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Ron
09-27-2001, 09:03 PM
Hi fellow tilesetters,

This year I've had a few stressful occasions in my career as self-employed tilesetter.Recently I've stopped to reflect and come up with some resolutions so these things don't happen again.

Lately I've realized that my friends don't always want to endure my saturated rantings so I thought what better place to get things offa my chest than at the renowned Mud Box.

Maybe some of yous can relate.Also,with the money I'll be saving on a shrink,I'll be able to buy a shiny new pool trowel,case of Guinness and some good scotch...yeah,a big bottle of Lagavulin.Lord have mercy on me poor Dutch soul.

1. No more work in the city.

I live about 30 min. from downtown Toronto IF I'm going there in the evening to join some pals at a pub.Otherwise it takes anywhere from 1 hour to 2 hours to get there.Toronto's highway system sucks as do the drivers.
Have a myriad of parking tickets under seat of truck,all written while unloading my truck or stopping briefly to get a coffee by a guy who hasn't quite grasped the English language...Ah,the beauty of Canada's immigration laws...hey,I'm an immigrant too but I hef learnt Engels ferry goed,yaa.

Just warning you now that this is gonna be a long one.I tend to go on and on,sorry.

2. No more haggling.

Often I have customers trying to get me to lower my estimate.When I do give in,I end up working unhappily and kicking myself for it the whole time.From now on I consider the haggling effort somewhat of an insult to my honesty and will leave the price as quoted knowing that it is fair.I'm not expensive,usually figure out the estimate so that I earn between $30 - $40 an hour(for actual labour hours.)

3. All estimates on paper.And all changes to original contract on paper too.

Have heard "Yeah but I thought you were going to tile that too" or "I thought you were including that in the price" too many times.I always itemize estimates so that the customer knows exactly what I'm supplying and what I'll be expected to do.Some of the times that it has been verbal I've been screwed.

4. Advance payment at starting date.

On some estimates I had specified payment upon completion.Some of these jobs got extended for various reasons and I had to wait until the job was finished to get paid.With,say,25% up front,the material is at least financed and it shows good faith from the customer.

5. No more work for "friends" (unless they'll pay what the job is worth)

I've always given friends or acquaintances a great deal when I've completed tile jobs for them.They always seem a lot more friend-like when work needs to be done.Most of them never really appreciate it and some still complain about the cost(when I could have been out earning at least twice as much).Kinda feel used afterwards.It also never comes back your way either.One "friend" was head of security at a downtown college.What's he gonna do,guard my truck for me for free?If they are truly "friends" then they should pay what everyone else would pay knowing that I will take even more care with their project than someone else's.

6. No more working on Sundays.Or late on Saturdays.

At one point I had worked every day for 4 months straight.Not worth it.Rather be wasting time on a barstool.

7. No more lending out tools.And this time I mean it.

This never seems to work out for me.I either get it back worn,dirty or late,or never.Have had to rent or borrow the same tool while my "friend" is in possession of mine.Also they'll call me incessantly trying to borrow the tool.When I want it back I can't get a hold of them.When they need it they'll make time to come and pick it up.Then I end up having to go out of my way to reach them to get the damn thing back.This week I had to borrow a Sawzall and buy a trowel due to this problem.Never,ever,ever again!

8. No more rush jobs.

"Yeah,but we're moving in Monday".Guess what lady,I'll still be here...
I'm slow at what I do and these rush jobs don't seem to speed me up any.Few times I've had to endure frowns and guilt when it turned out I couldn't get it done before I became "inconvenient".Next time I won't take these type of jobs.

Ah...that feels better.Learning all the time.

Have you guys had some of these problems?Thanks for letting me vent.

Ron.

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Bri
09-27-2001, 09:24 PM
Ron
Ditto!....though living in T.O and having to work must really, really Suck!!!...your gas bill must be insane(good thing you can write most of it off)Like the Guinness idea(who needs to work when you have a case of that stuff),,Have a bunch of tools out myself at the moment(that's why I have 2 of everything)..so don't feel to bad...we're all in the same boat....

Rob Z
09-28-2001, 06:49 AM
Ron

Amen, brother! I just sent CX an email about one of my rants. Now, I know I can open up and go nuts here about mine (before this, I thought CX was the only one I could confide in. Kelly, you're off the hook, buddy!)

When I get back home, I am gonna let er rip.

I just wish that DC was a little closer to Toronto. I'd bring some Bass ale to mix with your Guinness and make some black-and-tans.

Rob Z

floormantwo
09-28-2001, 11:12 AM
I agree with all the above, also I do not like to work for doctor, or preachers ( probably catch he##) for that statement, they all want it for nuthin ,hate the rush jobs evwerything a rush until its time to get payed, then they slow way down on that . not sure what gunisses or bass is, but down hear i like cold beer, when i meditate.

flatfloor
09-28-2001, 11:55 AM
Never, ever work for doctors or lawyers. The lawyer will try to screw you and for some reason doctors seem to think they have a God given right to pay whenever, if at all.

floormantwo
09-28-2001, 12:39 PM
I forgot about lawyers, i got 2 goood friends lawyers, will not work for them, after i splained it to them the ok, they do some work for me and I pay ahead,do not want no sh$$ from them, never had a problem. I also love the customer that comes in and says I can get this over there for this price, whats yours, like they say ican get 4x4 tile at HD for .29 ft. i say no its per piece, they get pissed, leave then come back to me later and pay me 1.75ft after they lurned a lesson and math.

John Bridge
09-28-2001, 08:03 PM
Doctors, lawyers, tinkers, tailors, candlestick makers, but please don't mention ethnic groups. That's not what we're about here.

Rob Z
09-28-2001, 08:55 PM
Bud? Hospitality field? HMMMMM?

Rob Z
09-28-2001, 09:31 PM
Ron

I am getting better at telling customers, GC's, other trades, designers and architects the way it's gonna be with the tile. None of them know a damn thing about tile, and yet they want crazy, unreasonable stuff done on the job. "No, thinset is NOT going to correct that wall that is 1/2" out of plumb".

I've noticed that plumbers and electricians get to walk all over the job making demands and saying the way it's gonna be. No more taking back seat for this tilesetter.

Another thing, I am going to start charging for the slow downs and delays I face in my work because of the changes, mistakes, and general incompetence of others on the job.

Any work I do for a designer now will be reviewd by me before the start of the job in order make sure that the proposed plan and materials will work. I am not going to let anyone else do the ordering of materials because they never get it right.

Ron , you make some very good points. We need to realize that there are precious few guys out there setting tile that are good and know what they are doing. The law of supply and demand says that we sould start charging more, and requiring more from the GC's and designers.


[Edited by Rob Zschoche on 09-29-2001 at 12:14 AM]

Ron
09-28-2001, 09:54 PM
Rob,

An older tilesetter told me that although the client is number one,that you have to satisfy them by doing a nice job,the boss is still you.The client is never the boss.Also told me that if you're firm with them,they'll respect you more than if you're a nice guy and give 'em a deal and throw in some extras.Makes sense.Took me years to figure that out for myself.

John,

What the hell is a tinker?

cx
09-28-2001, 10:00 PM
Tinker's the guy what fixes your pots and pans.

Thought everybody knowed that.

Used to fix'em with lead. Some customers get pretty crazy, you betcha.

You never hear of a Tinker's dam?

Bud Cline
09-28-2001, 10:05 PM
tin·ker

Pronunciation: 'ti[ng]-k&r
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English tinkere
Date: 14th century
1 a : a usually itinerant mender of household utensils b : an unskillful mender : BUNGLER
2 chiefly Irish : GYPSY

Rob Z
09-28-2001, 10:16 PM
Ron

I like the old timer's advice. I filled in the rest of my post, back up a few.

Rob

John Bridge
09-29-2001, 08:49 AM
It's taken years, but I've solved the GC thing. I just don't work for them. Don't have to. I have enough first hand remodeling work to keep me busy if I want it.

When GCs occasionally call, I tell them I don't work for GCs. Some of them get a little indignant, whereupon I assure them it's not them personally. It's all the other bad GCs they associate with.

[Edited by Rob Zschoche on 10-01-2001 at 10:39 PM]

JC
10-01-2001, 03:51 PM
Any third party middle men will mess things up to increase there profit margin.

One of these days hopefully I'll be able to cut them out also like you John, but not in the near future that is for sure.

John Bridge
10-01-2001, 04:50 PM
I just tried to change "ensure" to assure in my previous post, and I got a notice saying I need to contact the "administrator" in order to do that. Can someone please point me to the administrator. Is is you, Rob? Bud? JC?

flatfloor
10-01-2001, 08:27 PM
Well, it sure as hell isn't me!

Rob Z
10-01-2001, 08:40 PM
All taken care of, John.

Z

cx
10-01-2001, 08:59 PM
Not all GCs bad! :(

flatfloor
10-01-2001, 09:13 PM
Kelly that is really true. I have worked for some really good ones, of course it took some time and experiences to find them.

Two of the worst;
I liened a NYC school job, the GC called when he found out, I went to his office and he offered me a post dated check for less than he owed me. Yeah right!

Then there was Pentecost Construction, he turned into the holy ghost, skipped town when the job went sour.