NY Governer Linked to Prostitution Ring

[Scooter]

"Gov. Eliot Spitzer, the crusading politician who built his career on rooting out corruption, apologized Monday after he was accused of involvement in a prostitution ring. He did not elaborate on the scandal, which drew calls for his resignation.

His stoic wife at his side, Spitzer told reporters at a hastily called news conference: "I have acted in a way that violates my obligations to my family."

"I have disappointed and failed to live up to the standard I expected of myself," he said. "I must now dedicate some time to regain the trust of my family."

Spitzer's involvement in the ring was caught on a federal wiretap as part of an investigation opened in recent months, according to a law enforcement official who spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity because of the ongoing inquiry.

The New York Democrat, identified in legal papers as "Client 9," met last month with at least one woman in a Washington hotel, the law enforcement official said"

God, I love corruption busting politicians who get busted hooking up. I guess his plan for giving illegals drivers licenses has suffered a set back.

[Sponsored Links]

[kate42]

I guess his plan for giving illegals drivers licenses has suffered a set back

:lol1: :lol1:

[Rd Tile]

Client #9 must resign. :D

$5500 an hr. for you know what, glad my tax money is going for something worth while, what a jerk. :bang: :shake:

[flatfloor]

Only reason he got caught is he listed her as a dependant. :blah: :uhh:

[HS345]

“My slogan last year was ‘Bring some passion back to Albany,’ and I believed it then and I believe it now,” Mr. Spitzer said in an interview on Wednesday at his Manhattan office.
From an Oct. 2007 article.

Gotta give him credit for actually living up to a campaign slogan. :D

Nothing like a little poetic justice. eh?

[kate42]

$5500 an hr. for you know what,

Seriously, how can "you know what" be worth that? :rolleyes:

I just don't get it.

All kidding aside, I really feel sorry for his wife. She looked so sick standing by "her man". :shake:

Greg

Passion. What a crock of s.... :D

[ceramictec]

the FBI has some good wire taps, cant wait to hear them on the news when they are released.

they said...Larry Craig's definitely a misdemeanor to this easily...lol

[Lazarus]

(From the Brochure)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Emperors' Club vip is the most preferred international social introduction service for those accustomed to excellence. Introducing the most impressive models to leading gentleman of the world is our expertise. We specialize in introductions of: fashion models, pageant winners and exquisite students, graduates and women of successful careers (finance, art, media etc...) to gentlemen of exceptional standards. When seeking an evening date, a weekend travel companion, or a friend to accompany you during your next business / social function our models are perfect preference.

We act for a select group of educated, refined and successful international clients who give their best in all they do and who, in return, only wish to receive the best. Catering to clients who will not compromise in any area of their life...

Our meticulous standards of beauty, intelligence and charm ensure that you always encounter the quality you've come to expect in a woman, when with an Emperors' Club vip model. Each of our companions is a product of an exceptionally fine background and a success in her right. All rendezvous are individually crafted to suit the needs of your specific occasion. Note that each model has place in her schedule for a select number of appointments per month, so your date will be a special one for both of you.

Our goal is to make life more peaceful, balanced, beautiful and meaningful. We honor commitment to our clients as we covet long-term relationships of trust and mutual benefit. Experience for yourself a service of obvious distinction..."

[Bonus]

"Emperors' Club vip is the most preferred international social introduction service for those accustomed to excellence. Introducing the most impressive models to leading gentleman of the world is our expertise. We specialize in introductions of: fashion models, pageant winners and exquisite students, graduates and women of successful careers (finance, art, media etc...) to gentlemen of exceptional standards. When seeking an evening date, a weekend travel companion, or a friend to accompany you during your next business / social function our models are perfect preference.

We act for a select group of educated, refined and successful international clients who give their best in all they do and who, in return, only wish to receive the best. Catering to clients who will not compromise in any area of their life...

Our meticulous standards of beauty, intelligence and charm ensure that you always encounter the quality you've come to expect in a woman, when with an Emperors' Club vip model. Each of our companions is a product of an exceptionally fine background and a success in her right. All rendezvous are individually crafted to suit the needs of your specific occasion. Note that each model has place in her schedule for a select number of appointments per month, so your date will be a special one for both of you.

Our goal is to make life more peaceful, balanced, beautiful and meaningful. We honor commitment to our clients as we covet long-term relationships of trust and mutual benefit. Experience for yourself a service of obvious distinction..." ...and a good boinking.

[Jim Farrell Tiler]

$5500 a hour's not bad money where do i sign up for that :yeah: :drool2:

[Dave Taylor]

where do i sign up for that
Uh..... Jim! :shake:

[Westie]

Laz and Rich : did you just happen to have the brochure lying around? :uhh: :lol1:

[ceramictec]

NEW YORK - As Gov. Eliot Spitzer faced mounting calls to resign amid a prostitution scandal, a law enforcement official said Tuesday that the governor first came under suspicion because of cash payments from several bank accounts to an account operated by a call-girl ring.

Spitzer was the initial target of the investigation and was tracked using court-ordered wiretaps that appear to have recorded him arranging for a prostitute to meet him at a Washington hotel in mid-February, the official said.

http://i32.tinypic.com/8wf6u1.jpg

[Lazarus]

Uh....what, er....who, Me? :yeah:

[Scooter]

She's got a lot of guts standing up with him. I know my wife wouldn't do it.

[ddmoit]

I guess guts is one word for it. Personally, I think she's still in shock, and may live to regret her decision on that day.

What I find shocking is how many people seem completely surprised that a politician who rose to the level of governor could be such a scum bag. I'm always surprised when they're not.

He may have been above the law in the State of New York, but not at the Federal level. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that a Gambino family member pulled in a favor from a Federal stooge on the Gambino payroll.

Here's a question that you won't see asked: Why is prostitution a federal crime? After all, it was a federal wiretap that busted him.

Any of you living here in the land of the free who regularly make large cash withdrawals from your bank are under the very same scrutiny as this sap. It's the kind of power that past totalitarian regimes could only dream of. Your bank is an agent of the government, so behave yourselves.

[flatfloor]

Dan, he hasn't been charged with anything yet.

It wasn't prostitution that rang the bell it was a money laundering alarm that went off in a bank. They followed the money and that's where it went.

[ddmoit]

Dan, he hasn't been charged with anything yet.And, he may never be. Being a scum bag is not against the law, and it certainly doesn't preclude someone from being governor.

In a free society, why should a government be able to force a bank to report on the private transactions of a citizen?

I'm sure the answer leads to my next question: Why in a free society would someone launder money, and why should it be a crime?

[MudMaker]

I'm sorry .. I'm sorry ... I'm sorry.. Have to say it..
I thought Republicans were the only reprehensible politicians out there.
The press has already try'd to spin it as being OK to hire a prostitute
Hey, fellas.... it's racketeering not hiring a prostitute..
Boy, if the Republicans don't get off their collective ass's and do something about this one, they deserve to lose the election
Foley just EMAILED a page - remember???

Hey, just noticed my Son changed his logo.. Looks nice

[Scooter]

I don't mean to imply that he did anything wrong or should be charged. Personally I think the fact that the guy hooked up with a really expensive cute call girl is his business. This wouldn't make the front page in Europe. Christine, his call girl, sure looked pretty in the pictures I've seen, at least from the neck down. This is one smokin' hot babe.

Some Americans are so provincial that the fact the guy gets a little strange you know what shocks the conscience. I'm with Dan, I'm surprised if he's not.

I don't see a crime here.

What I do see is personal behavior that may affect his electability in NY, but thats up the Voters. I'm not sure he should or will resign. I would doubt he could elected to Dog Catcher in the future.

[ddmoit]

Frank, do you really want to make this a Republican vs. Democrat issue? Because that's exactly what the folks in charge want you to do. The powers in both parties would love to distract the public with that nonsense to hide us from the fact that they're all in bed together, sapping us of the gains of our toil like a useless parasite.

Yeah, nice new logo.:D

[dl]

> I don't see a crime here.

Well it is a crime (one that I don't necessarily agree with), and a crime that Spitzer campaigned as fighting against and was putting people in jail for. So if nothing else it's the ultimate hypocrisy. Well maybe not the ultimate - that would have to go to gay bashing republicans who are gay themselves.

- DL

[flatfloor]

Why in a free society would someone launder money, and why should it be a crime?
Suppose you were a drug dealer or a terrorist?

Dan you rally need a stronger soap box. :)

[Scooter]

No question that he is an ass, and a hyprocrit.

Whether hooking up with a call girl (Spitzer) vs. having gay sex in public bathrooms (Craig) vs. soliciting sex with underage pages in Congress (Foley), having a paid mistress (Ghouiani), having a mixed race mistress (Jefferson), or having sex with lesser rank soldier (Eisenhower) or getting a bj in the White House (Clinton) is worse, I'll leave that to others to decide. But we are probably splitting hairs here.

[ddmoit]

Flat, there doesn't seem to be a shortage of terrorists, and there certainly isn't a shortage of drug dealers. So, what has forcing banks to become government snitches gotten us, except a more totalitarian government?

I get that some people don't mind living in a police state where their every move is tracked; I'm just not one of them. But, I'll join them in their prayers that only good people will be in charge of the government and that they'll only do good things with their ever increasing power.

[flatfloor]

there doesn't seem to be a shortage of terrorists, and there certainly isn't a shortage of drug dealers

How do you know?

[H2O Guy]

None of the articles on this actually stated he was paying with taxpayer funds?
Was he? Was he using his own money?

I can tell you this: This is only the tip of a very large iceberg! He surely is not the only one up to no good or acting in what we call an "unprofessional manner". This type of activity goes back to our founding fathers. We only get to hear about it once one of them slips up and gets nabbed. Years ago the media woudn't dare report on something of this nature. It would only be talked about behind closed doors.

[Scooter]

Pictoral of "The Girls:

http://wonkette.com/366083/a-pictorial-tour-of-the-emperors-club-ladies

Smokin Hot.

Probably hotter than Monica.

[mdanforth]

None of the articles on this actually stated he was paying with taxpayer funds?
Was he? Was he using his own money ?


Isn't his paycheck from taxpayer money? just splitting hairs here I suppose....

[SteveVB]

"Here's a question that you won't see asked: Why is prostitution a federal crime? After all, it was a federal wiretap that busted him. "

Prostitution per say isnt a federal crime, but there are some federal laws that do deal with transporting someone to another state for the purposes of prostitution (slavery laws etc) - the pending charges stem from the investigation of a money laundering investigation as I understand it. Why anyone in this day and age and as smart as Spitzer is purported to be would think that they can transfer sums of money offshore and back on with out raising questions is beyond me. (although maybe he learned something from some of those walls street cases he prosecuted) Smacks of arrogance- the type of arrogance that he persued up and down wall street when he was AG.
For a govenor to put himself in that position is beyond comprehension, and for some to excuse it is even more unfathomable- the leverage that could be used against him for all manners of state business is incredible.
it was probably hos own money I believe his family is well off- and he will get some family job when this all shakes out...

[Scooter]

Harvard Educated lawyer. He ought to find a private practice job easily, that pays better, for even better Ho's.

[Scooter]

Yeah, I know, I'm obsessed and having too much fun with this. Its not as good as Larry Craig, but still. Here's the Leno and Letter jokes:

"I've been thinking about something, do you think it's too soon to be hitting on Mrs. Eliot Spitzer?" --David Letterman

"The big, the new scandal breaking here in New York, Eliot Spitzer apparently involved in some kind of prostitution activities -- you know what that means?: Hookers. And right now, Spitzer is huddling with his advisers to develop a drinking problem." --David Letterman

"Did you happen to see the press conference, very dramatic. Eliot Spitzer was there, he had yellow crime scene tape draped around his pants, it was crazy." --David Letterman

"Here's what happened, it was one of those sting deals. And they caught Eliot Spitzer, Gov. Spitzer, with a wire, recording him soliciting a prostitute. And I'm thinking, 'Holy cow, we can't get Bin Laden, but we got Spitzer. We got Sptizer.'" --David Letterman

"But here's the lesson, ladies and gentlemen, this is why I always wear a fake mustache and pay cash." --David Letterman

Top 10 list of Eliot Spitzer Excuses:

10. “Oh come on, like you were never involved in a prostitution ring.”
9. “Hookers is fun.”
8. “Just trying to help the economy.”
7. “Have you ever been to Albany?”
6. “It’s part of my new MTV prank show, ‘Spitz’d.’”
5. “Haven’t been myself since Roy Scheider died.”
4. “Uh, tainted beef?”
3. “Whether it’s a hooker or your wife, you’re always paying for – you married fellas know what I’m talking about.”
2. “Wanted to be known as the Charlie Sheen of politics.”
1. “I thought Bill Clinton legalized this years ago.”

[MudMaker]

Frank, do you really want to make this a Republican vs. Democrat issue?

YES, It's a simple fact of life. The Democrats have been demonizing the Republicans since Lincoln in order to move votes in their favor. It's what the Democrats and Liberal Media do.
It's called search and destroy... Win at any cost.. Ole Larry had Libs salivating, now it's time for the damn so called Republicans to salivate..

Oh, I haveta add that I have no problem with Prostitution either- oldest profession and still goin strong...... :bow:

[Lazarus]

Yeah....but $5,000 an hour????? He shoulda' called 'Ole Bill.......he would have set him up for free!

[Skeeball]

At least our Governor is not Gay :)

[Rd Tile]

He'll wish he was once they lock him up. :lol1:

[MudMaker]

At least our Governor is not Gay
That sounds like a good campaign slogan, wonder if it will catch on?

[Scooter]

Richie, you made me laugh today. Thanks.

Frank you are such a demonizing demogue, really. You seem to view the world in blues and reds, with the blue Democrats doing everything evil in the world, second only to OBL, and that the Republicans do nothing but good. I don't think the world is that simple.

[kate42]

[QUOTE=FrankThat sounds like a good campaign slogan, wonder if it will catch on?[/QUOTE]

I suppose that may depend on one's gender preference. :)

[sandbagger]

I don't see a crime here. all you gotta do is look, but not at the sex stuff. The manner in which he moved rather large sums of money around to hide the source is a violation of several Federal laws. Two ironies here: 1) it was a Democrat President (Clinton) who signed the laws, and 2) these are exactly the same laws that Spitzer used many times to bring down his own targets. :lol1:

None of the articles on this actually stated he was paying with taxpayer funds?
Was he? Was he using his own money? Spitzer is wealthy - seriously wealthy thanks to his father.

[kilroy]

it's all just a dog and pony show. kind of has me wondering what real news is getting buried by this crap.

[ceramictec]

just found something funny about this all.

Spitzer was for the Patriot Act and he was actually doomed by it.

he was moving large sums of money also around to various shell corporation and the bank made a few SAR's "Suspicious Activity Reports" to the IRS, which led to wire taps and then to where we are now......how ironic....lol

[jvcstone]

it's all just a dog and pony show. kind of has me wondering what real news is getting buried by this crap.

Nice to see that someone else has noticed. The big news being hidden behind the smoke and mirrors is the "early retirement" (read firing) of Adm. Fallon--the head of Central command and Petraeus' boss amongst other things. He has repeatedly counseled caution and diplomacy in dealing with Iran, and became a real burr under GW"s saddle. (or would that be Cheney's saddle???)

JVC

[ceramictec]

CNN Breaking News

-- New York Gov. Eliot Spitzer today announced his resignation after allegations of his involvement in a prostitution ring.

[Scooter]

:topicoff:

Spitzer (what a name, especially by one who wanted the call girls to perform unsafe sex, but I guess its better that Swallower) resigned today. That is the honorable thing to do.

He's done. Maybe he can work for Wall Street. :)

Larry Craig remains in office. :shake:

[HS345]

Okay, let me see if I am understanding some of you correctly.

Are you saying that the Governor of New York being busted for his involvement in a prostitution ring is NOT big news? This is smoke and mirrors? THE GOVERNOR OF NEW YORK?!!!!!! YGBFKM! The man just resigned the GOVERNORSHIP OF NEW YORK STATE!

I am not sure which news outlets you all are paying attention to, but I have heard about Admiral Fallon's "early retirement" ad nauseum. :scratch:

I wonder what the reaction would be if a Republican Governor was caught up in the same situation.

[HS345]

Who woulda thought the democrats would schtupp so low?

[Scooter]

I don't view the issue as Democrat vs. Republican like you and Frank, e.g., all things Republican are good, all things Democratic are evil, and all the media is controlled by the Democrats. If your view is that simple, that may be more of a reflection of a simplistic analytical mind rather than reality.

The bottom line is this news event will be covered to death. Americans love the "fall from grace" story, e.g., Britany, Larry Craig, Ted Haggart, Rep. Foley, Nixon, Clinton, etc etc.

I happen to agree with John that it like Brittany is not real news. It is certainly fun, though, and I am enjoying it.

[HS345]

Scoot, You callin' me simple. :mad: Well, join the club. :D

Actually, it was a joke. Schtupp. Get it? :lol1:

I do think the repubs should make hay, and milk this for all it's worth though. Whatever it takes to keep the Marxist, socialist, commies out of the oral, er, oval orifice.

[Scooter]

Simple analysis. Not a simple mind. I don't believe you are a stupid person.

He resigned, so the issue is probably dead or won't last past next week.

[SteveVB]

Not real news? - A govenor, one of THE most powerful people in New York, one of the most powerful guys on Wall Street the last decade, known around the world for his Wall Street investigations and its not news? You guys need to get out from under what ever rock is blocking the light. Republican, Demoncrat it doestn matter. A law upholder who broke the very laws he was sworn to enforce, and when he was charged with enforcemtn stopped at basically nothing to go after who ever HE thought was in the wrong. Not news?
Unlike Craig(since he's been mentioned a few times) who broke the waving your hand in a restroom law, and was savaged for something of little substance, heavy on circumstance, the accusations about Spitzer don't get much more concrete. This story wont disappear too quickly- there are too many consequences in the state and on Wall Street, plus he was # 9 who were #1-8 and #10-? the list will be out...

If disbarred (not sure how a laywer practices when confronted with a felony) he wont be working for any big law firm, but will probably do something in realestate-(family money I believe).

[jvcstone]

I tend to question the Orwellian nature of these "structuring Laws" most of which have come about since 9-11 as part of the constitutional dismantling known as the Patriot Act, and subsequent anti American laws and directives.

I move money around in the "suspect" amounts on a regular basis-account to account, and bank to bank. It's my money, and who is this government that can watch over all those transactions as if moving my own money around is illegal. Certainly not the American government we are lead to believe in. 1984 is only 25 years behind schedual, but it's pulling into the station now.

Admittedly, the hiring of an escort of that nature breaks the laws in some places (but not all), but how is that a federal crime worthy of this level of scrutiny??? At most a misdemeanor, nothing more, and personally, I don't think the Mann act can be used since the young lady gladly took the trip herself.

As for Adm Fallon--He was a senior officer willing to speak truth to power, no matter the personal cost, and several months ago he said that an invasion of Iran would not happen on his watch. After all, he would have have been the one to give the orders for the planes and missiles to launch. It is perfectly acceptable, and in fact required, that the constitution be protected from enemies without and within, and if the Commander in chief orders unconstitutional action, it is the senior military that need to prevent such action from happening. During the Nixon melt down, a TWX went out from the joint Chiefs to every installation commander reminding them of just that.

The fact that Spitzer diddled an expensive date or three has no significance in the grand sceme of things what so ever. The fact that the Bush administration continues to stifle dissenting voices in anticipation of another preemptive war, and international power grab is big news and should be foremost in the minds of the American people. Beware the coming "national emergency" and presidential directive 51 being activated. That's when that 1984 train will have arrived.

JVC

[ddmoit]

I wish you were wrong, John.

[HS345]

The fact that Spitzer diddled an expensive date or three has no significance in the grand sceme of things what so ever.
The fact that the Governor of New York, who is also the former atty general of New York, broke the very laws that he himself has used to aggressively go after political foes, has no significance? If you say so. :rolleyes:

John, have you ever been harmed by the Patriot Act?

If the 1984 train ever does pull into the station, it won't be the repubs wearing the injuneer hat.

Any guesses as to what she's thinking in this pic?

[ddmoit]

John, have you ever been harmed by the Patriot Act?It's hard for someone to know if they've been snooped on or not, or if some kind of trouble is brewing.

And, if John did know the answer to that question, it may be illegal for him to answer it.

Under the Patriot Act, your property can be searched and seized without your knowledge, and if you happen to find out, you are not allowed to reveal such information - not even to your spouse or legal representation. If your spouse finds out that you are the subject of a search, he/she is prohibited from revealing that information to you.

This is not the country of our founders.

[jvcstone]

I wish you were wrong, John.

Dan,
This is one time I really do hope to be proven wrong--for my grandkids sake.

Unfortunately, the evidence seems to be stacked in the other direction.

JVC

[ceramictec]

I read body language really good.
I took martial arts for a long time and I think reading someone's body
language is a major thing.
there are people out there that do just this to leading people in the news.

I noticed that he was tightening his mouth a lot and making faces during the conference,
he was nervous and it's a sure tell sign he is guilty and knows he is screwed.
http://i29.tinypic.com/29xfara.jpghttp://i25.tinypic.com/2hsb0qg.jpg

also noticed that when they held hands his wife didn't grip him firmly,
they were actually barley touching, and the hold was short lived.
so she is pretty much pissed !!
http://i32.tinypic.com/j92cub.jpghttp://i28.tinypic.com/16j28le.jpg


also her look was blank the full time and really didn't want to be there.

[HS345]

One possibility.

[John Bridge]

I'm not that John, but yes, I have been harmed, and so has every other citizen of this country. Our God-given rights have been abridged, and this is contrary to "Nature's Law" and the Constitution of the United States.

I don't have to justify having those rights; I was born with them. A portion of them has been taken away by men who are no more competent, and probably less so, than I am. I did not vote to give up my rights or a portion of them for the good of the "cause." Nobody asked me. I was not consulted.

Yes, I have been harmed exceedingly and irreparably. It doesn't help to know that I have allowed it to happen.

[dl]

The surprising thing is that it's the right wing nut jobs that are championing these loss of basic rights - you'd think they'd be the most against it.

Where's the ACLU when we need them?

- DL

[MudMaker]

Post # 57 - He looks like that guy in the Bitter Beer commercial..

[tilerite]

Whether hooking up with a call girl (Spitzer) vs. having gay sex in public bathrooms (Craig) vs. soliciting sex with underage pages in Congress (Foley), having a paid mistress (Ghouiani), having a mixed race mistress (Jefferson), or having sex with lesser rank soldier (Eisenhower) or getting a bj in the White House (Clinton) is worse, I'll leave that to others to decide. But we are probably splitting hairs here.

I love when people rationalize bad behavior by comparing it to other bad behavior. The man is a scumbag for cheating on his wife, a hypocrite for engaging in the very thing he crusaded against and according to my interpretation of the law, a common criminal. There is no valid excuse for betraying your family and your constituents who obviously had trusted that he would hold to a higher standard.

The bottom line is this news event will be covered to death. Americans love the "fall from grace" story, e.g., Britany, Larry Craig, Ted Haggart, Rep. Foley, Nixon, Clinton, etc etc.

Anyone who gets off on this sort of thing should seek help. I won't speak for others but I find nothing amusing about it. Its sad.

happen to agree with John that it like Brittany is not real news.

Are you serious? Brittney has serious mental health issues, but the ramifications of her actions are nowhere near as far reaching as what Spitzer, a public servant, not an entertainer, has done.

It is certainly fun, though, and I am enjoying it.

See above.

[MudMaker]

If your view is that simple, that may be more of a reflection of a simplistic analytical mind rather than reality.
Scoot,
In all too many instances "Perception IS Reality"
Recently the Media has been falling over themselves to bring to the forefront the Perception that the Republicans are the Corrupt party, but it looks like they haven't succeeded because these guys keep poppin up from both sides...
and Scoot.. If you're sayin that the Media is not one sided.. that is simplistic :lol1:

[sandbagger]

Patriot Act? C'mon guys, do your homework. The laws they've got Spitzer on have been around for a loooooong time. The Mann act (interstate transport) goes back 100 years. The ones on reporting large sums of cash go back to the 80s - designed to catch drug trafickers.

I'm generally not a big fan of Slate, but occasionally they get it right.

http://www.slate.com/id/2186345/

[dl]

Patriot Act? C'mon guys, do your homework. The laws they've got Spitzer on have been around for a loooooong time.

No one said it was law of the PA that he violated but rather that it was the SARs reporting requirement that snagged him. His activity would likely have not been detected had it not been for the Patriot Act.

- DL

[sandbagger]

Don, you're just wrong on that. The Feds have been tracking this kind of stuff for 20 years, and using it to catch bad guys. Spitzer himself was using the same laws to bring down his targets well before the Patriot Act. The Slate piece I linked is fairly short and concise, with links to the statutes. I know you folks like to find ways to bash the Patriot Act, but this dog don't hunt. :shake:

[dl]

I know you folks like to find ways to bash the Patriot Act, but this dog don't hunt.

You may be right Art, the info is a bit sparse - but this doesn't change the fact that the Patriot Act was an unnecessary piece of legislation that revoked some of our basic rights and was a step towards fascism. We someone made it through many other threats including the cold war with communism without needing it although McCarthyism came close.

- DL

[HS345]

We someone made it through many other threats including the cold war with communism without needing it although McCarthyism came close.
Funny thing is, turns out McCarthy was right.

I have a question for all of you who are opposed to the Patriot Act. What methodology would you use to protect us from Islamofacism? This is not a rhetorical question, I want to know, in detail, what you would have our leaders do to combat this threat.

[Scooter]

Elect Ron Paul
Adopt Most of His Platform
Stop Pre-Emptive Wars
Secure the Borders
Inspect Every Cargo Container
Install Computer Tracking of Visas
Use Diplomacy as First Option, Instead of Last, in Foreign Relations
Use FISA not Roberto Gonzalez
Listen to Generals (Patreus and That Navy Guy Who is Head of the Mideast)
Accept the Fact That We Can Not Protect Everyone Everytime from Every Threat
Pay as You Go--Let the People Decide if a $500b expenditure is worth it

What Not To Do:

War is the First Answer for International Problems
Hire Roberto Gonzalez
Use Iran Contra Guys to Run CIA and NSA
Let a VP Run the War--Ignore the Generals
Declare the War is Won Before It Is
Bankrupt the Country
Spy on Our Own Citizens without a Warrant
Torture
Cover Up

[HS345]

No offense Scooter, but you sound like a liberal talking points memo.

Some of your method would be unconstitutional, some of it we are already doing, much of the rest is just plain BS.

I do like the, secure the borders, idea though. :idea:

[Scooter]

Whats unconstitutional?

[HS345]

Pay as You Go--Let the People Decide if a $500b expenditure is worth it
There is no constitutional provision, that I am aware of, that allows the people to make expenditure decisions about wars. Contrary to popular belief, The United States of America is not a democracy.

Accept the Fact That We Can Not Protect Everyone Everytime from Every Threat
It is the President's sworn duty to protect every citizen of The United States from every threat, both foreign and domestic.

[dl]

It is the President's sworn duty to protect every citizen of The United States from every threat, both foreign and domestic.

It is also his sworn duty to uphold the Constitution of the United States, not circumvent it.

- DL

[HS345]

Agreed! :)

[jvcstone]

Funny, I thought that it was the presidents duty to protect the constitution from all enemies both foreign and domestic.

If the constitution had been followed, congress would have been required to declare the war, and since congress is supposedly the voice of the people, the war should have been unfunded after the 06 elections.

I wonder how McCarthy was right??? If memory serves me, 1000's of people had their lives and careers destroyed by an insane red scare, lead by a power hungry maniac. Very similar to this islamofascist scare today. There isn't any such thing--made up by those who want to keep our country in a continuous state of war. Good for their profit margins, and that's the only thing it is good for. Sure there are terrorist organizations out there--always have been and always will. Can't beat them until you address the reasons for each different groups willingness to fight, and that doesn't happen at the end of a rifle barrel. 9-11 was the result of the total ineptitude of an out of control federal bureaucracy. It's not like we were taken by surprise--the warnings had been coming in from all over the globe for many weeks prior if not months. For some reason, we just weren't all that concerned--probably because George was too busy playing cowboy and making life generally miserable for the citizens of Crawford.

We follow out the current logic to it's inevitable conclusion we leave our country in financial ruin for our grandchildren to deal with. Just take a look at the results of all these wars against ideology we are prone to fighting, and tell us which of them has been brought to a successful conclusion.

War on poverty--been going on for 40 years now, and there are still families working 3 jobs and having a hard time keeping their heads above water. Meanwhile, our infrastructure is falling apart cause we don't have any money to put into it. Well, how could we, when we have the largest "defense" budget by far, and support suspect governments around the world with obscenely large welfare payments

War on Drugs -- 30 years, and drugs are just as plentiful and less expensive today than 30 years ago. We do have the largest inmate population (1 in 99 adults) in the "free" world as a result, and the police state has been able to grow by leaps and bounds. Notice how we are all being conditioned to kneel to the absolute authority the various law enforcement agencies are taking upon themselves.

War on Terror-- well seems to me, we turned our focus away from going after the organization probably responsible for 9-11, and turned to "nation building" in the oil rich gulf--something most of the Bush administration were determined to do even before there was a Bush administration. Meanwhile, Al Qaeda seems to be doing just fine, and growing. Of course thats the boogeyman we need to keep another never ending and totally unwinnable war chugging along. Had Bin Laden been captured or killed (is he still really alive??) before 2001 was out, how could you all justify nearly a decade of continuous war?? Personally, I find it rather odd that every time the administration needed a little boost in public support, old Binladen would pop up with another tape release. But since I don't believe DC is ever truthful with the public, that's probably just me.

Not too many years ago, our forefathers fought for freedom from unrepresentative tyranny, How sad we are so willing to go back to that sort of government for no reason other than we are constantly told to be afraid. Our own federal (central state) government is our most potent enemy.

JVC

[jvcstone]

sorry for the hijack :topicoff:
JVC

[Scooter]

I think that IF the US had a pay as you go policy toward expenditures, then Congress would have to vote to either tax everyone $500b for the costs of the war and then we would find out if the costs of protection are worth it. Either tax the Citizens or get our of Iraq--pick one.

Thank God, if your boy gets elected or your buddy Obama, we are probably closing Gitmo next year. Only Hillary would keep it open.

[HS345]

I too, apologize for the hijack. But this cannot go unanswered.

McCarthy was correct. Here are just two articles that can explain it better than I can. One is actually an interview with M. Stanton Evans, author of "Blacklisted by History". Here (http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewPolitics.asp?Page=/Politics/archive/200711/POL20071107b.html) and here. (http://www.spongobongo.com/em/em9820.htm)

Turns out that your "red scare" had merit. And that fact is backed up by Soviet documentation.

Islamofacism is made up? So the altered skyline of New York city is just an illusion? Where is David Copperfield when you need him? You have absolutely GOT to be kidding me.

Bin Laden is nothing more than a figure head, kill him and there are ten more, ready, willing, and able to take his place. You can't negotiate with people that have stated that their ultimate goal is an Islamic Kalifate, you know, Sharia law. Maybe you've heard of it, it's been in all the papers. In fact, the end of a gun barrel is ALL these idiots will understand, and they have stated THAT as well. Anything less is perceived as weakness. Where would these negotiations start? "Please, oh please, Mr. Terrorist, don't kill me, I'll adhere to Sharia law, honest I will".

Why is it that when we are attacked by maniacal bums in filthy night shirts, the first reaction my many is to blame ourselves? Is it the fault of the Christians in Darfur, who are being literally slaughtered by fanatical muslims, just for being who they are? Well, by that logic, I guess it is.

[tilerite]

No offense Scooter, but you sound like a liberal talking points memo.


Ya think???

[jvcstone]

I stand by what I said, and others have said the same thing.
Cultural historian Richard Webster says:
"The idea that there is some kind of autonomous "Islamofascism" that can be crushed, or that the west may defend itself against the terrorists who threaten it by cultivating that eagerness to kill militant Muslims which Christopher Hitchens urges upon us, is a dangerous delusion. The symptoms that have led some to apply the label of "Islamofascism" are not reasons to forget root causes. They are reasons for us to examine even more carefully what those root causes actually are."

Newspaper columnist Joseph Sobran has said:
Islamofascism is nothing but an empty propaganda term. And wartime propaganda is usually, if not always, crafted to produce hysteria, the destruction of any sense of proportion. Such words, undefined and unmeasured, are used by people more interested in making us lose our heads than in keeping their own."

New York Times columnist Paul Krugman remarked that

"...there isn’t actually any such thing as Islamofascism — it’s not an ideology; it’s a figment of the neocon imagination. The term came into vogue only because it was a way for Iraq hawks to gloss over the awkward transition from pursuing Osama bin Laden, who attacked America, to Saddam Hussein, who didn’t."[26]

Conservative British historian Niall Ferguson states that:

…what we see at the moment is an attempt to interpret our present predicament in a rather caricatured World War II idiom. I mean, “Islamofascism” illustrates the point well, because it’s a completely misleading concept. In fact, there’s virtually no overlap between the ideology of al Qaeda and fascism. It’s just a way of making us feel that we’re the “greatest generation” fighting another World War, like the war our fathers and grandfathers fought. You’re translating a crisis symbolized by 9/11 into a sort of pseudo World War II. So, 9/11 becomes Pearl Harbor and then you go after the bad guys who are the fascists, and if you don’t support us, then you must be an appeaser. [27]

Security expert Daniel Benjamin of the Center for Strategic and International Studies claims the term was meaningless. "There is no sense in which jihadists embrace fascist ideology as it was developed by Mussolini or anyone else who was associated with the term," he said.[23]

American journalist Eric Margolis agreed: "There is nothing in any part of the Muslim World that resembles the corporate fascist states of western history. In fact, clan and tribal-based traditional Islamic society, with its fragmented power structures, local loyalties, and consensus decision-making, is about as far as possible from western industrial state fascism. The Muslim World is replete with brutal dictatorships, feudal monarchies, and corrupt military-run states, but none of these regimes, however deplorable, fits the standard definition of fascism. Most, in fact, are America’s allies."

JVC

[HS345]

Security expert Daniel Benjamin of the Center for Strategic and International Studies claims the term was meaningless. "There is no sense in which jihadists embrace fascist ideology as it was developed by Mussolini or anyone else who was associated with the term," he said.
American journalist Eric Margolis agreed: "There is nothing in any part of the Muslim World that resembles the corporate fascist states of western history. In fact, clan and tribal-based traditional Islamic society, with its fragmented power structures, local loyalties, and consensus decision-making, is about as far as possible from western industrial state fascism. The Muslim World is replete with brutal dictatorships, feudal monarchies, and corrupt military-run states, but none of these regimes, however deplorable, fits the standard definition of fascism. Most, in fact, are America’s allies."

In a word, hogwash. I am not going to post the obligatory Merriam Webster definition for fascism. It is clear to even the casual observer that you are splitting hairs. Frankly, you can call them whatever you want, that won't change their stated goal, the death of Western Civilization. Yes, I said STATED GOAL, stated by them, not me.

[Scooter]

Ron Paul is a Liberal. R i i i i ght. Them's fighting words in Texas, son.

I'm not familiar with the right wing lunitic Stanton Evan's works, but he is certainly no historian with any credibility. Although, he might be effective in a bar room argument, not historical facts. He an Ann Coulter sound like two peas in a pod. And with her Adams Apple, I think she's a guy, personally.

But, if your point is that the Soviet Union had spies in America, that Russia wanted to steal secrets and try to take over, and that McCathy was a patriot, most historians concede that point.

The real question is not the goals of the right wing, but the tactics. Like the current right wing lunitics, McCarthy used labels to humiliate his opponents or anyone who disagreed with him, calling other sentators as communists or communist supporters; accusing his opponents of homosexality; labeling Gen George Marshall as a traitor; and calling every adminsistration since 1930-1953 (which included Gen Eisenhower!)as traitors. It is ironic his counsel, Roy Cohn was homosexual. So, ahem, you'll forgive me if I don't agree with you that McCarthy was right. General Eisenhower and George Marshall were not traitors.

Of course, now today, the right wing lunitics label anyone against the so-called "war on terrorism" as a terrorist or traitor; they out CIA agents, they pack the US Attorney's office accusing the lawyers as being disloyal, and denounce homosexuality. One of the chief hatchet men was my personal favorite, Larry "I'm not Gay" Craig.

Not much has changed since 1957, has it?

[Scooter]

May I also add that I have been to three Muslem Countries multiple times. I plan another visit in another year or so. How many have you been to?

Lived with "them", ate with "them" and socialized with "them". For weeks.

"They" were not "islamic facists". "They" had no goal to destroy Western Civilization.

You need to get out more and watch less Fox News.

[HS345]

Hey there Scooter, I can appreciate your viewpoint more now that I know you have slept with the enemy. :D Just kidding.

Nowhere in my ramblings have I stated that ALL Muslims are fascists.

ACU Board member M. Stanton Evans is the Director of the National Journalism Center in Washington, D.C. Evans is also publisher of Consumers’ Research Magazine, Chairman of the Education and Research Institute, visiting professor of journalism at Troy State University, and a contributing editor and columnist for Human Events.

M. Stanton Evans graduated from Yale University in 1955, with a B.A. in English. He has done graduate work in economics at New York University and earned an Honorary Doctor of Laws from Syracuse University.

Evans served as chairman of ACU during the sixties and seventies. From 1960 to 1974, he also served as editor for the Indianapolis Star.

During the seventies and eighties, Evans worked as a syndicated columnist as well as a political commentator for Radio America and CBS Radio and Television. He is the author of many renowned books including Revolt on Campus, The Liberal Establishment, The Politics of Surrender, The Future of Conservatism, The Lawbreakers, Clear and Present Dangers, and The Theme is Freedom.

Yep, just your average bar patron with no credentials whatsoever. :rolleyes:

[tilerite]

Of course, now today, the right wing lunitics label anyone against the so-called "war on terrorism" as a terrorist or traitor;

You have some examples to backup that ridiculous statement??

[tilerite]

You need to get out more and watch less Fox News.

You need to get out more and watch less MSNBC.

[Scooter]

Sean Hennity
Rush Limbaugh
Ann Coulter
Oliver North

And their proxies, several Congressmen and Senators and talk show hosts.

Label people who disagree with their vision of the war on terror as traitors. I personally heard the diatribe guys on Fixed News.

Let me ask you this, before I embark on a research assignment, do you guys really dispute the fact that the above have, on occaision, called those who disagree with the Iraq war as traitors or treasonous? If you guys honestly dispute that fact, I'll pull it our for you.

Your move.

Oh, and by the way you said Nowhere in my ramblings have I stated that ALL Muslims are fascists. No, but you never qualified it either. You say Muslims, not some Muslims.

Finally, M. Stanton Evan is a political hack from that resume. Looks like he never had a single history class in his life, and is mainly a broadcaster and political hack. Yeah, he and Anne (Adams Apple) Coluter are definitely two peas in a pod. Dude, find a historian that supports that view with some credentials.

[MudMaker]

No, but you never qualified it either. You say Muslims, not some Muslims.
That's because ya never know who the embedded plants are. They may not even know until called upon to serve Allah :)

[Scooter]

Like the Manchurian Candidate?

Or are we talking plants like flowers?

[HS345]

C'mon Scooter, talk about labeling. You label anyone that doesn't agree with a radical Marxist, socialist, agenda as a right wing lunatic. :rolleyes: :shake:
You decry the Patriot Act as an affront to your freedom, while supporting radical leftists that would just as soon use The Constitution as so much toilet paper. :yawn:

Let me ask you this, before I embark on a research assignment, do you guys really dispute the fact that the above have, on occaision, called those who disagree with the Iraq war as traitors or treasonous? If you guys honestly dispute that fact, I'll pull it our for you.
Yeah, with the exception of Coulter, I challenge you to find even one quote from Hannity, Limbaugh, or Ollie North, in which they called anyone a traitor, or treasonous, on the basis that said person disagreed with the war in Iraq. And on that basis ALONE.

[SteveVB]

:bang: C'mon Scooter, talk about labeling. You label anyone that doesn't agree with a radical Marxist, socialist, agenda as a right wing lunatic.

:clap2: the irony has been wonderful... pointing it out wont matter though. You guys are like watching a demolition derby- no one gives in, no one changes, but back up and hit the gas, full speed ahead for another big crash. :bang:

Ok back to :corn:

[HS345]

Thanks for the compliment Steve. :yeah:

What was this thread about anyways? :scratch:

[kate42]

:topicoff: :topicoff: :topicoff: :topicoff: :topicoff: :topicoff:

Without counting how many posts, you "Gentleman" are way :topicoff: http://www.millan.net/minimations/smileys/cloversmileyb.gif (http://www.millan.net)

[sandbagger]

Kate - you're right about the hijack, but I can't let this pass
Sean Hennity
Rush Limbaugh
Ann Coulter
Oliver North

And their proxies, several Congressmen and Senators and talk show hosts.

Label people who disagree with their vision of the war on terror as traitors. BULL****, Scooter. That's an outrageous accusation that I'm absolutely positive you can't prove. Granted, Coulter's trademark is saying some pretty crazy things, but she's also pretty careful. If anything, she may have called someone's ACTS "traitorous," but not the person. (I admit I am less informed about Coulter than the others.)

Coulter aside, I am very familiar with the others you mention and they take great pains to make it clear that they are NOT calling people unAmerican. Frankly, I think they're too careful when it comes to people like Murtha who wrongly accuse Marines of murder (they've all been cleared).

you want "un-American," Scooter? How about Harry Reid trying to using political pressure to get Clear Channel to silence Rush? You remember that one, don't you? The letter that Rush turned into a $4.2 MILLION contribution to a scholarship fund for children of fallen Marines (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/19/AR2007101902667.html) :stick:

If you're so sure of this outrage, how about a link, Scooter?

[tilerite]

Sean Hennity
Rush Limbaugh
Ann Coulter
Oliver North

Rush Limbaugh? Ann Coulter? This is who use for your material? Thats like me saying "the far left lunatics are calling Bush a terrorist: and when you ask me who my sources are, I give you; Al Franken. There's something missing if you need to use the most extreme faction of the right, to make your points. Those who think for themselves, do not take anything that people like Limbaugh, Coulter or Al Franken say, seriously.

[sgrandjean]

I often wonder why the extreme left consistently quotes Fox News and cites them as extremists. I don't see too many references to right wingers mentioning CNN, the broadcast networks and several radio stations as the cause of all political ills in this great country.

Sean Hennity
Rush Limbaugh
Ann Coulter
Oliver North

Sure would be nice if you learned how to spell. As much as I dislike Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, I don't bother with a play on words when I refer to them on the forums.

Cheers.

[Scooter]

do not take anything that people like Limbaugh, Coulter or Al Franken say, seriously. I knew we could agree on something. :) I don't see too many references to right wingers mentioning CNN, the broadcast networks and several radio stations as the cause of all political ills in this great country Stick around, Art, Greg or Rick will bring it soon.she may have called someone's ACTS "traitorous," but not the person Thats a distinction without a difference.

But seriously, back to the thread, (yeah I know, the thread jack was sure fun, wasn't it?)

Reports are today that Spitzer spent $80,000 on payments to the Emperors Club. Oh my God! What a horn dog.

[HS345]

Woah, hold on there Scooter. Where's all those "Hennity" and Rush quotes you were gonna dig up for us?..........................That's what
I thought.

[dl]

> McCarthy was correct.

Well, he was to a degree. There were spys feeding info to the Soviets, most notable Klaus Fuchs, maybe 200 in all.

But McCarthy, the FBI, and right-wingers went way overboard. Among other things:
- child labor laws were a communist plot
- women suffrage was a communist plot
- Social Security was a communist plot
- "It's a Wonderful Life" was communist propaganda (according to the FBI)
- more generally many conservatives considered Roosevelt's New Deal a communist plot as well as laws strengthening labor unions

The FBI used a lot of the same illegal tactics being used now including burglaries, opening mail, illegal wiretaps, planting forged documents, spreading rumors, leaks to the press, etc. Hoover was pissed because the Supreme Court kept shutting him down.

You want quotes? How about
It is now evident that the present Administration has fully embraced, for political advantage, McCarthyism. I am not referring to the Senator from Wisconsin. He is only important in that his name has taken on the dictionary meaning of the word. It is the corruption of truth, the abandonment of the due process law. It is the use of the big lie and the unfounded accusation against any citizen in the name of Americanism or security. It is the rise to power of the demagogue who lives on untruth; it is the spreading of fear and the destruction of faith in every level of society.
We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. We must remember always that accusation is not proof and that conviction depends upon evidence and due process of law. We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason, if we dig deep in our history and our doctrine, and remember that we are not descended from fearful men.
...we must condemn the practice of imputing a sinister meaning to the exercise of a person's constitutional right under the Fifth Amendment.
The mere summoning of a witness and compelling him to testify, against his will, about his beliefs, expressions or associations is a measure of governmental interference. And when those forced revelations concern matters that are unorthodox, unpopular, or even hateful to the general public, the reaction in the life of the witness may be disastrous.

It wasn't that communism wasn't a threat, it's that McCarthy turned it into a witch hunt and campaign of fear and the lives of 10's of thousands of innocent people were adversely affected.

- DL

[kate42]

:topicoff: :topicoff: :topicoff: :topicoff:

[sandbagger]

sorry, Kate - just shows how boring the Spitzer thing has become.

[Theold--scottyb]

We should really be talking about why the IRS is spending 42 million dollars sending out letters letting you know your getting a refund soon, and not this crap..

[tilerite]

Yeah, ya got that right.

[HS345]

With all due respect Scotty and Rick, :tongue: :D

[MudMaker]

We should really be talking about why the IRS is spending 42 million dollars sending out letters letting you know your getting a refund soon, and not this crap.."FAIR TAX"

[Theold--scottyb]

Greg, your starting to spit :twitch:

Not even talking about fair tax.. Instead of them spending 42 million on letters and stamps, why not divide that up and pay a bigger return to the people?

[MudMaker]

why not divide that up and pay a bigger return to the people?
That's what I'm talkin about - it's OUR money they are returning.. They shouldn't have had it in the first place..
Fair Tax

[kate42]

http://www.millan.net/minimations/smileys/signs/yikes.gif (http://www.millan.net)

:topicoff: :topicoff: :topicoff: :topicoff: :topicoff: :topicoff:

http://www.millan.net/minimations/toolminis/text_hugtextw.gif (http://www.millan.net)

[MudMaker]

Hell, We've gotten off the path so many times I've forgotten why we drained the swamp... :lol1:

But, the new guy is a hoot... :)

[kilroy]

http://www.gregpalast.com/elliot-spitzer-gets-nailed/

The $200 billion bail-out for predator banks and Spitzer charges are intimately linked

By Greg Palast

While New York Governor Eliot Spitzer was paying an ‘escort’ $4,300 in a hotel room in Washington, just down the road, George Bush’s new Federal Reserve Board Chairman, Ben Bernanke, was secretly handing over $200 billion in a tryst with mortgage bank industry speculators.

Both acts were wanton, wicked and lewd. But there’s a BIG difference. The Governor was using his own checkbook. Bush’s man Bernanke was using ours.

This week, Bernanke’s Fed, for the first time in its history, loaned a selected coterie of banks one-fifth of a trillion dollars to guarantee these banks’ mortgage-backed junk bonds. The deluge of public loot was an eye-popping windfall to the very banking predators who have brought two million families to the brink of foreclosure.

Up until Wednesday, there was one single, lonely politician who stood in the way of this creepy little assignation at the bankers’ bordello: Eliot Spitzer.

Who are they kidding? Spitzer’s lynching and the bankers’ enriching are intimately tied.

How? Follow the money.

The press has swallowed Wall Street’s line that millions of US families are about to lose their homes because they bought homes they couldn’t afford or took loans too big for their wallets. Ba-LON-ey. That’s blaming the victim.

Here’s what happened. Since the Bush regime came to power, a new species of loan became the norm, the ‘sub-prime’ mortgage and its variants including loans with teeny “introductory” interest rates. From out of nowhere, a company called ‘Countrywide’ became America’s top mortgage lender, accounting for one in five home loans, a large chunk of these ‘sub-prime.’

Here’s how it worked: The Grinning Family, with US average household income, gets a $200,000 mortgage at 4% for two years. Their $955 monthly payment is 25% of their income. No problem. Their banker promises them a new mortgage, again at the cheap rate, in two years. But in two years, the promise ain’t worth a can of spam and the Grinnings are told to scram - because their house is now worth less than the mortgage. Now, the mortgage hits 9% or $1,609 plus fees to recover the “discount” they had for two years. Suddenly, payments equal 42% to 50% of pre-tax income. The Grinnings move into their Toyota.

Now, what kind of American is ‘sub-prime.’ Guess. No peeking. Here’s a hint: 73% of HIGH INCOME Black and Hispanic borrowers were given sub-prime loans versus 17% of similar-income Whites. Dark-skinned borrowers aren’t stupid – they had no choice. They were ‘steered’ as it’s called in the mortgage sharking business.

‘Steering,’ sub-prime loans with usurious kickers, fake inducements to over-borrow, called ‘fraudulent conveyance’ or ‘predatory lending’ under US law, were almost completely forbidden in the olden days (Clinton Administration and earlier) by federal regulators and state laws as nothing more than fancy loan-sharking.

But when the Bush regime took over, Countrywide and its banking brethren were told to party hearty – it was OK now to steer’m, fake’m, charge’m and take’m.

But there was this annoying party-pooper. The Attorney General of New York, Eliot Spitzer, who sued these guys to a fare-thee-well. Or tried to.

Instead of regulating the banks that had run amok, Bush’s regulators went on the warpath against Spitzer and states attempting to stop predatory practices. Making an unprecedented use of the legal power of “federal pre-emption,” Bush-bots ordered the states to NOT enforce their consumer protection laws.

Indeed, the feds actually filed a lawsuit to block Spitzer’s investigation of ugly racial mortgage steering. Bush’s banking buddies were especially steamed that Spitzer hammered bank practices across the nation using New York State laws.

Spitzer not only took on Countrywide, he took on their predatory enablers in the investment banking community. Behind Countrywide was the Mother Shark, its funder and now owner, Bank of America. Others joined the sharkfest: Goldman Sachs, Merrill Lynch and Citigroup’s Citibank made mortgage usury their major profit centers. They did this through a bit of financial legerdemain called “securitization.”

What that means is that they took a bunch of junk mortgages, like the Grinning's, loans about to go down the toilet and re-packaged them into “tranches” of bonds which were stamped “AAA” - top grade - by bond rating agencies. These gold-painted turds were sold as sparkling safe investments to US school district pension funds and town governments in Finland (really).

When the housing bubble burst and the paint flaked off, investors were left with the poop and the bankers were left with bonuses. Countrywide’s top man, Angelo Mozilo, will ‘earn’ a $77 million buy-out bonus this year on top of the $656 million - over half a billion dollars – he pulled in from 1998 through 2007.

But there were rumblings that the party would soon be over. Angry regulators, burned investors and the weight of millions of homes about to be boarded up were causing the sharks to sink. Countrywide’s stock was down 50%, and Citigroup was off 38%, not pleasing to the Gulf sheiks who now control its biggest share blocks.

Then, on Wednesday of this week, the unthinkable happened. Carlyle Capital went bankrupt. Who? That’s Carlyle as in Carlyle Group. James Baker, Senior Counsel. Notable partners, former and past: George Bush, the Bin Laden family and more dictators, potentates, pirates and presidents than you can count.

The Fed had to act. Bernanke opened the vault and dumped $200 billion on the poor little suffering bankers. They got the public treasure – and got to keep the Grinning’s house. There was no ‘quid’ of a foreclosure moratorium for the ‘pro quo’ of public bailout. Not one family was saved – but not one banker was left behind.

Every mortgage sharking operation shot up in value. Mozilo’s Countrywide stock rose 17% in one day. The Citi sheiks saw their company’s stock rise $10 billion in an afternoon.

And that very same day the bail-out was decided – what a coinkydink! – the man called, ‘The Sheriff of Wall Street’ was cuffed. Spitzer was silenced.

Do I believe the banks called Justice and said, “Take him down today!” Naw, that’s not how the system works. But the big players knew that unless Spitzer was taken out, he would create enough ruckus to spoil the party. Headlines in the financial press – one was “Wall Street Declares War on Spitzer” - made clear to Bush’s enforcers at Justice who their number one target should be. And it wasn’t Bin Laden.

It was the night of February 13 when Spitzer made the bone-headed choice to order take-out in his Washington Hotel room. He had just finished signing these words for the Washington Post about predatory loans:

“Not only did the Bush administration do nothing to protect consumers, it embarked on an aggressive and unprecedented campaign to prevent states from protecting their residents from the very problems to which the federal government was turning a blind eye.”

Bush, Spitzer said right in the headline, was the “Predator Lenders’ Partner in Crime.” The President, said Spitzer, was a fugitive from justice. And Spitzer was in Washington to launch a campaign to take on the Bush regime and the biggest financial powers on the planet.

Spitzer wrote, “When history tells the story of the subprime lending crisis and recounts its devastating effects on the lives of so many innocent homeowners the Bush administration will not be judged favorably.”

But now, the Administration can rest assured that this love story – of Bush and his bankers - will not be told by history at all – now that the Sheriff of Wall Street has fallen on his own gun.

A note on “Prosecutorial Indiscretion.”

Back in the day when I was an investigator of racketeers for government, the federal prosecutor I was assisting was deciding whether to launch a case based on his negotiations for airtime with 60 Minutes. I’m not allowed to tell you the prosecutor’s name, but I want to mention he was recently seen shouting, “Florida is Rudi country! Florida is Rudi country!”

Not all crimes lead to federal bust or even public exposure. It’s up to something called “prosecutorial discretion.”

Funny thing, this ‘discretion.’ For example, Senator David Vitter, Republican of Louisiana, paid Washington DC prostitutes to put him in diapers (ewww!), yet the Senator was not exposed by the US prosecutors busting the pimp-ring that pampered him.
Naming and shaming and ruining Spitzer – rarely done in these cases - was made at the ‘discretion’ of Bush’s Justice Department.

Or maybe we should say, 'indiscretion.'

[kate42]

You Reap What You Sow.

Did he not employ/use prostitutes to satisfy his inner needs??

He disgraced himself.

[sgrandjean]

The $200 billion bail-out for predator banks and Spitzer charges are intimately linked

By Greg Palast

What a nice far left-leaning spin on things. Some things never amaze me. I don't condone the practice, but sub-prime lending has been around far longer than a few years. I'd like to personally thank Mr. Palast for blaming the mortgage crisis on the present administration. :tongue:

Cheers.

[HS345]

There is no such thing as "predatory lending", that's just a term made up to vilify these lending institutions.

But when the Bush regime took over, Countrywide and its banking brethren were told to party hearty – it was OK now to steer’m, fake’m, charge’m and take’m.

What a load of malarkey, with a side of baloney sauce. The laws governing lending institutions didn't magically change when G.W. took office. You libs have such a penchant for dramatic propaganda. Bring me the freakin' fainting couch. :rolleyes:

Haven't you ever heard of "The Truth in Lending Act", it requires banks to spell out in black and white exactly what a borrower is getting into. If you know what you are getting into, and you sign on the dotted line, how is that predatory?

I know liberals hate it, but there is still such a thing as personal responsibility. But if you guys have your way, that'll go the way of the dinosaur.

Why do liberals hate capitalism so much? :confused:

[ddmoit]

Greg,

I like to celebrate our agreements. :aparty2: I didn't see anything disagreeable in your previous post.

To believe in predatory lending is to deny the existence of free will.

The blame for this mess falls squarely on the Federal Reserve's easy credit, inflationary policy. Economists of the Austrian school of thought explained in great detail what happens in a sea of easy credit (artificially low interest rates). Only the ignorant are surprised.

[HS345]

Halleeeeeeeluuuuuuuiaaaaaaaaaa!

[Scooter]

Haven't you ever heard of "The Truth in Lending Act", it requires banks to spell out in black and white exactly what a borrower is getting into. If you know what you are getting into, and you sign on the dotted line, how is that predatory? Because the loan officers were fabricating borrowers income and putting up phony appraisals to do the loan. They would then sell the loan to unsuspecting and even more greedy people. And now King George and the Fed says we have to bail out those people. This is wrong, people.I know liberals hate it, but there is still such a thing as personal responsibility. But if you guys have your way, that'll go the way of the dinosaur. No we just want pay as you go. The conservatives in power now want corporate welfare.

[HS345]

You got any evidence to support that wild accusation?

When did libs switch from tax and spend, to pay as you go? I musta missed that one.

[kate42]

Gentlemen

:topicoff: :topicoff: :topicoff: :topicoff: :topicoff: :topicoff: :topicoff: :topicoff:

Start a new thread.

[jvcstone]

When did libs switch from tax and spend, to pay as you go? I musta missed that one.

Seems to me that Tax and spend is more closely akin to "pay as you go" than the new conservative formula of cut taxes, then borrow and spend.

What we need is an administration that would cut spending back until it is in line with revenues. That would be a real pay as you go policy. Don't see that happening with either of the ordained parties. Maybe an amendment to our constitution mandating congress to attach the revenue bill (means of paying) to every spending bill passed would be a good thing.

JB--as a constitutional scholar, what about something like that???

JVC

Sorry kate, your instruction sneaked in on me

[HS345]

Kathleen, please see post #111. I believe we are still on topic, albeit onna tangent. ;)

[kate42]

:topicoff: :topicoff: :topicoff: :topicoff: :topicoff: :topicoff:

[flatfloor]

Post 111? That is really a streeeeetccccchh. :shake:

[HS345]

How is it a strech Flat? Steve posted an article about the supposed correlation between Spitzer and the banking crisis, which led to the current discussion.

That's actually better than usual. :D

[kate42]

Getting back on TOPIC

Back to Spitzer (http://www.nypost.com/seven/03272008/news/regionalnews/and_there_he_hos_again_103741.htm) And prostitution

[kilroy]

smoke and mirrors.

[kate42]

Poof

[sgrandjean]

Kathleen:
Poof

How about these links?
Bullwinkle J. Moose #1 (http://www.the-earchives.com/scripts/download.asp?id=225&ref=5)
Bullwinkle J. Moose #2 (http://www.the-earchives.com/scripts/download.asp?id=226&ref=5)

Cheers.

[MudMaker]

smoke and mirrors
More like Whips n Chains :lol1:

[kate42]

More like Whips n Chains

Sounds like pain to me. :cry:

[tileman2000]

Kate,you sure try hard keeping these fellas on topic....not an easy task.

Hats off to you.

[kate42]

,you sure try hard keeping these fellas on topic....not an easy task

Never is, but I try. Sometimes I think they get mad at me. However, it doesn't mean I don't love them. :) :)

[HS345]

Kathleen, I don't get mad at you, but......*lowers voice to a whisper* I think we're off topic.:D

[kate42]

Greg

OK

We are

Friends to the end.

[HS345]

Just messin' with you Kathleen, I'm an off topic kinda guy. (In case you hadn't noticed). :lol1:

[kate42]

Just messin' with you Kathleen
I'll accept that.

I'm an off topic kinda guy. (In case you hadn't noticed).

That's cool, as my grandaughter says. :)

[kate42]

Now look who's off topic. It's me.:D

[LazyPup]

I think all politicians should be busted for prostitution. Think about it,,they take our money and we end up getting screwed..Is that not prostitution?