Blackwater

[Scooter]

I'm surprised that the US Government outsources the miltary.

I'm further surprised that because of existing laws insituted by the Secy of State's office (burecrat apparently had a brother on the board of Blackwater), there is no, none, zero accountability for Blackwater. They could gun down hundreds of civilians and face neither criminal, military, or civil justice. They are immune. Even the military has a Code of Conduct and soldiers can be, and are, charged for crimes committed while in service. Not so with Blackwater. The only recourse we have is cancel their contract, and with a clear nepotism and conflict of interest within the State Department, this is not gonna happen until these bums are voted out of office or Congress passes a law.

Finally, I'm surprised that the U.S. Army or Marines, Rangers, or Delta Force ain't good enough for the current Administration. If we "support our troops" why aren't they good enough to guard our government reps?

I'm not surprised that the FBI investigation today reflected that they did kill innocent civilians without justification.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/14/world/middleeast/14blackwater.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

[Sponsored Links]

[hubbard53]

i believe in 'honor' and the geneva convention so I dont necessarily agree with the justification below but can understand it.

US military abides by the 'rules of war'
US enemy does NOT abide by 'rules of war'

. . .if you can fight like a terrorist through proxy, why not? If I was a highranking official, I would rather have a ruthless bodyguard with zero rules guarding me from ruthless, rule-less enemies than the military with limited rules of engagement

[jvcstone]

Blackwater mercenaries are better equipped than our Army troops in Iraq.

Blackwater mercenaries were deployed to New Orleans before even FEMA showed up.

Blackwater recruits from outside the US also, employing ex death squad members from Columbia, Chile, Nigeria, and other places around the world.

Us military swear an oath to defend the constitution (not the administration)
Blackwater mercenaries owe allegiance to who ever is signing their paycheck (the administration)

If our current leader just happens to declare a national emergency and attempts to take over all branches of government, as he has made it his right to do in NSPD-51, and HSPD-20. Remember just who owns the private armies

JVC

[hubbard53]

wow. that's quite the conspiracy. . .

[MudMaker]

The only recourse we have is cancel their contract, and with a clear nepotism and conflict of interest within the State Department, this is not gonna happen until these bums are voted out of office or Congress passes a law.
Scooter... I am sensing some hostility here...
How long have you felt this way.

How does this make you feel?? :suspect:

[Scooter]

I had no problem with Blackwater until recently when I learned that they are essentially a private army. Heck, I don't have a problem with that until I learned that they are exempt from any and all civil criminal and military justice, by an edict by I think Paul Bremmer. So honestly, they could go out today, gun down a bunch a people and there would be no recourse whatsoever.

The head of the Secy State which supervises their contract has a brother on the Board of Directors, which was disclosed yesterday.

I feel terrible about this, but I know in my heart that Congress or the Iraqi people if they have any huevos will terminate Blackwater. I know Hillary will. So their time is gonna come ♬ ♬ ........ (with apologies to Led Zepplin)

[jvcstone]

wow. that's quite the conspiracy. .

sure it is, but entirely possible with things being the way they are right now.

Since WWII, it seems like our government has preferred dictators and strongmen over fledgling democracies abroad, so what makes you think that it can't happen here at home.

JVC :usflag:

[MudMaker]

huevos
I don't get the analogy to eggs with this statement...
I feel terrible about this, but I know in my heart that Congress or the Iraqi people if they have any eggs will terminate Blackwater. I know Hillary will. :D

[Shooter]

Hmm, I was not gonna reply to this one, but decided that I would try to give some insight. Unlike other topics I will not get into a debate over this topic so take what I have to say for whatever.

First and foremost, the incident discussed was a horrible tragedy that should never have happened. Do not confuse or paint all of Blackwater employees by the actions of 1 or 2 persons that are contained in this one incident. There are many fine ex-soldiers and fine civilian Americans who do a tough job overseas working for these types of countries. I will admit however that there may be some unsavory private contracted types doing nasty things that will never be heard of.

Having said that, IMO Blackwater grew a little too rapidly. The growing pains that the company went through has possibly compromised the overall quality of the applicants chosen for assignments.

Also remember that Blackwater is not the only game on the block and there are other companies operating domestically and overseas and providing similar services. I will admit that I feel there are better companies to work for other than Blackwater.

Please remember that Private Military Companies (PMC) employ, a great number of ex-military special forces operators to include all branches of armed forces. There are also a number of Law Enforcement SWAT type of personnel operating with these companies. Most of these people are highly motivated, upstanding warriors who still live by the code or oaths that they took while they were active.

Also the military is way undersized and spread far too thin, to be able to conduct operations world wide without the large amount of help from the PMC's. This is not something that is new, but it is definitely on the largest scale ever seen. The current active SF community is way too busy right now to be able to even come close to handling all of the needs now served by the PMC's.

Bottom line is the PMC's serve a legit and valuable service and our government would be hard pressed to even think that they could operate without them. I don't care who gets into office, this is just a fact of current logistics and manpower. I do however believe that there needs to be better accountability for crimes committed by employees who operate in foreign countries on contract.

I will unofficially speculate that other Blackwater employees present at that particular incident may have been very disgusted by what happened and perhaps 1 or 2 Blackwater guys may have been very close to getting some FF if their actions had not ceased.

[jjwq8]

Scooter,
Purely for the record, Howard Krongard is the DoS Inspector General and he has recused himself from investigating Blackwater because his brother Alvin was invited to serve on the advisory board of Blackwater and he attended what was I believe his first meeting the day before his brother Howard testified before the committee Chaired by Henry Waxman.
Howard Krongard was not per se responsible for Blackwater being awarded the contract and he was not the Contracting Officer, indeed he cannot be.
I know this because I have a personal interest in unrelated though similar issues. Check the Washington Post and Glenn Kessler's stories.

[ITO]

I think it is important to note that when American politicians from the left or right of the dial, visit Iraq they use Backwater as part of their personal security detail. When US Senator Joe Biden (D) went late last summer, even though he had full access to the US army for security he also employed staff from Blackwater. This should come as no surprise from a politician... do as say, not as I do.

[dohja4433]

Frank,
you don't know what huevos has to do with it?have you never seen any cheech n chong movies?that's balls man balls!! :stick: