Guns and the people who own them

[jboyle]

Thought you guys might like to see some everyday, average Americans who exercise their right to own a gun. Click on the picture in the link.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20178856/site/newsweek/?GT1=10252

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[kate42]

Jason :wave:

Very interesting. I didn't realize that many Americans owned guns. I am assuming these are legal guns. I've never owned a gun. At this stage of my life I probably never will. :)

[tileguytodd]

Jason........Were you making a Point? :shrug:

Its nice to know so many Americans are Armed..........Should give Pause to a few of the unsavory element out there.

Be a Responsible Gun Owner.......OR..........Be a Victim!!!

Baseball bats & Tire Irons KILL same as a gun.
Guns dont kill people
People Kill People........guns are a tool, same as a screwdriver.
Almost any tool CAN be a weapon

Quit defending the criminal
In minnesota if someone breaks into my home I have to flee to the furthest point and let them take anything they want...I can not legally shoot them unless they pursue me and I feel a threat to my life or the lives of my loved ones.

WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!

YES, this is the law in this state.........If somebody breaks into my home and I shoot them to protect my home, my property and my family ;

I WILL GO TO JAIL!!!!

And you wonder why Crime is so rampant in this country.

Start hanging a few and watch how fast violent crime falls off!!!

[Oldrem]

AMEN Todd ! At least here in Wisconsin I can shoot the intruder - as long as he dies INSIDE my home I'm legal.

When law abiding citizens are disarmed only criminals will have guns.

[ddmoit]

YES, this is the law in this state.........If somebody breaks into my home and I shoot them to protect my home, my property and my family ;

I WILL GO TO JAIL!!!!

Only if someone finds out about it. :shades:

[Trask]

That was anti-climactic for me too....As if it's surprising that a "wide range of Americans choose to bear arms" Honestly I was surprised by the fact that everyone doesn't have a gun. My whole life I've owned rifles , shotguns and handgunsand used them regularly. I think I have 15-20 guns at any given time at my house ..That's just par fore the course here...Everyone and I mean everyone I know has a shotgun by the door of their bedroom...And ya know what...we dont' lock our doors here...and I can't think of the last residential robbery that took place near me....

I grew up with a rifle in my hand shooting after school for fun in the woods. ..I can't even remember having to ever ask permission to grab my .22 and go plinkin' even at 12years old. We also never had accident ..I think in large part I was taught great reverence for what guns do.

[Westie]

number of people that I know that own a gun : 0

number of people I know that have had a break in : 1 (no one home durring the day)

number of people I know that were mugged : 0

number of people that I know that were ever threated by someone with a gun or other weapon : 0


In a civillized society there is no need for guns :blah: :blah: :blah:

[Just Some Guy]

If someone breaks into my house to take my VCR, I'm certainly not going to kill him lol - heck take the TV while you're at it - I'm insured :P (and if you don't take the TV, at least toss it into the pool so that I get a new one ;) )

I used to work in audio/video, and we'd see insurance claimants whose homes were broken into, but I personally don't know anyone in my circle of friends who had a break-in - the break-ins we get here are normally during the day or when the homeowner is on vacation - I've never heard of a home-invasion or anything like that here - heck I leave the door unlocked half the time.

To me human life is worth more than my answering machine.

[Trask]

All the same I 'll still be keeping my guns near the bed ;) For the once in two lifetimes it may happen...I ain't willing to play the odds on my wife or kids.

[ddmoit]

According to this fairly well respected study, guns are used defensively to stop crime over 2 million times a year in the United States.

http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdguse.html

Only a small fraction of these incidents are ever reported to the police, and a smaller fraction still is reported in the media.

[e3]

WESTIE-
number of people I know that own a gun---100s (almost everyone)
number of people I know that have had break in --a couple
number of people I know that were mugged -1
number of people I know threatened--0
NUMBER OF PEOPLE I KNOW WITH A GUN ,WHO HAVE SHOT SOMEONE--0

[CharlieM]

I'm not sure what the point of the issue is. I own guns to hunt with, or plink with. They don't stay loaded in the house. Thankfully, I've never had to use one to defend myself or others against people, but would if I had to. I have a nice bow too. It's just as deadly and accurate as my pistol, but a little more bulky.

And as Todd said, I have the usual assortment of pocket knives, tire-irons, screw drivers, kitchen knives, silverware and any number of other gadgets that could be used to kill or hurt people if that was the agenda.

I grew up with guns and learned some responsibility. The surest way to remove personal responsibility is to put the social engineers in charge of the government so they can save the rest of us the trouble.

[Eric Philson]

About 60% of the worlds small arms are owned by US citizens. I can't believe it's only 60%. Go figure. :shrug:

Number of people I know who have been robbed, mugged or otherwise accosted....only a small handful.

Number of people I know who own guns....about 98%

Number of people who don't rob, mug, or otherwise accost other people because they might get shot....undeterminable.

Number of people I know who would rob, mug and accost others if they could get away with it.....dozens.

[jboyle]

Todd,

My point was that many different types of people own guns, and for many different reasons. I'm amazed that so many of my friends have no idea about laws, safety, or any of the positive aspects of gun ownership. They only know what they here on the news or read in the paper (90% negative).

I grew up with guns, and have been an NRA member for quite awhile. I love to hunt and shoot, and keep a gun in virtually every room of my house because you just never know.

In VA we have the same ridiculous law about retreating. It doesn't bother me because I figure if there is only ONE story who's to say you weren't running away.

As for letting someone leave with electronics or something petty from my house...can't do it. If you break into my house I'm sorry to say that you won't be leaving.

Here's my theory: It may be that you are only at my house THIS time to steal electronics, but what happens when I am not home. My wife might be home alone, and for whatever reason unable to defend herself. Another possibility is that the guy that I let go goes down the street and rapes and murders some little girl because she woke up while he was stealing her DVD player.

I realize that we can play the game of "what ifs" all day and just be running in circles, but in the end I feel like Trask. I'm just not willing to make that bet when it involves someone I love.

So there you have my two cents for what it's worth...I just like a spirited debate. :talk:

[opiethetileman]

in florida you can no shoot someone if they try to enter your vechile. I own a large selection of firearms a little over 100 and keep 5 in the house everything else is locked up or broke down. I sleep with an AR 15 next to my bed and a shootgun by the front door. Trust me if I had to shoot someone they will be signal 86 and a toe tag placed on them and set by the road till the sherrif comes. everyone on my street loves me when my dogs bark in the middle of the nite I strap on the nite vision and grab a toy and go scout it out. I have caught about 6 or 8 burgalras in the middle of the nite. but todd is rite is not the gun that kills people its the one holding it. anything can be a serours weapon how it is used.

[Rd Tile]

Nice photos of the kids holding the guns, real bright. :bonk: :mad:

Having an unlocked loaded gun in the house with kids is just sick, having one next to the bed isn't much better, when your husband or wife walks in after going to the bathroom in the middle of the night and your judgement sucks cause your half asleep and you think it's an intruder. :shrug:

[flatfloor]

Rich you, your spouse, and kids should wear a bell around your neck at night. :idea:

[Rob Z]

Richie,

Please explain what is inherently wrong with children holding guns, shooting guns, hunting with guns, etc....as long as they are properly supervised.

Yes, you're right, someone might mistake someone in the middle of the night and start shooting. To do so would then violate one of the fundamental rules of owning and shooting a gun: know what you are shooting at before you pull the trigger. Another rule: only point a gun at someone if you are ready to shoot them.

When the intruder started coming into my house, it was the middle of the night, and I was 100% alert immediately. The adrenelin ensured that.

I said this on another thread: I do know someone that used a handgun to defend himself and his employees. I am very glad that my friend and his employees are still alive the attempted murderer is not.

[e3]

I'll add for what its worth----I have a freind who is FBI ,he told me that the thing to do is make the first shot (the one in the chamber) a blank!!
If you ever hear someone in the house "scream" I GOT A GUN" and pull the trigger..they will most likily get out in a hurry ..if they dont, the next is real!!!
whats good about this is #1 you really dont want to shot someone and #2 cleaning up blood is no fun what so ever..

[Davy]

I agree with many of the others and like Jason said in post 14, the guy that breaks in my house at 3:00 am is usually the same guy that has (or is going to) rape the kid down the street or break into their house. I value human life but not everyone's. These skum bags need to be shot and I'll try my best to make it a very bad day for the guy that breaks in my house to harm or steal from my family.

[Beaux]

Yep, I agree with the gun owners. Like most I owned guns from a early age, and still own a assortment of guns. Love to shoot and hunt. Yet, here in south east Texas there is no "retreat law". You can shoot a man for prowling after dark on you land if you feel treatened or if he's got your rake in his hand. Much less if I catch him in my house! Beter him then me or mine. Besides dead men talk a lot less crap in court. :lol2:

[Oldrem]

WHY THE GUN IS CIVILIZATION..

By Maj. L. Caudill USMC (Ret)

Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. If you want me to do something for you, you have a choice of either convincing me via argument, or force me to do your bidding under threat of force. Every human interaction falls into one of those two categories, without exception. Reason or force, that's it.

In a truly moral and civilized society, people exclusively interact through persuasion. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.

When I carry a gun, you cannot deal with me by force. You have to use reason and try to persuade me, because I have a way to negate your threat or employment of force. The gun is the only personal weapon that puts a 100-pound woman on equal footing with a 220-pound mugger, a 75-year old retiree on equal footing with a 19-year old gang banger, and a single gay guy on equal footing with a carload of drunk guys with baseball bats. The gun removes the disparity in physical strength, size, or numbers between a potential attacker and a defender.

There are plenty of people who consider the gun as the source of bad force equations. These are the people who think that we'd be more civilized if all guns were removed from society, because a firearm makes it easier for a [armed] mugger to do his job. That, of course, is only true if the mugger's potential victims are mostly disarmed either by choice or by legislative fiat--it has no validity when most of a mugger's potential marks are armed. People who argue for the banning of arms ask for automatic rule by the young, the strong, and the many, and that's the exact opposite of a civilized society. A mugger, even an armed one, can only make a successful living in a society where the state has granted him a force monopoly.

Then there's the argument that the gun makes confrontations lethal that otherwise would only result in injury. This argument is fallacious in several ways. Without guns involved, confrontations are won by the physically superior party inflicting overwhelming injury on the loser. People who think that fists, bats, sticks, or stones don't constitute lethal force watch too much TV, where people take beatings and come out of it with a bloody lip at worst. The fact that the gun makes lethal force easier works solely in favor of the weaker defender, not the stronger attacker. If both are armed, the field is level. The gun is the only weapon that's as lethal in the hands of an octogenarian as it is in the hands of a weight lifter. It simply wouldn't work as well as a force equalizer if it wasn't both lethal and easily employable.

When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force. It removes force from the equation...and that's why carrying a gun is a civilized act.

[ddmoit]

Says Eric, quoting Major Caudill:
Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. If you want me to do something for you, you have a choice of either convincing me via argument, or force me to do your bidding under threat of force. Every human interaction falls into one of those two categories, without exception. Reason or force, that's it.

In a truly moral and civilized society, people exclusively interact through persuasion. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction...

I can agree with that. I will also insist that the source of all government power is force rather than persuasion.

[sdaniels7114]

The old chestnut about how outlawing guns means only outlaws will have guns is fallacious. Sig Sauer, Colt, Remington etc don't sell to criminals and you'd have a real hard time of it going into a police station or military base and coming away with even one gun. The criminals get their guns from people who keep a gun in every room of their house for protection and aren't home 24/7. So it becomes self-perpetuating, responding to the need for a gun is what requires you to have one.

I completely respect the notion of taking personal responsibility for your own protection; but there has to be a better way. The worst part is that the left assumes the right won't be happy until they're allowed to carry an MX missile in their sock and the right assumes the left won't be happy until laws are enacted banning sticking a nail in an old board. Some sort middle-ground that's not much different than the status quo might really make life safer.

[opiethetileman]

lol E3 my first round is a hoolow point kevlar cutter and 2 nd round is a tracer third round is a reg hollow point. after the first one doenst kill em the 2nd will burn them and the third will just tickle. But to be honest the worst calliber weapon to shot with is a 22 because it bounces around inside human flesh. a 223 round will go rite thru it and the 45 will just blow a large hole in them and push them back about 4 to 5 feet if they are close to you. it was a trench gun in ww2 and is still the heavyist hitter for a concealed carry gun

[Eric Philson]

No retreat law in my state either. :yipee: :clap2:

where do I sign up for that MX missle? Where's the constitution state that I can only own a pistol and a rifle...and a stick and a fork?

[Eric Philson]

I completely respect the notion of taking personal responsibility for your own protection; but there has to be a better way.

I'm open to a better way, please describe one.

[HS345]

The old chestnut about how outlawing guns means only outlaws will have guns is fallacious. Sig Sauer, Colt, Remington etc don't sell to criminals and you'd have a real hard time of it going into a police station or military base and coming away with even one gun. The criminals get their guns from people who keep a gun in every room of their house for protection and aren't home 24/7. So it becomes self-perpetuating, responding to the need for a gun is what requires you to have one.

If guns are outlawed (and that's a big IF), how do you propose law enforcement will get the vast amounts of firearms already in the hands of criminals? Talk about fallacious.

BTW Eric (Oldrem) :goodpost: :tup2: :usflag: :wave:

[flatfloor]

The criminals get their guns from people who keep a gun in every room of their house for protection and aren't home 24/7

Steve, there are people who make a very good living driving down south buying guns down there and reselling in your state and mine. .

[Shooter]

Where do some of you get your info on firearms, ballistics and tactics. Good grief Charlie Brown. :scratch: :shake:

[Richard Tunison]

I think Eric's commentary(s) sums up firearm ownership.

As a youngster I also grew up around firearms and was taught respect for them and what they can do. I actually taught marksmanship for merit badges in the Scouts/ Explorers. Anyhow, In rural Fl. in the 50's some still wore a sidearm as part of dressing in the morning. Snakes (large poisionous ones)and other vermin were a constant. My first rifle was a Remmington single shot 22. Paid for it myself collecting bottles and used to love to go plinking out in the glades'. I NEVER shot at wild life for the fun of it, but wild duck was another story as Mom could make a dinner and it was delicious. Here is the LIGHTER part of the story. I'm walking down an old levy and see a duck up on the bank.......... waaaaaaay far away. Now, I know I'm going to hunt the duck anyhow so just for kicks I leveled the .22 at my hip and fired. Whoooaaaaa...... a little puff of feathers. Turns out the shot hit that duck in the head. Clean kill. Great dinner without having to clean out shot. My only regret is no one was there to see it!!!

[Davy]

I think I've told this story before but it's been a while so I'll tell it again. I had a helper about ten years ago that was raised by an A-1 hillbilly of a dad. They always had guns around the house and it was nearly normal for him to carry a handgun with him at times. He told me about when he was in High school and got ahold of a starter pistol (only shoots blanks for track meets). He brought it home one day and walked up to his dad while he was sitting at the table eating and said "dad, I don't like you anymore" and started shooting. Of course his dad flipped out, the table went over and food went everywhere. I asked him what happened next, he shook his head and said "dad nearly killed me". I can laugh now but I bet it wasn't very funny when it happened. :D

[Oldrem]

My Grandpa, Dad, older brother and I were entering a woods for some squirrel hunting one day all carrying .22 rifles. About 10 yards into the woods a pheasant took flight in front of gramps - bang - one dead pheasant in flight with a .22.

When I told gramps what a great shot I thought he was, he said "son, you should have seen your grandma shoot when she was younger". When they lived in the west they'd shoot jack rabbits on the run with pistols. He said no one could shoot straighter and faster than grandma with a .38 revolver.

[Dave Hessel]

I wouldn't want to blast anyone, like most decent folks. But like Trask said, "the 12 gauge is by the bed", along with the 45-70. My guns are for hunting, home protection, and cougar protection when I'm taking walks in the woods. All my neighbors are retired folks with lots of guns, and we all keep an eye on each others places. I wouldn't mind having Davy or Opie as neighbors too. If I lived in the city, I'd carry a piece.

[Trask]

" I got a shotgun, a rifle and a 4 wheel drive and a country boy can survive"


Not far from the truth around here..guns are fun. :shrug: They put meat in the freezer, wholesome smiles on our faces, teach our kids good values and if need be can be used to defend ourselfs.

[ddmoit]

Gun Free Zone (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeo05uPMmn4)

[Rob Z]

So that's all it will take? :suspect:

[ddmoit]

Hey, it works in all of our schools.... on most days. :uhh:

[Oldrem]

Harvard Journal Study of Worldwide Data Obliterates Notion that Gun Ownership Correlates with Violence
Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy Confirms that Reducing Gun Ownership by Law-Abiding Citizens Does Nothing to Reduce Violence Worldwide

By now, any informed American is familiar with Dr. John R. Lott, Jr.'s famous axiom of "More Guns, Less Crime." In other words, American jurisdictions that allow law-abiding citizens to exercise their Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms are far safer and more crime-free than jurisdictions that enact stringent "gun control" laws.

Very simply, the ability of law-abiding citizens to possess firearms has helped reduce violent crime in America.

Now, a Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy study shows that this is not just an American phenomenon. According to the study, worldwide gun ownership rates do not correlate with higher murder or suicide rates. In fact, many nations with high gun ownership have significantly lower murder and suicide rates.

In their piece entitled Would Banning Firearms Reduce Murder and Suicide? A Review of International and some Domestic Evidence, Don B. Kates and Gary Mauser eviscerate "the mantra that more guns mean more deaths and that fewer guns, therefore, mean fewer deaths." In so doing, the authors provide fascinating historical insight into astronomical murder rates in the Soviet Union during the Cold War, and they dispel the myths that widespread gun ownership is somehow unique to the United States or that America suffers from the developed world's highest murder rate.

To the contrary, they establish that Soviet murder rates far exceeded American murder rates, and continue to do so today, despite Russia's extremely stringent gun prohibitions. By 2004, they show, the Russian murder rate was nearly four times higher than the American rate.

More fundamentally, Dr. Kates and Dr. Mauser demonstrate that other developed nations such as Norway, Finland, Germany, France and Denmark maintain high rates of gun ownership, yet possess murder rates lower than other developed nations in which gun ownership is much more restricted.

For example, handguns are outlawed in Luxembourg, and gun ownership extremely rare, yet its murder rate is nine times greater than in Germany, which has one of the highest gun ownership rates in Europe. As another example, Hungary's murder rate is nearly three times higher than nearby Austria's, but Austria's gun ownership rate is over eight times higher than Hungary's. "Norway," they note, "has far and away Western Europe's highest household gun ownership rate (32%), but also its lowest murder rate. The Netherlands," in contrast, "has the lowest gun ownership rate in Western Europe (1.9%) ... yet the Dutch gun murder rate is higher than the Norwegian."

Dr. Kates and Dr. Mauser proceed to dispel the mainstream misconception that lower rates of violence in Europe are somehow attributable to gun control laws. Instead, they reveal, "murder in Europe was at an all-time low before the gun controls were introduced." As the authors note, "strict controls did not stem the general trend of ever-growing violent crime throughout the post-WWII industrialized world."

Citing England, for instance, they reveal that "when it had no firearms restrictions [in the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries], England had little violent crime." By the late 1990s, however, "England moved from stringent controls to a complete ban on all handguns and many types of long guns." As a result, "by the year 2000, violent crime had so increased that England and Wales had Europe's highest violent crime rate, far surpassing even the United States." In America, on the other hand, "despite constant and substantially increasing gun ownership, the United States saw progressive and dramatic reductions in criminal violence in the 1990s."

Critically, Dr. Kates and Dr. Mauser note that "the fall in the American crime rate is even more impressive when compared with the rest of the world," where 18 of the 25 countries surveyed by the British Home Office suffered violent crime increases during that same period.

Furthermore, the authors highlight the important point that while the American gun murder rate often exceeds that in other nations, the overall per capita murder rate in other nations (including other means such as strangling, stabbing, beating, etc.) is oftentimes much higher than in America.

The reason that gun ownership doesn't correlate with murder rates, the authors show, is that violent crime rates are determined instead by underlying cultural factors. "Ordinary people," they note, "simply do not murder." Rather, "the murderers are a small minority of extreme antisocial aberrants who manage to obtain guns whatever the level of gun ownership" in their society.

Therefore, "banning guns cannot alleviate the socio-cultural and economic factors that are the real determinants of violence and crime rates." According to Dr. Kates and Dr. Mauser, "there is no reason for laws prohibiting gun possession by ordinary, law-abiding, responsible adults because such people virtually never commit murder. If one accepts that such adults are far more likely to be victims of violent crime than to commit it, disarming them becomes not just unproductive but counter-productive."

John Lott couldn't have stated it better himself.

Here's a link to the entire study: http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf

[ddmoit]

:)

[bamadave]

My godfather was sheriff of Jefferson County Alabama for 33 years. On my 16 birthday, he gave me my 1st pistol, a Smith and Wesson SS M#60 .38.
With it came 3 rules.
1- You rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.
2- If you pull the gun out, use it.
3- I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
I still live by those words and thankfully, have never had to challenge them.

Dave

[ddmoit]

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20071019/D8SC05M80.html

When police arrived, Bullock complained about being forced to clean the home at gunpoint.

[Shooter]

I would have made him clean up the home also!


















Then shot him!

[ddmoit]

http://www.a-human-right.com/

[Davestone]

Been around guns most of my life,used to love them when i was young, had my first rifle when i was 14.Shot my first squirrel with a 16 gauge when i was 12,i think that's where my hearing went. :eek: Never shot anyone,but drew a bead on a few as an m.p.Been shot at,that's pretty scary. :D I was taught right and never got in a situation.I keep my guns in a gun closet cause of the kids, this place used to be open country,but now it's grown out, and there's hardly anywhere to even take the kids out and teach them about guns anymore.

[Tim K]

you can think of firearms like health insurance. hope you never use it but it's comfortating to know it's there. best home protection weapon is a pump shotgun. EVERYONE know the sound of that action working, you don't have to be that good, and you don't have to worry about the bullet going through a wall and hitting an innocent. my kids have been raised with firearms since they were old enough to walk. DONT hid the guns from kids, teach them how to use them properly. Kids will always find what you hide, ALWAYS. Take the mystery from the firearm, and it's not as fun to get into when the folks are away. As far as "civilized" countrys not needing them is a load of crap!!!! Part of the responisibilty of a gun owner is to keep the government in check. I dont claim to ba a match for the military, but look at what gurilla warfare has done in other countrys. Just a thought. I always have a pistol under the seat of the pickup, thought everyone does? I belive that every female that travels alone should carry, and know how to us it.