Have I destroyed my tile job and marriage?

[mesahigh]

THIS JOB HAS BEEN A NIGHTMARE. I recently built our own home, and installed over 600 sq ft of beautiful ceremic tile (brown tones on the dark side) in the kitchen, nook, hall way, laundry room and powder room... The grout was a dark brown color.

However, after the grout dried, it was very inconsistent in color and appearance -- it appeared light in spots and was dark in other spots, so we removed it (yep, all of it!)... -sat there for days and scraped all the grout out! what a job.

So, we then regrouted the whole area, thinking maybe we had mixed it incorrectly - but again the grout turned light in some spots and dark in other spots. (The light grout in the rest of the house did not cause this problem -- only on the dark grout).

We then contacted the manufacturer of the grout, they suggested using a phosphoric acid cleaner to remove the effervesence from the grout lines, so we did that to every grout line. Used a diluted solution, with a small brush, and scrubbie pad and then rinsed with clear water. (We believe this caused our next big problem.)

After all that, the grout lines still looked terrible (light in some spots, dark in other spots), so this time the manufacturer sent a FREE tile colorant, and we sat for hours coloring the grout lines. Now that it is all done, the grout lines look ok, but the tile has discolorations (perhaps etched?) -- an inch or so along each grout line where we believe the acid must have damaged or etched the tile.

This drove my wife nuts, so we decided if we put a diluted coat of the acid to the whole tile, it would make it all look alike - but NO, now the major piece of the tile looks dull (as if the surface has been removed or damaged), and those darn areas on either side of the grout line still show (kind of shiney now).

Wondering if we could put a glaze over the whole mess and even out the surface, or if we will always see this damaged field of tile? Removing 600 sq ft of tile and replacing it isn't an option, but hearing my wife complain about the uneven appearance, and dull finish isn't either. HELP ME.

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[ckl111]

Yikes, what a nightmare....

I didn't want to tell you what you should have done since you did try to get advice from people who should have been knowledgeable and I don't want to make you feel worse but perhaps at least anyone else reading this can learn from your misfortune, unfortunately at your expense.

Before you used phosphoric acid or any strong acid based cleaner, you should have tested it in an inconspicuous spot or a spare tile. There is usually a warning on the bottle to do this. Yes it is what I consider a weasel clause so the manufacturer can say we warned you so it's not our fault but it's good advice none the less. You also should have tried a much weaker acid like vinegar and water before phosphoric acid as a last resort.

It sounds like you have damaged the baked on glazing of the tile and there is no way that I am aware of to fix this. Don't use any more acid based cleaners to get a more consistent look because you will weaken the tile even more. Without the protective glaze, the tile is even more susceptible than before.

The only thing I can think of to make it look a little better is to use a large floor polisher and some sort of sealer to protect the tile. I don't have a lot of experience with these chemicals so you'll have to do a little research yourself or I'm sure someone else will give you some specific product recommendations.

If you find something, you can always post here to see if anybody has used it before. Whatever you do use, try it in a small inconspicuous area first or you'll be back posting about another problem. :)

Good Luck

[mesahigh]

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THIS JOB HAS BEEN A NIGHTMARE. I am a builder and have done lots of tile in the past... I recently installed over 600 sq ft of beautiful porcelain tile (brown tones - on the dark side) in a house I built for my wife and I -- in the kitchen, nook, hall way, laundry room and powder room... The grout was also a dark brown color.

However, after the grout dried, it was very inconsistent in color and appearance -- it appeared light in spots and was dark in other spots, so we removed it (yep, all of it!)... -sat there for days and scraped all the grout out! what a job.

So, we then regrouted the whole area, thinking maybe we had mixed it incorrectly or rinsed it incorrectly - but this time we were VERY careful - but again the grout turned light in some spots and dark in other spots. (The light grout in other rooms in the house did not cause this problem -- only on the dark grout).

We then contacted the manufacturer of the grout (Daltile), they suggested using a phosphoric acid cleaner to remove the effervesence from the grout lines, so we did that to every grout line. Used a diluted solution, with a small brush, and scrubbie pad and then rinsed with clear water.

After all that, the grout lines still looked terrible (light in some spots, dark in other spots), so this time the manufacturer (Daltile) sent a FREE tile colorant, and we sat for hours coloring the grout lines. Now that it is all done, the grout lines look ok, but the tile itself has discolorations (perhaps it is etched?) -- an inch or so along each grout line where we believe the acid must have damaged or etched the tile. One person we talked to says maybe it is a residue from the colorant.. others say we have damaged the tile from the acid when we were cleaning the grout.....either way, it looks awful.

This drove my wife nuts, so we decided if we put a diluted coat of the acid to the whole tile, it would make it all look alike - but NO, now the major piece of the tile looks dull (as if the surface has been removed or damaged), and those darn areas on either side of the grout line still show (kind of shiney and lighter in color now).

So we now have two problems. -- (1) the shiney looking areas on each side of the grout line (and even places where there are "drops" of this mystery stuff on the surface of the tile), and (2) the dull tiles where we tried to "even out" the surface of the tile and make the main area look like the edges that look light and shiney.

Have we ruined the tile (especially the dull ones) or is there a hope for recovering from this comedy of errors? Also wondering if we could put a stone enhancer or some other product over the whole mess and "even out" the surface, or if we will always see this damaged field (dull in main area and shiney on edges) of tile? Removing 600 sq ft of tile and replacing it isn't an option, but hearing my wife complain about the uneven appearance, and dull finish isn't either. HELP ME. We are just sick about this.. all that work and expense, and it looks awful.

John Adcox

[Davestone]

WEllll, since i can't see it i'll guess....You may look at a piece of your original tile to see if the etched looking tile looks the same.If it does you may just have the efflorescence you cleaned off still sitting on the tile...a simple clean water rinse with a scrub brush m,ay do it.Now, for the picture framing, this could be the same scenario, or the edges may be wet underneath.Unless you've ealed it, then this would be sealer.The grout stain depending on brand should stand up to anything,and you don't want to put any sealer over the face of porcelain to blend it.Also,i don't think the phosphoric acid etched the porcelain but anything is possible.Before i tore it out i would look for a restoration specialist in your town to take a look.

[Tool Guy - Kg]

I'm with Dave thinking this might be residue. I'd do a bunch of little tests on a couple tiles to see what helps and what doesn't before plowing ahead. Concentrate on a bad area with a scrubby and some water to see if you can get it looking any better.

:)

[mesahigh]

I'm thinking ckl111 is right. I've damaged the glazing....... But this is strange since nearly every response I've received says the acid should not damage the surface of porcelain.. Maybe the first application of acid on the grout damaged it enough so that when I put the colorant on it, it went into the damaged surface.... I've tried using a scrubbie like someone suggested. I have to disagree with the idea that here is a residue left as someone suggested. This floor is several months old -- we are just not getting around to dealing with the problem -- it has been washed and cleaned several times a week.. plus all the scrubbing we've tried in the last few days... - It's just a mess. My wife is thinking she will use a bit area rug in the kitchen to hide the mess (never wanted a carpeted kitchen!)... If anyone wants to see a picture, I'd be glad to share it with you via email.

[ckl111]

Daltile is a very large reputable company. Since they gave you the advice to use the acid and sent you the grout colorant, maybe you can ask them to send a representative out to inspect your floor. I would tend to agree that the diluted acid should not have hurt the tiles so maybe you got a batch that wasn't fired properly. You never know, maybe they will share some cost to replace the tile.

It's worth trying and it will only cost you a phone call.

[ckl111]

We then contacted the manufacturer of the grout (Daltile), they suggested using a phosphoric acid cleaner to remove the effervesence from the grout lines, so we did that to every grout line. Used a diluted solution, with a small brush, and scrubbie pad and then rinsed with clear water.I was unaware that Daltile made grout. The local daltile distributor here sells mapei products.

[mesahigh]

You are correct -- the grout was only purchased at Daltile, but was manufactured by Mapei.. The grout colorant was also provided (mailed to us) by Mapei. Sorry for that mis-information.

[valleywidestonecare]

I have not yet seen a ceramic or porcelain tile etched by acid cleaners much less a dilutted one. That doesnt mean it cant happen but I havent seen it yet.

I would tend to think that you left a residue of either the cleaner or that the grout haze after you used the acid. Try just using a vinigar mixture with water to see if it cleans up some.

[Marge]

John forwarded some pics and I am posting for him. :)

[Mali]

So, what was the outcome? I have a similar problem using tile cleaner and now trying to fix it!!!!!

[mesahigh]

At the suggestion of Aqua Mix, I am going to use their Nano Scrub. I'll post the results when I get their sample.

[Davestone]

Aquamix also suggests it is possible to etch porcelain with acids,i would use their cleaner and a scrub brush.What seems weird is it's only in certain places by the pics,so maybe the cleaning will fix it.....http://www.aquamix.com/for_professionals/surface_finder/surface_finder_detail.asp?sfid=16235

[Dave Gobis]

Acid will positively etch any tile surface if used incorrectly and should always be a last resort.

[Davestone]

On the positive side, Miracle makes a ceramic polish that is used like a honing powder to refinish tile, but haven't used it myself..http://www.miraclesealants.com/pbs_porcelain_tile.html

[doitright]

Hi John :)

As previously suggested, I always recommend to TEST first. Let us know how you do with the Nano Scrub.

By the looks of the pictures Marge posted, it looks fatal. :sick:

Even so, I would not give up until all resources have been exhausted.

[mesahigh]

I contacted Aqua Mix (makers of the colorant, and the acid I used)... They sent me a sample of their product, Nano Scrub. I have used it on a few of the tile, and can see a favorable improvement in the "stains/marks" that are on the tile. In a couple of cases, the marks are completely gone. I have tried it multiple times on some of the really bad stains/marks, and although it is improved, they are not completely gone... I will attempt to get down and work each problem area soon, and let you know the over-all results. However, this is the only product that has done anything to the mess I made. So - I am encouraged that this may help. Thanks to the Aqua Mix people for sending me the sample.

[doitright]

Hi John :)

That's great news! :tup2:

How are you using the Nano Scrub? (by hand, machine, towel, etc.)

[mesahigh]

I'm using a scrubby (directions say "white", but I'm using green because that's what I have on hand, and the tile is dark brown...) -- I wet the tile, then put a glob of the Nano Scrub on the floor, and work it in circular motion, then zig it, then circular -- several ways to make sure I've attacked all angles... Then I rinse and rinse, and dry with a towel.. A buffer would probably be easier! I have a lot of tile! But this has given me a good sampling of the ability of this product to make an improvement.

[doitright]

Hi John :)

Use caution with a green pad. Some of them have silica abrasives in them and can actually do more harm than good. Do yourself a favor and try to get some white pads as suggested by the manufacturer.

[river-wear]

Yeah, those white pads are the most gentle. Back in my injection molding days they were indispensible for removing scuff marks from car door panels. :o