Barry Bonds

[kate42]

:wave:

Is there anyone rooting for Barry Bonds to break Hank Aarons homerun record? :shake:

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[chuck stevenson]

Kathleen,

Love you avitar.

Barry Bonds id no different than any modern day athelete/performer. If and when he did use currently banned substances he is not alone. Years ago Brady Anderson of the Baltimore(Charm City) Orioles hit over 50HRs. First over 50 season in a lnog while. He was ripped. Kinda like a thin David Bromstad. Do you remember Boog Powell? Frank Howard? Frank Robinson? I am dating myself?

[kate42]

Chuck :wave:
Love you aviter.
Thankyou. :)

If and when he did use currently banned substances he is not alone.It doesn't make it right that he'll get into the hall of Fame and others will be denied the same honor for doing the same thing. :mad:
I remember Brady Anderson and that one great year he had. makes you wondwr what he was using that year. :shrug:
Do you remember Boog Powell? Frank Howard? Frank Robinson?
Yes I remember all of them. I'm a long time Mets fan. so I remember the 1969 World Series and Boog Powell. The second baseman Davy Johnson went on to become the Mets manager in the 80s. Frank Howard also managed the Mets.I can even tell you about the Brooklyn Dodgers, so now I'm dating myself :D

[Bugman]

How about the Milwaukee Braves? :yeah:

[jvcstone]

Philadelphia Athletics???

!950 Wiz Kids???

:gerg:

JVC

[chuck stevenson]

Kathleen,

How do you remember Brady Anderson? He was overshadowed by Cal Ripken.

I caddied for Jesse Sweetser.

[kate42]

Chuck :wave:

Brady Anderson was an average player who had one super year and could not do it again for the rest of his career. In the year he hit 50 HRs he overshadowed Cal Ripken. Homerun hitters attract more attention. I am a baseball fan and Brady Anderson stands out in my mind. The fact that he never came close to hitting 50 HRs again makes one wonder what he was taking that year. I do believe another Baltimore player accused Anderson of taking enhancement drugs, but later retracted that statement. :rolleyes:
I caddied for Jesse Sweetser
I assume you are talking about the amateur golfer. Where and when did you do that? He must have been really up there in years when you caddied for him. :)
How about the Milwaukee Braves?
The Boston Braves? :D :D

[jay f]

Chicago Cardinals? :)

[chuck stevenson]

Kathleen,

I caddied Jesse Sweetser back in the late '60s at Burning Tree Club in Bethesda MD. As you know he was the first American to win the British Amateur. He also one the US amatuer in the '20s as well.

[Shaughnn]

Let him swing his bat and win a few games but keep him out of the Hall of Fame unless he can prove he did it without steroids. If I take a motorcycle to a bicycle race, then I'll have a better chance of winning but why should I expect to be celebrated for the victory? The Hall of Fame should be for those players who brought greatness to the game, and not include the notorious.
Perhaps such a decision would provide the missing incentive younger players (including high school and younger) need to avoid using steroids or other performance enhancing substances?
Shaughnn

[LGB]

All I can say is WOW. What ever happened to the presumption of innocence?

[Shaughnn]

Leon,
The presumption of innocence applies to the United States judicial system. The court of public opinion has never ever been so generous. And the court of private enterprise is down-right draconian when it comes to protecting their own self-interests. In this instance, the Hall of Fame is a private enterprise meant to promote the "warm fuzzy feeling" that we all have/had/have lost when it comes to the "American Pastime"(tm).
Barry is welcome to hire all of the lawyers he wants to silence the whistle-blowers in his locker room and to get accusations dismissed on "technicalities". It's his right as an American citizen. But I don't have to like him. I don't have to support him. I don't have to be nice to him. And I certainly don't have to hold him up to the true greats of the sport of baseball as one of their peers simply because he has been able to "game the game". Would he be eligible in your mind if the fence line was moved 30 yards infield every time he got up to bat and moved back out for the rest of the players at bat?
Shaughnn

[Shooter]

He is an ass plain and simple. Not a good role model or IMO, someone who deserves a title as great as the one he is shooting for, in a game that means so much to so many.

[kate42]

Shaughnn :wave:

:goodpost:

[Davy]

It's hard for me to get excited for Barry and all his home runs, he lacks class in my opinion.

[kate42]

Davy :wave:
It's hard for me to get excited for Barry and all his home runs, he lacks class in my opinion.
The only excitment is from the news media. I don't believe there are many baseball fans who are excited about him breaking the record (except the fans in SF). Even Henry Aaron doesn't care. :rolleyes:

[LGB]

I'm gonna plead ignorance on this one as I don't really follow baseball. :) I figured , if he was quilty of steroid use he wouldn't be playing and therefore wouldn't be breaking any records...

[kate42]

Leon :wave:

if he was quilty of steroid use he wouldn't be playing and therefore wouldn't be breaking any records...

They can't prove it. :bang:

[dontnomuch]

To answer the original question, I don't root for Barry Bonds to break the record because I'm a Dodger fan and i hate the Giants. Secondly, as many people have already stated, he is not a likeable person so most people don't root for him (outside of S.F.).

However, I still think he deserves to go to the Hall of Fame for several reasons. 1) He is still an amazing player regardless of steroid use or not. Remember, baseball is not just about hitting HR as there are other aspects of the game. Bonds is a 8 time gold glover. 2) He is still presumed innocent until guilty. No one has yet proved him guilty. 3) Even if he is guilty of steroids, steroids were not illegal in major league baseball. So how can you single out Bonds when it seems now that steroid use was so prevalent. How can we be sure that any of the more recent Hall of Famers never used performance enhancing drugs. The answer is we can't. Even Barry (although appearance seems to indicate otherwise) has to be presumed innocent until proven guilty.

Don't get me wrong though, I really can't stand Bonds. I hope he does not break Aaron's record. I hope every opposing pitcher just pitches around Bonds and doesn't give him another pitch to hit out.

[Scooter]

He'll break the record, and a handful of people will care. Most won't.

He will be remembered for his drug use. I don't believe it is in question, as his source ratted him out. The Grand Jury has been extended, and I look forward to him being indicted, convicted, and jailed.

Hall of Fame? Sorry guys, that is subjective, and voted on by players, most of whom hate his guts. If he can convince them, fine and dandy, but I doubt it. If he was truly interested in the Hall of Fame, as opposed to his own pocketbook or glory, he'd be out there with kids signing baseballs.

A-Rod will break that record at the pace he is going.

[chuck stevenson]

Scooter,

The Hall of Fame is voted on by the Baseball Writers Association.

[Scooter]

Well, that tears it--the press hate Barry more than the players.

[sdaniels7114]

Bonds admitted to using Steroids. He just denied knowing that 'the cream' and 'the clear' were Steroids when he took 'em :suspect:

Its not so much that he took Steroids. A lot of players did at one time and I think its the ones who didn't who should be praised rather than vilifying the ones who did. My beef with him is that he won't bow out gracefully, as well as the fact that he's a real ass.

Brady Anderson's big season is just one more thing that really stinks about Steroids. Sure its suspect; but lots of guys have career years only once in their careers. Is everyones' best year during the Steroid era gonna have an asterisk next to it?

[nforcer2]

I will be glad to see him break it. Just cause he is an ass doesnt mean he isnt the best player to lace them up in the last 20 years and one of the best ever.

[flatfloor]

Just cause he is an ass

That's not the point, the point is he used an illegal substance to accomplish it.

Ted Williams and Ty Cobb didn't play nice with the media and teammates but they didn't cheat.

[nforcer2]

If you are going to put an asterik on his then you better put one of all of baseball for the last 2 decades. And i challenge you to go take a cycle of steroids them hit 40 home runs in the major leagues. If you are naive enough to think that this hasnt been going on since the 70s then you are just really out of touch. He hasnt done anything that the rest of pro sports isnt doing, he just did it better. And you dont know if they cheated any more than if Barry did, you are just assuming. do you have positive test results?

[flatfloor]

Robert, of course it has been going on.

Let me ask a question; is it possible some easy out fly balls went a little further than they should because of steroids?

BTW here's a before and after I suppse the difference is due to a late growth spurt. :)

[nforcer2]

i graduated high school at 135 and now i weigh 200 and i havent taken a thing. how much weight have you gained in 20 years? take some steroids then go hit a 95 mph fastball then call me.

[kate42]

Robert

I gained weight after I graduated from high school and I did not look like Bobby Bonds. :D :D

[flatfloor]

Now who's being naive, are you saying he didn't take steroids and they didn't enhance his performance?

Yes I put om weight but my head didn't get any bigger and no I can't hit on a major league level. Bonds was an exceptionally talented ball player but not that powerful.

[nforcer2]

We will have to agree to disagree. If we are all doing it, then i dont think it is cheating. And since when do steroids make your head bigger? Shrinks your nads but makes your head swell....makes sense to me i guess

Emmit Smith was probably on roids too, we better put an asterik on his record in football. And I think Richard Petty took amphetamines to help him stay awake in the car during those long races.

And i would wager money that you have an arguement for why Rose SHOULD be in the fall of fame, right?

[flatfloor]

You'd lose never took one on Pete, never did take one on Bonds yet either. :)

[Scooter]

If we are all doing it, then i dont think it is cheating. I don't think everyone in baseball is doing it. But those who are, should be punished. If there is a God, I hope he is indicted, convicted, and jailed.

Thankfully, George Bush won't pardon the guy.

And yes, to the extent that we can prove to satisfaction to the Commissioner of Baseball, the Sportswriters, or to a Jury, then every player who took steroids should be punished and have his records astericked.

[sdaniels7114]

One thing's for sure, nobody would take them if the benefits didn't exist and weren't concrete. Any doctor will be happy to explain all the really bad things that happen to someone who uses 'em. So the fact that a whole slew of already wealthy people with access to the best medical advice and with every reason in the world to live have used them blows a giant hole in the 'they don't help' argument. Its not like anyone has to test for the presence of rat poison or drain cleaner in the players' systems.

[nforcer2]

Many media members and fans want to turn BARRY BONDS into the BOOGY MAN WHO RUINED BASBALL...but Gaylord Perry can write a book on how HE CHEATED and get in the HALL OF FAME..Roger Clemens gets a pass from just about everybody(BUT JASON GRISMLEY)about how HIS body has CHANGED! not to mention all the ampheamine(greenies & red devil)users for the last 5 decades(if not longer!)that has been in the game...In the mean time, the same "media members" & "fans' don't seem to care about the racists(which was all of the entire major league before 1947),the alcoholics, womanizers, wife-beaters, bat-corkers and worst...So Hall-of-Famer, Joe Morgan and I share the same feeling...NAME THEM ALL,(not just in this era but for the last 100 plus years)OR(my words now)SHUT-UP,CLEAN-UP(the game)AND MOVE ON!!!! NAME NOBODY,

[flatfloor]

I thought I was the only one suspecting Clemmens. Thank you. When he threw that bat Piazza it was pure 'roid rage.

[Scooter]

It was just flax seed oil. :rofl:

Barry Bonds has essentially admitted the taking of steroids, so don't try to say it hasn't been proved. Two journalists accused him of it, and he never sued them for libel. Actually he did, but dismissed it, like a month later.

He's admitted taking the drugs supplied by Balco which were in fact Steroids. Now he says he though they were just flax seed oil and didn't know that they were steroids. Yeah, right. Do you really believe that horspucky?

[nforcer2]

Again, if youre going to call out one, call them all out. If not, leave it be.

[Shaughnn]

Robert,
IF not by this example, how would you propose that the MLB switch gears and clean up their act? It's a well-established legacy of abuse but so is incest in some cultures. If you don't draw the line and call someone out as a fall guy for the rest of baseball's ills, how will they EVER reform?
But aside from that, I still don't think he's "Hall of Fame"(tm) quality. There is no contribution to the game except as fallout from his own self-promotion. He plays for himself. He is removed from his team by his own choice, and they don't mind that at all. He makes no effort to promote the game outside of his contracted obligations. He denigrates the spirit of the game by his behavior and notoriety. Why isn't Pete Rose in the "Hall of Fame"(tm)?? Haven't players been placing bets for and against their own teams for as long as the game's been played? Weren't his statistical contributions noteworthy enough for his indiscretions to be overlooked?
Shaughnn

[flatfloor]

Robert you ever get a speeding ticket and have a conversation with the cop that went something like this?

Rob..hey, why did you pull me over everybody was doing 70?
Cop..Do you ever go fishing?
Rob..Sure
Cop..Did you catch them all?

[kate42]

Again, if youre going to call out one, call them all out. If not, leave it be.

Oh no I won't let it be! You leave it be. Barry Bonds is a bum. :devil2: I don't like him. He's on the bottom of the pile of people I admire. He should be banned just like other athletes who have been caught. :mad: He is a cheat and a public disgrace. :sick:

[kate42]

Shaughnn , Flatfloor:wave:
You both snuck in your posts whle I was replying. :D
:goodpost:

[nforcer2]

I was a cop for almost 8 years so I was on the other end of those conversations. And you are all entitled to your opinions, as am I. I will still be rooting for him when he breaks the record, as I will when A-rod breaks his. And they havent caught him doing anything, it is all allegations. I would think with the entire U.S. govt trying they could have something solid by now.

and Kate.....have you ever hit a baseball?

[Shaughnn]

Robert,
I would hope, that with everything else going on currently, that the *distraction* of the "investigations into Major League Baseball" has been back-burnered indefinitely? Meanwhile, it's not against the law so I hope we don't have to spend a dime on prosecuting him. It's a matter for MLB to resolve as they are a private enterprise with their own internal rules and allowances. Let them decide if he's a liability to their revenue stream or not and we as consumers can either choose to support their decisions or reject them by learning how Cricket is played instead. :)
Shaughnn

[Shooter]

IMO, it has nothing to do with steroid allegations at this point. If it is proven then yes it is an issue. The issue at hand is basically that Bonds is an asshole. I would not want my kids or other children looking up to this man as a role model. He took on a large burden by being such a great player in one of America's greatest games. Whether he likes it or not, responsibilities come with that title. Everything he has is owed to the fans who support the game. He has a moral obligation IMO to be a better person and be that role model that kids can really look up to.

[kate42]

and Kate.....have you ever hit a baseball?

Yes I have. ;) I was darn good too, back in my day.:clap2: Only thing is, they don't let ladies into MLB. So was I MLB material? :shrug: Nobody will ever know. :cry:

[Scooter]

Robert, do you believe Barry Bonds that the substances he was injecting with a syringe was flax seed oil?

A yes or a no, would be nice, please.

[ddmoit]

When I was a kid, I had a passion for MLB similar to what has been displayed here. But after a couple of players' strikes, I felt like a real chump for caring so much. I'll still watch the World Series on occasion, but I have liberated myself from the organization that seems to have done everything in its power to destroy the national pastime. I still love baseball. When I want to see it, I go to the small, semi-pro games. The Evansville Otters were the champs last year.

http://www.frontierleague.com/team-info.php

[nforcer2]

I cannot say with any degree of certainty whether he did or did not take anything. What i think, believe, or have an opinion on bares no weight. With you guys sense of justice people would be hanged at the mere perception if inpropreity. This is a witch hunt, pure and simple. If it were not, why don't we hear Sosa and Mcgwires names anymore? Why are we not talking about guys like Brett Boone and countless others who doubled their homerun output during this same time frame. And dont give me the he is going for the record crap, because I don't buy it. People hate bonds so it is easier to for a lynch mob against him.

[Shaughnn]

Dan,
The Sacramento River Cats put on a good show also, and the crowd seems to enjoy the games more than their counterparts in Oakland do. :)
Robert,
I don't care if Bonds goes to jail. In fact, I don't think he should. But neither do I believe that he should be honored. He's even welcome to continue playing baseball, if he chooses, just as long as none of his statistics overshadow those of players who are far more deserving. Let him play for "the love of the game" and his grossly inflated contract alone. That should keep him warm at night when he's all alone after the lights are turned down.
Shaughnn

[Shooter]

Robert there is a lynch mob for a reason. Who cares about steroid allegations at this point. He is an asshole plain and simple. And the people who pay large amounts of money to see him and other pro atheletes perform do not want to see an asshole succeed. That is just the American way.

[kate42]

With you guys sense of justice people would be hanged at the mere perception if inpropreity. This is a witch hunt

That statement is rather extreme because "us" guys don't agree with you. :confused: Nowhere did I suggest Bonds being punished so severly for his dishonesty. :shake:

[nforcer2]

Shooter, you burdening major league players with raising your kids and being responsible for their moral fiber is laughable. he is doing a job, plain and simple. you raise your kids and let him hit balls and we will all be better off. and kate, what is his dishonesty? you have convicted this man without a trial. like it or not this country has a system that lets people be tried for their transgressions. (that and they beat the indians and stole all their land, but that is another story). Barry has not been convicted of anything, and you can like that or not, but it is true. he will break the record and again, like it or not, he will still be the all time home run king. so your having a different take on that issue is not a burden to me, and i am sure not to barry :dance: if you dont like him, dont watch him, its a pretty simple choice.

[kate42]

if you dont like him, dont watch him, its a pretty simple choice.

I don't, :shake: except when it's forced on me. When my team was on Fox recently and Barry the Cheater came to the plate to hit, Fox bumped my game to show this idiots at bat. :mad: Yes, I turned it off, but I was incensed that the media is forcing this criminal down my throat. Every morning if I want to listen to the news, I get a summary of what BB did the night before. I am tired of it. :bang:
you have convicted this man without a trial.
That's my right. http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/grinser/grinning-smiley-024.gif

[Shooter]

Robert, unfortunately there are jobs out there that people must live their lives to a higher standard. You should know this very well, having been in LE yourself. No one forced him to become a major league baseball player. But in having done so, he should accept and live up to some of the inherant burdens of the job. If you are gonna get a fat paycheck that comes from the fans who support the game and invariably pay your overpriced salary, then the least you can do is live up to all that goes with it.

I raise my kids with a high set of morality and beliefs. I entrust no one but my wife and myself first and foremost to raise my kids properly. To think that I task major league baseball or any other sport or profession or person for that matter with the obligation of raising my kids is an ignorant statement at best. Yes, kids have role models and many of those role models are professional atheletes. It is my opinion that you should not bite the hand that feeds you. Barry does this quite often and that is why he is disliked by many. He sets a poor example as a professional athelete for our children and is a poor representative for the game and the major leagues in general.

[Scooter]

Robert, so if you won't answer a simple yes or no question as to whether Barry Bonds statement was true, that he thought he was injecting flax seed oil in his butt and didn't know it was steroids, speaks volumes.

Nice try.

[nforcer2]

I dont doubt he did steroids, but I dont doubt that most of baseball was doing them at the same time. So unless the last 20 years is going to be wiped out then I say leave him alone. He did what everyone else was doing, he was just way better.

[sdaniels7114]

Better than the other Steroid users? Sure.

Better than Aaron, Ruth or Maris? No way.

He's not chasing the King Roid User Award. He doesn't have to, everyone would gladly concede that to him.


As of now I think all pitchers should just roll the ball into the plate 4 times every time he's up to bat. Either that or plunk him right where his needle scars are.

[nforcer2]

those same pitchers you are talking about are using steroids more than anybody in the game. get your head out of the sand.

[Rob Z]

Robert

It seems like you care WAAAAYYYY too much about this Barry Bonds thing. :shrug:

Baseball is such a multi-dimensional game that it is virtually impossbile to decide who is "The Best". It's no surprise that subjective factors enter into the process of people discussing which players are good, great, etc.

As for me, I don't give a FF about Barry Bonds and his career. There are too many other good players who hold an appeal to the public and can serve as heroes, role models, and legends.

Like Steve said, I think it would be funny to see him get walked every at bat. Barry can hire some more lawyers to fight that one. :rofl:

[nforcer2]

I am just stating my opinions like everyone else on here. And i could give a FF if you give an FF about Barry Bonds and his carrer. The question was asked who will be cheering and I will. So i guess you replying means you care way too much about it too, right?

Kids should find role models at home, not on television.

[Rob Z]

Robert

I only have replied once (now twice :) ), which so far shows that I don't have much of an interest in this. And my posting wasn't made because of Barry Bonds, instead it was because of the general tenor of this discussion.

I do agree with you that kids should find role models at home first and foremost. But, since very few of us who are parents can play a sport professionally, my aspiring little quaterback will continue to love John Elway and Brett Farve. I'm OK with that. :D

PS I do care a lot about Laticrete products, so you and I have common ground there. :)

[nforcer2]

LOL, that we do.

And i don't care as much as I like pissing off those who have such strong hate for someone they don't even know.

The guy can play ball, plain and simple. And if I thought the only reason he was good was because of steroids then it might be different. But to me, he was great long before any allegations of roids.

[kate42]

I like pissing off those who have such strong hate for someone they don't even know.
:rofl: :rofl:
You are making an assumption. Where did the word hate come in my posts ? You know what they say about people who make assumptions.

I like pissing off
And i could give a FF

Your language is rather offensive, not your comments. What does FF mean? :shrug: If it suggest what I think it does, I don't believe it belongs in this thread. Is that the only way you know how to express yourself???? :D

[nforcer2]

Kate, i was using verbage that was used in the previous post. if you had read that, youd have known. So read all the posts and know what you are talking about or shhhhhhhh. :blah:

LAST POST!! :x: Go back to talking about tile

[kate42]

Robert
So read all the posts and know what you are talking about or shhhhhhhh
Listen to your own advice. I am well aware of the posts in this thread and who posted what. The question I asked was not directed at you, so you shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I made a generalization. You know the old saying "If the shoe fits-------------------" Too bad you didn't see it that way!
The purpose of this hthread was to see who's cheering for Barry Bonds and who is not. I've had my say and have listened to others. I'm not upset or angered by those who like Barry Bonds. :bang: I have more important things in life to get upset over. So Robert, now I'm speaking to you, it's been lively.Have a nice day. :)

[scott anthony]

You want opinions on Barry.
Here's mine.
http://www.bathroomjokes.com/fart/sound.htm
I don't like him, as you can tell.

[mark11755]

Barry's helmet...

[kate42]

Scott, Mark :wave:

:yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :clap1: :clap1: :clap1:

[Dave Hessel]

Well, hopefully I'm not gonna offend anyone when I say...... I'd like to see Barry Bonds step down graciously, and retire right now, one or two homers short of the record. I think the jerk would blow everyone's minds, and also show some respect for the real guy. Hank Aaron.

[Shaughnn]

Dave,
That's a fantastic idea! Too bad we don't live in Kevin Costner's "Field of Dreams" world where something like that could happen and everybody could sing "Take me out to the ball park" together again. :)
Shaughnn

[kate42]

Dave :wave:

Well, hopefully I'm not gonna offend anyone when I say...... I'd like to see Barry Bonds step down graciously, and retire right now,

You cetainly haven't offended me by saying that. Henry Aaron has class, Bonds has none. :)

[Rd Tile]

Too Late, record broken.:)

[Westie]

:devil2: :wtf:

[kate42]

Westie

Great picture. :yeah: It says it all. ;) Let's go A-Rod. :tup2:

[Bri]

Ok, I'm confused(no surprise there :tup2: )

So...Roger on roids, pitchs to Barry on Roids, and Barry gets a homer. That's bad? Good? Even? No wait...that doesn't sound right...Ok, So....oh never mind. ;)

[Brian in San Diego]

Anybody interested in voting on what should be done with the record breaking ball can vote here (http://www.vote756.com/marcecko/).

[Shaughnn]

Brian,
Thanks for the link. I had no idea that it was Marc Ecko who bought the ball. I'm a big fan of his stuff and I really like his stated reasons for buying it and creating this poll.
After watching an interview with him, which showed the estate he's remodeling in New Jersey, I'm pretty sure I recognized it from a photo posted here a few years ago. I'll try to dredge it up and see if it's not the same view?
Shaughnn

[kate42]

Brian :wave:

Thanks for the link. I've just submitted my vote. :)