Granite tiles/Sealing

[jod78]

So I've got some granite tiles I'm going to lay on my kitchen countertop. I know the most ideal base for laying tiles is cement board, but having torn out 2 countertops in my house already that consisted of tile laid directly on the wood, it seems to me that this combination can definitely work. This tile was 30+ years old and was in perfect condition and the wood underneath did not have any water damage. I plan on laying the tiles with the "type 2" thinset. Is this commonly done?

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[cx]

Welcome, jod78. Please give us a first name to use.

Attaching granite directly to single-layer plywood using mastic, even on a countertop, is not at all a good installation, to my thinking. But if you feel confident that it's right for your situation, so be it. :shades:

My opinion; worth price charged.

[Brian in San Diego]

Jod,

You won't find anyone here recommend that you use mastic to "stick" granite (or any other) tile directly on plywood.

Brian

[jod78]

John. The wood underlayment is not plywood, but a hardwood of sorts. Looks to be 2" thick. There is absolutely no flex in this wood. There's a 150lb cast iron sink dropped in, if that tells you anything.

Also...a sealer. I looked at the TYW store at the "bulletproof" sealer. Will the stone sealer not suffice for the grout as well or will I need to do both? If I need both sealers, which do I do first? For instance, if I do the grout sealer first, is getting that on the stone going to effect the stone sealer? thanks

[river-wear]

The Bulletproof sealer will work fine for the grout too. Just don't let the sealer dry on the surface - if it's anything like StoneTech's Impregnator Pro, you let it sit on the surface awhile, then wipe it off. If left to dry on its own, it can leave a haze or streaks.
:goodluck:

[Marge]

Jod,

If you are going to use wood as your underlayment (which has already been advised against) please make sure you use a cement based thinset such as Versabond (found at Home Depot). Something you need to mix and is NOT pre-mixed.

Good luck. :)

[jod78]

Thanks for the input. I guess one issue is water penetration. Sure, water and wood don't get along, but with thinset and granite tiles that are kept sealed, water penetration isn't an issue...as I see it anyways. I think most would agree that adhesion to wood with a good thinset is not an issue, but any flexing of the wood can cause the bond to break. With a floor, I cannot imagine tiling on wood because of the amount of weight and traffic floors receive, but a countertop I don't see the same issues. those are my thoughts. again, thanks for the input.

[sgrandjean]

Jod,

The chance of water penetration through a sealed granite tile is less than it would be through an unsealed granite tile. I don't know of too many natural stones that will carry a 100% guantee against water penetration, even if they're sealed properly.

Cheers.

[Brian in San Diego]

John,

You've stated that the wood is not plywood. The fact that you have dimensional lumber that you plan to apply thinset and tile to is an even worse scenario. The problem has nothing to do with water on the counter, it's the rate at which different materials expand and contract. The CBU/plywood combination not only provides a suitable surface upon which tile can be set, but provides a more compatible combination of materials for the expansion/contraction cycles all materials experience. As is frequently said here, it's your house and you can do what you want. We are just trying to point out potential problems. In your case I would say that could be cracking grout and/or tile.

Brian

[chuck stevenson]

John,

Are your existing counters tile over maple butcher block?

[jod78]

Well I admit I am a novice here. I was aware that cement board was the recommended material to lay tile, but I've torn out actually 3 bathroom countertops in the last few years and all were tiled directly on probably half inch plywood and those tile jobs had to be 20+ years and were still holding up very well..no cracks or anything. So I guess tha tis what got me thinking...well maybe it's not such a bad idea after all.

No..I don't think it's any type of maple wood.

[jpolizo]

I'm a bit curious if these other countertops that did fine on wood were stone tile or ceramic tile. I know that stone is much twitchier stuff than ceramic (e.g. it has much tighter deflection specs for subfloors etc.) because of natural imperfections.

I'm gonna put granite tile on my countertop too and I'm sticking with the most conservative specs I can find because I don't want to do it again. Not to mention, the stuff was bloody expensive.

[jod78]

They were ceramic countertops. I have ripped out (but not installed) a lot of tile...walls, tub surrounds, countertops. I don't think any of it that I've torn out was installed over any type of cement board. It was either wood or sheetrock and that tile was not going anywhere..unless it was forcibly removed.

[river-wear]

I'm surprised that a 30+ year old installation wasn't a mud bed over plywood. My house is 40 years old and that's how both of our bathroom counters were done. One hell of a mess tearing out that stuff - not to mention the weight. :loaded:

Still, as jpolizo mentioned, natural stone has a lot less tolerance for deflection so it might not be as forgiving on plywood...

[jod78]

I have new granite tiles on my kitchen countertops. Everything looks great. The literature from the manufacturer of the tiles says that the tiles have already been sealed. I do not have past experience with granite, but it seems to me that these tiles are "staining" a little too easy. For instance, if the light hits the tile right, you can see some circles "burned" (for lack of a better term) into the granite where cups or glasses had sat on the countertop. It seems around the kitchen sink area where a lot of dishes are done, there's a lot of haziness to the granite. The idea of using an enhancer seems appealing to me. The granite looks great, but doesn't really seem to "pop" that much. But..if these are sealed, I don't really see how I'm going to be able to do anything like that. I did take a piece adn test it by letting water stand on it for 10 minutes. The water was still pooled up after 10 min and did not soak in. On the other hand, you leave a glass on the counter for 10 minutes and it leaves an imprint of a circle. Any ideas?

[jod78]

I have new granite tiles on my kitchen countertops. Everything looks great. The literature from the manufacturer of the tiles says that the tiles have already been sealed. I do not have past experience with granite, but it seems to me that these tiles are "staining" a little too easy. For instance, if the light hits the tile right, you can see some circles "burned" (for lack of a better term) into the granite where cups or glasses had sat on the countertop. It seems around the kitchen sink area where a lot of dishes are done, there's a lot of haziness to the granite. The idea of using an enhancer seems appealing to me. The granite looks great, but doesn't really seem to "pop" that much. But..if these are sealed, I don't really see how I'm going to be able to do anything like that. I did take a piece adn test it by letting water stand on it for 10 minutes. The water was still pooled up after 10 min and did not soak in. On the other hand, you leave a glass on the counter for 10 minutes and it leaves an imprint of a circle. Any ideas?

[sgrandjean]

Jod,

The tiles may have been sealed. I'm guessing they weren't sealed correctly. Let's see if we can't get a good opinion from one of the pros shortly.

Cheers.

[Mike2]

Do those water rings disappear over time?

By the way, I combined three of the threads you've started on this countertop so we can see the history. So, going back to your earlier posts, did you end up setting the tile directly onto plywood using Type-2 mastic?

[jod78]

Yeah, sorry I posted it in one forum and reazlied it should have been in another. No, the tile is on hardibacker using...ultraflex 2 thinset from mapei. The granite is black with a lot of browns in it. You have to look hard to see the water spots, but you can see them with the right light. I'm confused as to why it's showing these circles when they are supposedly sealed. I'd like to use an enhancer and reseal them myself, but I don't know how to go about this. I did the water test on a spare tile and like I said, it did not seem to soak in after several minutes.

No, the water rings have not disappeared. Tried wiping them off with aquamix stone cleaner, but it did not work.

[doitright]

Hi John :)

Can you post a picture (of the water spots)? :shades: