Whats your take. Are we DOOMED!

[pa_tileman]

What is it with the end of the world stuff being aired on Sunday Nights. ie History channel and Discovery. I think george Carlin put it best when hes said "PACK YOUR BAGS FOLKS, THE EARTH IS GOING TO SHAKE US OFF LIKE A BAD CASE OF FLEAS" :lol1:

I do think the enviroment is one of the biggest issues we face. Maybe not all the save the world crap, but energy. It is already controlling global economics, and the way China is growing is only going to make things worse.
I'm sure this will make some people mad "lighten up on the sports a little" I love to play sports, but lets face it, all this sports hipe is doing is stuffing the pockets of these athletes who are still playing kids games and put that money and focus to good use. :moon: Dump the paychecks of this big rock stars, recycle there houses, let them drive 1 or 2 cars and build a few nucular power plants in hollywood. Do you think Jerry would mind? Some of those Ravens line backers could make great helpers and mud mixers! Them quarter backs could sure swing a big grout float! :stick:

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[dohja4433]

sup pa tileman?
I'm with you on this except I Like the save the world crap too.How bout a first name? :goodpost:

[pa_tileman]

Brian Payne,

I like the save the world thing too, but it is a natural thing, that is earth cycles. Scientsts say that the earth should really be in a cooling cycle, we are moving further from the sun, but the sun is more active, producing more energy. I think the amount of C O2 being created will take to long to be reversed. The permafrost layers are melting so fast. I think methane releases are soon on the horizon and things will surely get rolling south. I think our generation and the next will scim by, but man kind cant seem to stop blowing things up long enough to really worry about it. My best friends son is a micro biologist and is in Africa on his last year of service of the piece corps. He told me its the things that are to small to see with the naked eye is where the real damage is accurring. He graduated top in his class in New Zeland, went there for special courses that could not be studied here. Who knows, tile aint gonna save the world though, if it was not for the multi- million dollar homes, a lot of us would be out of work! :scratch:

[MudMaker]

Brian,
If'n their too small to see, I wouldn't worry bout it... :D
The sky is NOT falling..

[dohja4433]

Frank,
nope not fallin' just disappearing! :bonk:

[Hamilton]

Like the quote in your sig Will. One of my favorite bands. Whether
or not people can agree whether or not global warming is man made
or not, it is happening and at accelerated rates in the last 10 years.
Do a little reading. If you would like there is just a couple 78,900,000
pages you can clik on google to read on the topic. Or, if you prefer
you can be hard headed and call it BS propaganda to get more of your
money.

[HS345]

By John Coleman, founder of The Weather Channel

It is the greatest scam in history. I am amazed, appalled and highly offended by it. Global Warming; It is a SCAM. Some dastardly scientists with environmental and political motives manipulated long term scientific data to create an illusion of rapid global warming. Other scientists of the same environmental whacko type jumped into the circle to support and broaden the “research” to further enhance the totally slanted, bogus global warming claims. Their friends in government steered huge research grants their way to keep the movement going. Soon they claimed to be a consensus.

Environmental extremists, notable politicians among them, then teamed up with movie, media and other liberal, environmentalist journalists to create this wild “scientific” scenario of the civilization threatening environmental consequences from Global Warming unless we adhere to their radical agenda. Now their ridiculous manipulated science has been accepted as fact and become a cornerstone issue for CNN, CBS, NBC, the Democratic Political Party, the Governor of California, school teachers and, in many cases, well informed but very gullible environmentally conscientious citizens. Only one reporter at ABC has been allowed to counter the Global Warming frenzy with one 15 minute documentary segment.

I do not oppose environmentalism. I do not oppose the political positions of either party. However, Global Warming, i.e. Climate Change, is not about environmentalism or politics. It is not a religion. It is not something you “believe in.” It is science; the science of meteorology. This is my field of life-long expertise. And I am telling you Global Warming is a non-event, a manufactured crisis and a total scam. I say this knowing you probably won’t believe a me, a mere TV weatherman, challenging a Nobel Prize, Academy Award and Emmy Award winning former Vice President of United States. So be it.

I have read dozens of scientific papers. I have talked with numerous scientists. I have studied. I have thought about it. I know I am correct. There is no run away climate change. The impact of humans on climate is not catastrophic. Our planet is not in peril. I am incensed by the incredible media glamour, the politically correct silliness and rude dismissal of counter arguments by the high priest of Global Warming.

In time, a decade or two, the outrageous scam will be obvious. As the temperature rises, polar ice cap melting, coastal flooding and super storm pattern all fail to occur as predicted everyone will come to realize we have been duped. The sky is not falling. And, natural cycles and drifts in climate are as much if not more responsible for any climate changes underway. I strongly believe that the next twenty years are equally as likely to see a cooling trend as they are to see a warming trend.

[Hamilton]

Here is one page from Nasa (http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Library/GlobalWarmingUpdate/)

[Shooter]

Well, if I happen to last out the initial shock or trauma of this "big earth shattering event", lets just say that I will be one well armed and prepared hombre. :yeah:

[HS345]

For decades, cars and factories have spewed billions of tons of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere, and these gases caused temperatures to rise between 0.6°C and 0.9°C (1.08°F to 1.62°F) over the past century.

The effects of global warming are already being felt worldwide. The Larsen-B Ice Shelf on the Antarctic Peninsula collapsed over 35 days in early 2002, prompted by 3°C of warming since the 1940s.

These two statements are litterally side by side on your Nasa page.
Kinda makes you go hmmm. :deal:

[Hamilton]

Im no scientist, but im pretty sure one temp you quoted is an average
global, and the other a regional. You might wanna read the article.

[HS345]

Here's the latest installment from Coleman, it contains a chart of recently REPROCESSED temperature data from...........you guessed it, NASA.
Colemans latest comments. (http://www.kusi.com/weather/colemanscorner/11338421.html)

[LadyGodiva]

As long as we all go together (big bang) I don't care :D

[HS345]

Here is some more data from a NASA researcher.

Antarctic ice increasing. (http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/antarctic_020822.html)

[Hamilton]

Not to sure if i trust the "weatherguy" san diego or not. :rolleyes:
I did a little poking around, and yup... you are right greg. The Antarctic
polar ice is indeed thickening. In fact there are tons of articles all
over the net. Here is one from the New York Times (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C04E0DC1439F933A15756C0A9639C8B63)
Whats sucks is it seems that warming is causing that too.

[sandbagger]

as long as we're throwing NASA around, Dr Roy Spencer bears reading. Spencer is now at the University of Alabama, but this (http://science.nasa.gov/newhome/headlines/essd5feb97_1.htm) was some of his work before leaving. Spencer was a colleague of Hansen (receiver of George Soros funding) at one time.

here's some of Spencer's work at UAH (http://www.marshall.org/article.php?id=312)

and here (http://www.nypost.com/seven/02262007/postopinion/opedcolumnists/not_that_simple_opedcolumnists_roy_w__spencer.htm?page=0) taking a shot at Al Gore.

and with that in mind, you can be hard headed and call it BS propaganda to get more of your money. Follow the money, they say. And be skeptical when you find it all points to the same place. Did you ever hear of someone getting a big grant to study the possibility that there is another side to this issue? I thought. :shake:

[dl]

here's some of Spencer's work at UAH

Yeah, where basically he admits "made it obvious to us that the UAH diurnal correction method had a bias that needed to be corrected." and he now has a corrected method that closely corresponds with other climate models: "Our new AMSU-based (observed) diurnal cycle adjustments end up being very similar to RSS's climate model (theoretical) adjustments."

He concludes with: 'at least some portion of the disagreement between satellite and thermometer estimates of global temperature trends has now been removed. This helps to further shift the global warming debate out of the realm of "is warming happening?" to "how much has it warmed, and how much will it warm in the future?"'

So basically he's crying uncle, or at least headed in that direction?

- DL

[kate42]

:wave:

Who do you believe? Everyone has an opinion, good or bad. The experts interpret the data differently. I don't believe it's as bad as they say. That's just my interpretation.
Our polluting ways is definitely having a negative affect on the livability of this planet. I, in my small way, will do my best not to pollute. :nod:
I do live in fear of this planet self destructing. http://www.millan.net/minimations/toolminis/flora_flowerearth.gif (http://www.millan.net)

[kate42]

:wave:

http://www.millan.net/minimations/smileys/mornshinesmile.gif (http://www.millan.net)

Like I said who do you believe? Better yet, who can you trust with the truth???

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/15/AR2007111502550.html?wpisrc=newsletter

[HS345]

Not to sure if i trust the "weatherguy" san diego or not.

That's a little disingenous, this guy is not simply the "weatherguy san diego", he is the person who founded THE WEATHER CHANNEL. Perhaps you've heard of it. He has made meteorology his LIFELONG area of expertise. He does'nt work because he has to, he works because of his love of the field. I think I'll trust him before I'll trust any of the drivel that comes out of Pinchy Sulzberger's rag.

Speaking of which, that article you linked to (boy, we're some linkin' fools arent we? :D ), seems to be full of holes IMO. terms like "cannot figure out", and, "could be as-yet-unseen melting of ice". Perhaps these eggheads could explain how they accurately measure a 3mm rise in sea level, and then attribute it to, cannot figure out as-yet-unseen algoresaysso global warming.

I noticed you completely ignored the Nasa temp chart which places 1934 as the warmest year on record in the last century.

Look Hamilton, there's no question that the planet is warming slightly. The question is, are we (mankind) causing it? In order to believe man made global warming is true, you must ignore a lot of empirical data.

I'm not for trashing the planet. The root word of conservative is converve. I'm all for it. The whole global climate change frenzy has NOTHING to do with conservation, or "saving the planet". It is all about money, control and the destruction of The United States of America.

[MudMaker]

Don,
Just be glad it's warming.. I hate cold weather...
We all should be glad we're not "Cooling" ya know, like going into another "Ice Age" :laugh2:
I just love that movie... :shades:

[sandbagger]

This helps to further shift the global warming debate out of the realm of "is warming happening?" to "how much has it warmed, and how much will it warm in the future?"' Correct to a point. Spencer has been one of the few scientists to go on record with a healthy dose of skepticism about this whole issue. Like a good scientist, the initial focus of his skepticism has been the data. We now know his skepticism was/is well-founded, and he's been instrumental in bringing about some of the normalizing of that data. Yes, he agrees that there is a high probability (remember, this is all based on statistics - or should be) that there is some warming.

But you leaped right past the real thrust of Spencer's work - the cause. He does NOT agree that man alone - if at all - is the evil culprit portrayed by the likes of Al Gore. :shake: This is a very complex problem, and like any complex problem has many possible answers. You do NOT start with a single assumption (ie, it's man's fault) and try to prove it correct - that's just bad science. :suspect:

[pa_tileman]

Great replies, kept me reading for almost an hour. I used to drink beer on friday nights. I feel much better now, maybe the world won't end anytime soon, to bad social security will be broke when I put my trowels down! I still think George Carlin describes it best though :tongue: and just maybe those old farmer tales about large acorns meaning lots of snow and Black catipillars ,cold winters is about as accurate as these scientist. The acorns in PA were huge this year. Or maybe I don't really remember how big they were last year :bonk:

Thanks,

I,m gonna go wash the thinset off my head from spreading a ceiling Today, and I think I'll shower with a lot of really hot water :yipee:

[jjwq8]

Could somebody please explain to what the hell is this abstract idea "ice". I have heard it has something to do with water freezing, but damned if I been a witness to it these past 30 years other than in an appliance in the kitchen:D

[HS345]

Jeremy, come visit me in Northeast Ohio in January and I'll 'splain it to you. :stick:

[John Corley]

Jeremy :lol2: :lol1:

[MudMaker]

Jeremy,
I digress.... Could be In Case of Emergency..
Or..... it could be Clear Ice for my drinks.. I just installed a clear ice machine down in my family room in the Bar section.. I have this thing about Clear Ice for drinks.. Can't use the cloudy kind.. ruints drinks..
There is just nothing finer than stirring a drink that has crystal clear ice in it... Sure I could buy clear ice and did for a while but I got my own now..
Now I have one and I am pickled tink.... :o
Yea, don't see much of it in Q8 do ya?

[jjwq8]

OK, now I am confused.

Ban Ki Moon has just returned from Antarctica, a region without representation at the United Nations so it could not be anything other than a private visit at the expense of those funding such junkets, to declare that he has witnessed the melting of the ice and declared himself thoroughly panicked.

It's 40 below fer crissakes.

What ice was he looking at? Is Antarctic ice exempt from the laws of nature, the very thing he went to uphold?

[John Bridge]

I think it's getting warmer. I don't know whether it's a long-term trend, and I don't know the cause of the warming. How's that for good science? :D

I know for the past few years it hasn't rained a lot in the Seattle area during the summer, nor has is snowed in winter. When I was a kid up there we got rained on every time we went camping or fishing, and we all owned sleds. There's more good science. :)

This past summer I returned to Alaska after an absence of nearly fifty years. I learned that all the glaciers have receded significantly. I think that might be good science. :)

[jvcstone]

Dl posted a link (post #91 in the "global warming" thread) to a chart showing the relationship between CO2, TEMP, & Sea Level over the past 400,000 years. There is a definite spike during the last several thousand years, and taken alone, one could use it as evidence that man is responsible.

However, if one were to look at the chart as a whole, similar spikes occur at rather regular intervals about 100,000 years apart, and the current one is just about on schedual. My conclusion as a geologist is that yes, we are in a warming climate period, and man, in spite of his arrogance, has nothing to do with it.

Does that mean we should just go on as usual? I don't think so. If we could all get off of the political merry-go-round we are on, and stop subsidizing obvious boondoogles (corn to ethanol?), and the fossil fuel industry, and let a free market operate, I believe that it would not be very long before several affordable alternative energy sources would be available.

JVC

[ITO]

I don’t think the argument is whether or not there is climate change, but whether or not we are the cause.

A Good Read that really breaks it down to what is debatable and what is not:

Aliens Cause Global Warming (http://www.michaelcrichton.com/speech-alienscauseglobalwarming.html)
Michael Crichton
California Institute of Technology
Pasadena, CA
January 17, 2003

Another good article, same author:

Environmentalism as a Religion (http://cdfe.org/religion.htm)
San Francisco
September 15, 2003

Today, one of the most powerful religions in the Western World is environmentalism. Environmentalism seems to be the religion of choice for urban atheists. Why do I say it's a religion? Well, just look at the beliefs. If you look carefully, you see that environmentalism is in fact a perfect 21st century remapping of traditional Judeo-Christian beliefs and myths.

There's an initial Eden, a paradise, a state of grace and unity with nature, there's a fall from grace into a state of pollution as a result of eating from the tree of knowledge, and as a result of our actions there is a judgment day coming for us all. We are all energy sinners, doomed to die, unless we seek salvation, which is now called sustainability. Sustainability is salvation in the church of the environment. Just as organic food is its communion, that pesticide-free wafer that the right people with the right beliefs, imbibe.

Eden, the fall of man, the loss of grace, the coming doomsday---these are deeply held mythic structures. They are profoundly conservative beliefs. They may even be hard-wired in the brain, for all I know. I certainly don't want to talk anybody out of them, as I don't want to talk anybody out of a belief that Jesus Christ is the son of God who rose from the dead. But the reason I don't want to talk anybody out of these beliefs is that I know that I can't talk anybody out of them. These are not facts that can be argued. These are issues of faith.

And so it is, sadly, with environmentalism. Increasingly it seems facts aren't necessary, because the tenets of environmentalism are all about belief. It's about whether you are going to be a sinner, or saved. Whether you are going to be one of the people on the side of salvation, or on the side of doom. Whether you are going to be one of us, or one of them.