Trowel size on 18x18 travertine [Archive] - Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile

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remodelingit
02-18-2008, 02:59 PM
Getting ready to lay some 18x18 travertine and want to know which trowel size is recommended for tile this size and type. It will be placed on 1/4" Hardiebacker.

Also, any general tips would be appreciated....

Thanks,

Philip

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lou432
02-18-2008, 03:02 PM
I`d go min 1/2x1/2 depending on how flat the floor is? maybe even 3/4x3/4 ?
. What your substrate? concrete? Ditra? CBU?
Sorry your using Hardi! Duhhhh!!

I`d moisten the Hardi real good w/ a sponge before I trowelled on the thin set, Hardi`s real thirsty & ya don`t want it drinking all the good stuff out of the thinset. What thinset are you using? I`d use a good med bed , modified, & make sure you burn or flat side trowell the backs w/ thinset before you set`m in the thinset notched on the floor.


Can we assume you`ve checked the deflecto above for stone??

ceramictec
02-18-2008, 04:07 PM
Can we assume you`ve checked the deflecto above for stone??

I hope he did when using 18" Travertine on 1/4" Hardi

MudGuy
02-18-2008, 04:26 PM
Philip -

First stone job? Patience with this one, knowing that you'll be re-setting pieces as you go to keep lippage to a minimum.

Like Lou said, a 1/2"x1/2" trowel or bigger and a good, medium bed "white" thinset. I like Mapei UltraContact - no not a rep, just use a lot of their products. A medium bed thinset helps to support a heavier tile, keeps the floor flat (lippage) and ultimately makes your job easier as you install.

I like a 1/8" sanded grout joint or a tighter non-sanded grout joint depending on the type of travertine.

Make sure that floor will handle the stone.

Jonathan

remodelingit
02-18-2008, 09:46 PM
Thanks gang. Patience is right- took me 3 hours to set 9 tiles to keep lippage to a minimum. I'm using Custom Marble and Granite Premium Fortified mortar and 1/2 by 1/2 trowel and back buttering before setting. The bed seems abnormally thick and it took a couple of tries on several tiles to get the right depth.

Did not check deflecto - hopefully it won't be a problem with 2x6 floor joists 16"OC with 1x6 pine on diagonal and 5/8 ply beneath the 1/4 hardibacker. Floor doesn't appear to flex and bounce.

Any other tips would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Philip

remodelingit
02-18-2008, 09:50 PM
...following up - thumbs up on deflecto meter! whew...

HS345
02-19-2008, 08:33 AM
2x6 floor joists passed for stone on the Deflecto? Wow, must be a very short span.

Good luck with your project, let us know how it went. :)

hans_idle
02-19-2008, 08:34 AM
Philip,

That's a pretty good pace if you're a novice. I tiled my foyer last spring with 18" travertine. No matter how fast I tried to work, I could never get more than 13 tiles put down in an afternoon. It was my first tiling job ever. But patience is the key word. I mislaid one tile in the middle of the field, and it took me 30 minutes just to get the tile back up because the medium-bed mortar had suctioned it down to the Ditra.

I used the same mortar that you are using, and it worked well. Same trowel size, too. The mortar was up to 3/4" thick in a few places where the floor had depressions in it.

-Hans

Brian in San Diego
02-19-2008, 09:48 AM
Philip,

You are far along enough in this project to stop now, but I have my doubts about all that is underneath supporting this installation. The unsupported span of those 2x6s would have to be 6' or less to pass the Deflecto. I'm a little more worried about what you have on top of the joists if, in fact, your span is that small. If the plywood was installed properly and you set the hardiebacker according to the manufaturer's instructions (over thinset and followed their fastener schedule) then it may stand the test of time.

If you don't have a Tavy tile puck, you may want to stop by Lowe's and pick one up. A handy tool to have to detect lippage and they're only about 10 bucks.

Brian

hans_idle
02-19-2008, 09:53 AM
If you don't have a Tavy tile puck, you may want to stop by Lowe's and pick one up. A handy tool to have to detect lippage and they're only about 10 bucks.

Yes, the tile puck is a great tool to have on hand. It was the single most useful tool for lippage and leveling.

remodelingit
02-19-2008, 10:26 AM
Thanks - the puck looks like it will be a useful tool.

Brian - what is the cause for your concern and what would you have done differently? The joists do span 5ft. If it matters, the tile area is 9ft wide and 17 ft long.

Thanks,

Philip

hans_idle
02-19-2008, 11:27 AM
At the risk of beating a dead horse here, the joist span isn't necesarily the size of the room. I had a 10ft wide foyer, but the joist spanned 17ft underneath of it until the next support (unfinished basement with no supporting walls). If it really is 5ft, then that's great. But it is ultimately determined by the supporting structure underneath the floor you are tiling.


Edit- oops, it looks like you already clarified this above. It's a 5ft span but a 9ftx17ft room. It sounds like you either have a support running down the middle or across it at no more than 5ft spacing. My mistake.

JarekS
02-19-2008, 02:02 PM
Is a 1/2 x 1/2 trowel and a medium bed mortar necessary if I'm using Ditra?

lou432
02-19-2008, 02:07 PM
Yes , no matter what yer puttin that size over ,ya still need them. IMO.

HS345
02-19-2008, 02:15 PM
Most thinsets can be applied up to 1/4" thick. So unless you need more thickness than that, thinset should be suitable.

As Louis said, the Ditra doesn't negate the need for a larger notch trowel.

Brian in San Diego
02-19-2008, 05:42 PM
Philip,

My cause for concern is if the dimensional wood was screwed to the joists, where the plywood seams ended, what the fastening schedule for the plywood was, did the fasteners miss the joists, was a thinset put down to set the cbu, were the proper amount of fasteners used and finally, were the cbu seams thinset and taped with alkalai resistant tape? If done properly you will probably be fine. If not, then the travertine may be susceptible to cracking.

Brian

LatCSRNC
02-19-2008, 07:28 PM
Jarek,

One thing to remember, Ditra requires unmodified mortar on top, all medium bed mortars are modified.

Thanks,

stonemason777
02-19-2008, 07:36 PM
Mud bed then medium set is a guaranteed no lippage install with the right setter! And if I even showed up on a job with a tile puck - I'd be fired!

hans_idle
02-20-2008, 07:58 AM
And if I even showed up on a job with a tile puck - I'd be fired!

Oh come on. Surely you (and your employer) see the benefit in using the puck as a coaster for your coffee cup! It tells you if the surface is level, and therefore safe, to put your coffee cup down. :lol1:

I must admit I've found numerous uses for mine since I'm just a weekend warrior who tiles every once in a while. Even my 3-year-old daughter enjoys rolling it around the kitchen floor.

JarekS
02-20-2008, 11:20 AM
Jarek,

One thing to remember, Ditra requires unmodified mortar on top, all medium bed mortars are modified.

Thanks,
I know that, although an installer at a local tile store said that they always use modified mortar anyway. Any technical reasons why this can't/shouldn't be done?

Brian in San Diego
02-20-2008, 11:26 AM
Jarek,

I don't want you to get the wrong impression, but this is Philip's thread. You have three threads started for what appears to be the same project. I would encourage you to pick one of them and ask your questions (all of them) on your thread. It just gets too confusing when two different people are seeking advice on the same thread. It also leads to confusion when a member starts multiple threads for the same project because those either trying to help or those following along don't get the "whole" picture when questions are asked in several threads.

Copy your question onto your thread and it'll receive attention over there.

Brian