Depression

[gary]

This economy seems like a mini depression . And we have a president who is in denial.

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[Tileworks]

All my builders are dead.

However, remodeling has skyrocketed and I am busy as a bee :-)

- Bob

[Maack]

It does depend where you are in this country, that's for sure with construction of any kind.

Oh, it's definately a Recession* theres no if's ands or buts* about that!

[koihito]

Around here it's the opposite. New construction is still going, but existing home sales and the remodeling market has tanked hard. For those of us who relied on remodeling, it's been a little rough. Most of the builders are after the cheapest price and it's difficult to do it right and compete with "the going rate."

[Bill Vincent]

Tell me about it. I had someone who actually found me through this forum, but was about 2 hours away. I even gave them a decent price, regardless of the travel, and still it wasn't good enough. That was down by George 41's house, too. It's getting so that people think they can get something for nothing these days because we're over a barrel. I gotta the bigga noosa fuh them! If it's going to COST me to do the job, why do it?

[Ravenna]

Alot of things in the area here happened all of the sudden. I live directly across from NYC and most of my work is a bit west of here. The wealthy commuters that work downtown. Used to keep things nice and busy, but there is a large portion of these people who are getting laid off from financial jobs. In the past 2 weeks we have had 4 jobs that were finalized with drawings and all, back out.

[Davestone]

I'm gonna have to move this to the mudbox, although it's a marginal call. :bow:

[conceptsplus]

Isn't looking good and my inbox is getting pounded by people trying to sell me stocks. Things are getting weird! :shake:

[Bill Vincent]

I'm waiting right now. I just gave a price on a job-- about 2500 feet of mudset soapstone and limestone main floor. If that one comes thru, it'll start in about a month or so, and that should carry me thru till the summer, because I'm told that's just the start in this home, and if they like the work it could get alot more intricate in the bathrooms.

Keepin my fingers crossed!!

[HS345]

Do people really fall for those goofy penny stock emails? They must, or we wouldn't keep gettin em.

New construction has slowed way down around here. Been doin' more and more remods.

I don't think the constant hammering by the media about how bad things are, is helping.'''

[MudMaker]

Let's see.. I'm gonna play the Devil's Advocate here.. :devil:
We be teachin everybody to do their own work (DIY) and "DoItRight" (here's a plug for ya John) and wonder why there is less work out there... Just a thought.. :)
Whilst I'm thinkin, there's gonna be ebbs and tides, feast or famine, it's indicative of the industry we're in.. :shrug:
Nother thought, when Wall Street is stable so is the Industry, and versey visa.. We are in an election year and that always means instability.
Lots o stuff gonin on out there that is way beyond our control. Maybe all will settle down after the election - or not.. :uhh:

[Scooter]

Greg, the media reports facts--tanking home sales, business failures, and experts like Warren Buffet predicting worse times ahead.

I don't think anyone honestly believes that housing prices are up, stock prices are rising, and there is no stopping this go-go economy. :yipee:

If your point is that the media should lie, or should hold a real story because the truth hurts, you and I are again in fundamental disagreement. I don't believe the media should be controlled by the government. This ain't Russia in the 1960's.

[John Bridge]

Well, Frank, it's not that way at all (I'm playing John, the argumentative s.o.b. :D )

All we do here is advise people who have pretty much already made up their minds to do it themselves. They're not looking for our permission; they're only looking for advice. So in most of these cases the pro never had a shot at the job to begin with.

Furthermore, I don't know what the percentage of DIYers is but it's a finite segment of the market. You've got die hard DIYers and people who will not do it themselves under any circumstance. The later are by far the majority.

And furthermore, DIYers don't figure into the new home/new building market at all.

So just blame it on the construction industry. That's where the fault lies. It's been that way forever, and it will continue to be that way -- up and down. ;)

[koihito]

I know that each area and each person has their own market and experiences, but for me, this is as bad as it has ever been. I've been self employed for over ten years and I just started advertising last week for the first time. Until now, word of mouth has had me turning down work.

I do know one thing, however, I will deliver pizza's for Domino's before I set tile like the stuff going into the housing development down the road from me. They are paying $2.25 a Sq.Ft. Labor, floors and walls and that includes CBU. It looks atrocious!

[Bill Vincent]

they're only looking for advice. So in most of these cases the pro never had a shot at the job to begin with.

let me elaborate on John's statement a little. keep in mind, it's not just DIYer's we're helping here. Alot of people who come into the forums are looking to make sure their installers are doing it right. They're trying to educate themselves so they can tell whether someone really knows what they're doing, or just trying to stroke em out of their hard earned money. The education that we provide is actually to OUR benefit, as well. it puts us on more of an even playing field with those who go around trying to lowball homeowners to take the work, because with the information we give them, homeowners these days can spot that kind of crap alot easier now. In addition, they understand alot more the reasoning behind the prices we give as craftsmen, and that we're not just trying to rip them off, but that it costs US to be able to give them a quality installation that'll last for generations instead of years, and in order to do that kind of installation we need to charge fairly for our work.

So this works out to ALL our benefits. Not just the consumers.

[MudMaker]

Yea... but John.. Don't cha just see a little Irony here?
We're teachin people to fish... I mean tile... :D
Don't get me wrong.. I luv it... Just saw a little humor in it...
You do know I have a weird sense of humor - right???

[JPtile]

I'd like to point out that it's not just DIY people and clients who become better informed from the knowledge here.

I chose to make this my profession about 7 or 8 years ago, and I'm not going to do it unless I'm going to do it as good as I possibly can. That means, that while experience and apprenticeship goes a long way, it still leaves a lot of blind spots.

Tile setting (complex, high quality installations that you want to last "for generations") is a very elaborate process, we all know. Thank god. If I was a painter or a trim carpenter or dry waller I'd be falling asleep or otherwise getting bored. That's just how I am. I want to apply my creative talents to something of lasting beauty that is structurally sound and waterproof to boot.

And my mentors taught me that nothing about the process should remain a mystery. That every thing I do I should know why I'm doing it.

So I'm gratefull you're all here to help fill in 1,000 more of the 10,000 details
I need to consider every day when I show up to work.

[koihito]

And then there are those who really can't afford to hire a quality craftsman. The reality is, the average person can't afford what I do; I couldn't afford what I do. I tell potential customers all the time that a well done fiberglass shower or vinyl floor will serve them far better than a poorly done "showpiece".

I think it's great that we can help a homeowner create something like a custom shower that otherwise they could never enjoy.

[conceptsplus]

You know, Sam Walton based his prices off our little big city here in the ozarks. He said that around here were some shop til ya drop people. I'll stick with what I've always said. In the end, YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!!! You want a $200 paint job, go to Earl Shibe. Then you can show off those fancy brooming effects! Stupid me let my wife texture the sunroom ceiling. Looks like CRAP! Hope she doesn't read this :uhh:

[david bassler]

Like going to Walmart: "If your not willing to pay for quailty- you don't deserve it".

[cx]

All my builders are dead.Damn! Hope that don't spread down here. :D

DIYers ain't never scared me, Frank. In any facet of the residential construction industry. I've encouraged and even sometimes helped my customers do a project on their own that was something I generally do for money. And I'm always happy to tell them what they wanna know to do any other project.

They ain't competition. And when the big jobs come up, I know who they're gonna call. And if their friends need serious remodeling work, I know who they're gonna recommend.

In fact, some of my very best customers are DIYers from way back. They know what it takes to do what I do for them and they ain't got nary thought of trying to do it ever again theirownselfs. :shades:

I'll always be willing to help anyone who wants to help hisownself and be happy for him when his project turns out well. :)

[Theold--scottyb]

I thought the OP was depressed?

[cx]

Sounds like he is, Scotty. You don't suppose he's the one killin' all them builders, do ya? :D

[Bill Vincent]

That's okay, CX-- you're too damned ornery to kick off right now!! Like the saying goes-- Heaven don't wantcha, and hell's afraid you'll take over!! :D

[HS345]

Greg, the media reports facts--tanking home sales, business failures, and experts like Warren Buffet predicting worse times ahead.
Scooter, You're right, the media USUALLY reports the "facts", as they see them. Trouble is they only report the "facts" that suit their leftist agenda. It's really very simple, google the number of stories written on negative economic news, then google the number of stories written about positive economic news. Yes, there are still positive economic news stories, you just don't hear much about them.

Warren Buffet? Puhleeeese. Buffet complains that he is not paying enough taxes. As far as I know, there is no prohibition against writing checks to the federal government. Feel free to pay extra, Mr. Buffet. As for me, I think I am paying enough.

Of course we're in an economic slump, I coulda swore that's what I said in my previous post.


Of course I don't want the media to lie, that's absurd. I just want them to report the good as well as the bad. Proportionately, that's all.

[conceptsplus]

CX, You just about struck a John Q. Hammons quote up there. Here it is: "Why I treasure living in America......Because I believe in your God given ability to learn, earn, save and share by helping others to help themselves" John Q. Hammons

Even in rough times, there you have it! :)

[conceptsplus]

If you ask Don Henley, he'll say that people are responsible for the material of the media. Is this not true?

[HS345]

Don Henley is a fantastic musician, and singer, but a horrible philosopher. :D

I'm sure some media content is driven by demand. But when you have "news outlets" running fabricated stories, with no corroboration or concrete evidence, I would say that is purely agenda driven.

Why do you think ratings for news outlets such as CNN, and SEE-BS, are steadily declining?

Why do you think subscriptions for rags such as The New York Slimes, are way down?

[John Bridge]

Frank, I've never taken you seriously. :D

JP, why not give us a first name? :)

And an afterthought: Everyone here should have as much information in his/her signature and title information as possible. A lot of pros get leads from the forums, but folks have to know who you are, what you do and where you operate. So if you don't have that info posted, get with it. ;)

[MudMaker]

Frank, I've never taken you seriously.
Thankx for the kind words John.. That means a lot to me :cry:

[Davestone]

We're quoting the great philosopher Henley? :lol1: He can't even pronounce eucalyptus. :yeah: The media gives us facts...ha,this thread should be in the joke thread. :bow:

[John Bridge]

Sorry, Frank. Nearly broke both my arms restraining myself, but just couldn't do it. :D

[sdaniels7114]

I gotta wonder just how much the advice given here drives people away from doing the work themselves? I see Joe Homeowner going down to the Depot and being encouraged to learn that there's pre-mixed this and that and perfectly good tile cutters for $19.95 that'll cut Porcelain, etc. Then they come here and get a more accurate picture and are driven right out of DIY'ing. It really is a lot of work to do it right and its not cost effective IMO, unless you don't have a job.

For every n00b in the shallow end who'll buy a decent wetsaw to tackle one job, there's got to be 50 who decide to hire the work out when they find out that they'll need one.

[Bill Vincent]

Steve, my signature line says it all, and if they CAN'T do it, then we just saved them a BUNCH of money and time.

[John Bridge]

That's a very good point, Steve, and frankly, I haven't thought of it that way before. I will in the future. :)