Floating desktop/counter/worktop?

[sugarbeth]

This isn't tile-related, but I thought maybe you all might be able to help. :)

We're putting together the craft room at the moment, and what I'd like to do is put an L-shaped floating counter down a couple of walls. I want it be floating so that we are free to adjust where we work and have rolling drawers underneath, etc.

Here's my sketch:
http://www.thosemartins.com/shared/craftroomplans.jpg

So what do people use to hold these things up, anyway? It'll be about 2' deep. I thought maybe the granite peeps knew something that could be used.

And I'm still trying to figure out what the countertop is going to be made of. Since I'd like these curves in it, it makes it a bit more complicated, but it doesn't have to be extravagant since it's just a craft room. I have a router, so I guess maybe I could build a counter myself? But how to finish? What are my options? (NOT tile - lol) Right now I'm thinking of hacking some IKEA desktops to fit, but I need to play with that idea.

Thanks for any help you can give me! :)

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[Shaughnn]

Hi Beth,
Here's a photo of a floating vanity I put a splash around a few months back. The vanity was built with cabinet-grade plywood over a ladder-frame of dimensional lumber and a fascia skirt of hardwood veneer layered and laminated together. The deck was hung on wall cleats which were anchored to the studs on three sides.
I think in your case, you will need at least two supports for the 9-foot span and one at the open-end at the door. The rest should be able to hang on wall cleats, and the thickness of the counter really depends on how you plan to use it. You might get by with glueing and screwing two 3/4" plywood panels together, with the top panel overlapping the bottom panel by a couple of feet? The mid-span supports could be as simple as a diagonal brace from the bottom edge of the counter leading to the the intersection between floor and wall or you could try for a less intrusive support by shortening the support member while making it out of thicker material or giving it a broader base? I think the open end of the counter will probably be easiest to support with a simple panel, which you could modify into a low bookcase or storage cabinet.
Don't forget plenty of extra electrical outlets or coreholes through the counter for cords to run down through. I recently saw a pop-up outlet (http://cableorganizer.com/desk-outlet/) that looks realy sweet but I'm not sure you want to spend that kind of money when a simple desk grommet might suffice?

[dgunnels]

Hi Beth. My husband an I did almost exactly the same thing for our office. WE used 1" thinck ply painted with high gloss paint. It has been extremely durable. We held it up with brackets rated to hold several hundred pounds and we used them ever 3'. Over kill of course but you don't have to worry. He even stood on it to make sure. The brackets were probably the most expensive part of the project. If I can locate a pic I will post.

I don't know how you would make it adjustable though. Might consider two different counter heights.

[JTG]

Beth
Installation of plastic laminate is really not that hard to install. The tools and laminate are not expensive if you already have a router.
Good Luck
JTG

[tile mom]

Hey Beth- another thing that might be cool to do since this is a craft room is to cover the table with perspex (spelling??). Two fold purpose: to protect your underlying surface and to show the latest art work created by the little people in the house. Also, if the perspex is propped up 1/4 inch by those little round rubber protector pads then it is easy to slip the art work underneath.

send pix when it is done!

[JonSquatch]

Plastic laminates are easy to work with, especially if you just cover the flat surface and use an edging. They come in a wide array of colors, and can be easily attached with contact cement following the manufactures instructions.

You could just go with white melamine coated particle board. It tends to sag a bit over time, I think more so than good plywood (thats a challenge to find as well) but you can find it easily and its much cheaper than some laminates. I doubt you would find thicker than 3/4" and while that might be fine for most of your project I would worry about the sewing portion without lots of re-enforcement.

For a craft room for edging the work surface I would go with that plastic edge molding that slides into a slot routed into the edge of the work surface. Like this one at Rockler: Plastic T-Molding Edging (http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=1181&filter=edge)

I don't know if it works for you, but in a craft room I like wall mounted workstations that can be folded down when not in use. Again here is an example from Rockler: StorAway Work Station Brackets (http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?Offerings_ID=10551&TabSelect=Details)

If you break your wall down into manageable pieces, each one edged arround the entire perimeter as they do with office cubical furniture, you could make it in 3 separate pieces that butt up against each other. That way you could double up or otherwise re-enforce the sewing portion and isolate it from the others, and make your nice curved portion of the workstation and give logical places to mount your brackets.

[sugarbeth]

Shaughnn -that is a fancy vanity!

Neesie - would love to see pics if you've got them!

Jerry - I'm thinking about laminate...I'm sure I could pull that off.


A couple of you mentioned the brackets...what are these brackets and where do I get them? I've found these ones (http://www.fastcap.com/prod2.asp?page=speedbrace), they're like $24 each, though. Maybe I should be searching for "wall cleats"? I'll go try that...

[sugarbeth]

Oops, Jon and tilemom, you snuck a post in there while I was posting.

Interesting idea about the perspex...hmmm...

Jon, thank you for those links. I was wondering about that edging - definitely would use that if I went laminate, and now I know where to get it. And I didn't even think about how the sewing machine would need extra support - you're right about that. Will make sure that end is beefed up. :nod:

[Scooter]

Rockler has good stuff, but those brackets are junk. I know, I've used them and they are for causual temporary support for perhaps like a fold away ironing table. --not a work space.

I do these frequently and would have some quarter inch steel welded into "L" Brackets (about 20x20 with at holes every 6 inches) and mounted on each stud. I then drywall over them and cut pieces around the part that goes into the room so all one sees is this piece of steel jutting out of the wall.

Then mount two layers of 3/4 ply. If you want to make the table really strong, rout some half x half inch channels (called a dado) into the ply and epoxy in some threaded steel rod. This will really stiffen the set up. Screw the ply into the brackets.

This is exactly the method that Frank Lloyd Wright used for his floating furniture in the home in Ohio called "Falling Water." I know--I've been there twice--and I make furniture as a hobby.

[sugarbeth]

Scooter, that bracket setup sounds very slick! :tup2: And that reinforcement with the steel rods...I'll have to remember that one.

But taking off the already painted drywall to attach braces directly to the studs is way too fancy for this project. :D
I also found these brackets (http://www.supportbrackets.com/support-brackets.asp) that are about half the price of the speed brace ones (http://www.fastcap.com/prod2.asp?page=speedbrace).

So if my counter top is 24" deep, how big should one of the above brackets be do you think? Is the 12"x18" one big enough if I put them on each stud? Or should I get the 15"x21" ones - could I get away with every other stud with those?

Thanks so much for your help, all! I knew I'd find some expertise here. :dance:

[Scooter]

Both designs suffer from one flaw which I dislike--they are made of corragated pressed steel., and thus are fairly thick, about 2 inches at the elbow and being so are fairly noticeable and may cause knees to hit them.

My customer wanted a floating countertop that just came out without any visible means of support.

I would also think that welded quarter inch steel would be less noticeable and stronger than pressed steel, and I bet cheaper. Any machine shop or welding fabricator could knock these out in an hour. You can install them against the dry wall, like I said, my customer wanted no visible means of support.

Your 18x15 should be fine, if thats the one you want. The long side goes against the wall. Don't scrimp on screws and you will have to get them long enough so that you have about at least an inch and a quarter of draw in the stud, so if you are going through half inch dry wall that makes about a two inch screw. The shelf screws can be shorties, about a half inch.

It is unlikely that the screw holes will be sufficient diameter for those heavy duty screws, so they will have to be drilled out. At least thats my experience. Hopefully the holes have enough flat around them, before the corregation, that will support an increased diameter.

[sugarbeth]

Thanks, Scooter, you've given me a lot to think about! :nod:

I think we're going out to IKEA tonight to pick up some wall cabinets, then I'm going out of town next week, but after that we should get most of this room knocked out - will post pics when I have them. :)

[sugarbeth]

I'm not done with the craft room yet, but I thought I'd post an update. :)

We've got the IKEA wall cabinets all hung up, and they look really nice. Lots of new storage for all our craftiness.

The countertop. I ended up with those speedbrace brackets. They had the slimmest profile of all of them. I got them off of amazon. They do seem fairly sturdy. I put up a 1x2 cleat on the wall first, painted that to match the wall, then started putting the brackets on. Then I started to wonder about just where the electricity was in the wall. :uhh: It's a good thing I stopped right there, because the wires ran through the studs right about where I wanted to screw in those brackets, and in some places right about where I screwed in the cleat! Eep!! So, crap. I ended up putting a bunch of holes in the walls so I could see exactly where the wires ran through each stud before I put in any more screws. So I have a lot of drywall patching to do now. lol Suddenly Scooter's idea of taking off the drywall in the first place became the easier option. Ah well...

So I've got my particle board cut roughly to size. Now I need to use my router for the first time ever. I made some templates for my curves out of 1/4" MDF that I had lying around. But I need to go get some router bits first. I'm chugging along though! It's going to be so cool when it's done! :)

Attaching a pic of the cabinets and you can see my blue walls. :) Those rolling drawers we bought ahead of time so we can make sure the counter is high enough.

[tile mom]

the electrical wire business makes me wonder about something...Does anyone know if wires are run at a certain height as an industry standard or does it just vary from electrician to electrician? Boy, wouldn't it be helpful to know that on an empty wall the wires will be at X height.

can't wait to see those pictures!

[Rob Z]

Beth, TileMom,

It's a good concern to have, wondering where those wires are. :) You can either cut some holes for observation or get one of the various stud finders that are made that have AC detection. We have several of them, and I think the most expensive one was about $50. It will locat eAC, metal, studs, etc. The brand name that is sold in all the home centers is "Zircon".

Good luck with your projects.

[Rob Z]

Here is the website for Zircon:

http://www.zircon.com/

[Shaughnn]

Hi Tile Mom,
Electrical outlets are generally set at 15" and 46" off of the floor, but there's no sure-fire way of knowing how those wires have been run. A tester, as Rob's already suggested, is a great idea for your tool kit.
Shaughnn

[tile mom]

thanks! great ideas on the Zircon tester.

[sugarbeth]

How precise are those testers? Because I have one of the little pen-like things that beeps where it's close to the wires, but it can't really pinpoint the exact line of travel, and I still have about a foot long area where it could be. So hopefully it's better than that. :)

Tile mom, my wires went through the studs very haphazardly, like they just eyeballed it. This house was built in the 70's, apparently before they had to put the nail plates on.

[cx]

Tile mom, my wires went through the studs very haphazardly, like they just eyeballed it. This house was built in the 70's, apparently before they had to put the nail plates on. Still the way it's done, Beth. And nail plates are not required unless your wire is too close to the surface of the stud. I think the requierment is 1 1/4", but don't quote me on that one. For sure, if you drill your chase through the center of 2x4 studs, you don't need plates.

And I wouldn't wanna bet anything important on being able to accurately follow those wires from outside the wall. Those testers might give you a good idea where a particular wire is run, but it ain't necessarily so. Onliest sure way I've ever found for when you really must know where the wires are is to open the wall and look in there.

I've drilled into wires that weren't s'posta be there but were, and I've cut holes for outlet boxes where the wars were s'posta be but weren't.

And for absolutely sure and without question the outlet boxes near the bottom of the walls will be 'zackly one hammer handle above the unfinished floor. Guaranteed. Now, some 'lectricians may have longer hammer handles, and others shorter ones, of course. But you can definitely count on those boxes being exactly somewhere down there, and that's about all you can actually count on in that regard. :D

My opinion; worth price charged.

[sugarbeth]

Well, I do feel better knowing that my now-swiss-cheese wall was pretty much unavoidable. :rofl:

Got my router bits today! So now I should be able to finish the underlayment for the counter, and then I have to figure out what color it's going to be.

[Davestone]

Color is easy,ya got your beige, ya got your brown, you got your offwhite, ya got your antique white,ya got......... :D

[sugarbeth]

I got the underlayment all done. Man, that industrial particle board is heavy and tough! So glad I'm done with that part. I'm no longer a router virgin. :dance:

I'm thinking of forgoing the laminate and just router the top edge to round it over and then painting it with something durable - or maybe take it somewhere to have it painted? Any thoughts on this? Neesie - you said you did something like this? I really want that top front edge to be rounded, so it's either that or t-molding and laminate. I have some t-molding samples coming in the mail, but I'm not sure how that's going to look because this counter is so beefy. (1/5" thick) :shrug:

We put in the floor yesterday. It's hard to see in the pic because it's so dark. But it looks great with the blue. Still need to put in the baseboards. Got my grommet holes already in there.