Dried concrete on vinyl siding and windows

[twelvepole]

O.K., Mud Room Buddies, I frequently run into the question of how to clean (I'm a cleaning forum junkie!) dried concrete of vinyl siding and windows. I guess surfaces don't get protected or cleaned while concrete is wet, as directions suggest. Any ideas?

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[Bud Cline]

I had a cleaning business in Plano Texas and we did make-readys for the monster tract builders. All of our projects were brick so I'm not sure about the vinyl siding but the windows are easy.

I would mix 8 ounces of isopropyl alchohol, 3 ounces of Ajax Dishwashing soap (it has to be Ajax) into about four gallons of water. This is the same recipe I used to clean the windows inside and out (squeegee style window washing).

Anyway, put about half the solution in a pump spray and soak the windows. Before the solution dries use a razorblade scraper and gently go after the cement. Then with a soft tire brush, dipping it into a bucket of the remaining solution, slosh away the sand and cement. Don't brush, let the solution carry it away. Then wash the window with the tire brush (don't ever get sand in the brush) and squeegee the glass clean.

Wa-La, clean glass.

[cx]

Twelvepole:

Muriatic acid likes Portland cement real well. So much so, it eats it every chance it gets.

Mild solution is very effective even on painted surfaces, such as concrete trucks. Can't imagine it hurting vinyl frames or siding, but you might wanna test it first.

Pour the acid as it comes out of the bottle (buy it at any pool supply store - or HD around here) on a section of concrete that will never be important to you or anyone else, and you will see the action.

Protect the eyes mucho, and rubber gloves are a good idea too.

And, by the way, is that creek really 200 feet across?

Oops, I meant acrost, John. Sorry.

[twelvepole]

O.K., cx! Does that mean Chessie System? Or x-rated ceramic person? I never researched how long a pole or rod was. So, if George said 12 poles/rods wide and you say 200 feet, that means each unit is 16'8" if I did my math right. Why an uneven number? Don't tell me you knew George personally and you measure tile in rods in your neck of the woods. Please advise.

[cx]

Yo,John!
Twelvepole tryin' to talk dirty again!

12p:

I rounded off. A Rod is 16.5 feet, so your creek would be 198 feet, side to side, by ol' GW's measure, so I'm not sure he was suggesting that his "pole" was a Rod long.

Why is a Rod not an even number of feet? Well, that's simple. It's a part of a mile. Each mile contains 8 Furlongs, as we all know, and each Furlong contains 40 Rods (or 10 Chains, as I recall), which fewer of us know, so if'n you do the math you find that each of them Rods gotta have 16.5 feet, no?

Me, I think George used a different pole.

Even in texas, most creeks are not that wide, 'cept when we're havin' one of our many floods. John can speak to that.

[twelvepole]

So, 66 ft, over half a foot ball field. Guess that's about right when the creek's up.

So, if you use weak muriatic acid/water solution for cleaning concrete splashes off vinyl and basement windows, what ratio would you recommend?

Best regards.

P.S. Never been to Texas. Would like to go to San Antonio.

[Bud Cline]

Just keep in mind Muriatic Acid is also a corrosive. Are vinyl windows assembled with metal screws and fasteners? Are the twist mechanisms and latches in double hung windows metal? Are the cranks and latches of casement windows metal?

Just some questions you may want to investigate.

I know, I know, you just want to clean the outside and all this stuff is on the inside.

[cx]

Good point, Bud, but all the vinyl windows I've seen have welded seams all about. No exposed fasteners at all on the outside.

That what you got, 12p?

As for dilution, I'd start pretty weak and work up. The stuff says to be pretty diluted in the bottle, but it's mean. Make your sponge go byebye pretty quick like. Put maybe half a cup in a couple gallon bucket and try that. Pour ALWAYS the acid into the water!

And if you have any raw Cedar or Redwood in the vicinity, be really, REALLY careful not to be splashing any acid on same. Could be one of your more expensive mistakes - non-repairable.

But good stuff for cleaning off them concrete splashes. Most excelent solution for difficult grout haze on tile, too.

And what kinda football y'all play on a field less than twice 66 feet long? You makin' that up, too?

[John Bridge]

A word to the wise. Many moons ago I destroyed a formica countertop while washing a tile backsplash with muriatic.

GW was a surveyor -- knew his rods and chains. It's ironic that old George never considered himself an educated man, never having attended a liberal arts college, as all his colleagues had. He lamented it all the time while he was becoming the most famous living person in the world for his time. Knew his poles, George did.

If George estimated it to be twelve poles, I'd go with him on that. I'll go with CX on the football field issue, if'n it's important.
;)

[twelvepole]

So, I'm not a math wizard. GW was better at it than I. I always try steer folks away from caustic cleaners because many folks don't read directions. Thanks, Mudmen

[cx]

I disremembered that ol' GW was a surveyer, John. But would a real surveyer of his day have called a Rod a Pole? I mean, when those were the common measurements of the day, a Rod would would be a Rod, and a Chain a chain, thinks I.

And name a moving water 200 feet wide a creek? Mmmmmm.

Gee, I love this high level stuff.

C'mon, 12p, what's the deal on your bogus football field?

[Bud Cline]

Alright now hold it right there. When young Sam Clemmons was working on the riverboats would he use a "rod" or a "pole" to survey the waters depth? And how deep is "mark twain"? I know, that cry represented two marks on his pole/rod, but how deep was two marks?

Just curious!

[cx]

Big Red:

You lookin' to win the apples-to-oranges prize or what?

Measuring land areas and measuring water depth wasn't never done with the same tools, on accounta they ain't the same thing. Know what I mean?

But ol' Sam still didn't try to measure the water depth with his "pole", Bud. He poosh his boat with his pole; he measure the water with his "lead line".

That there was a light rope with a weight on the end and marks (ususlly knots) along its length. The unit of measure was, of course, the Fathom, which started out as the distance between the hands of the King's outstreached arms, but was nautically accepted as being six feet.

So if ol' Sam was singing out with, "By the mark, twain", he was saying the river was 12 feet deep (and maybe about 12 poles wide, but we don't know that). If the water depth fell between marks, he would sing out with, "by the deep, (insert number)", which would represent his best guess.

On bigger boats (which are called ships) in deeper waters, the line would be marked with knots and various colored yarns so's the thrower could tell which knot he was lookin' at.

All this you should have learned in Boot Camp, had you been paying attention. And not been in the army or air force, of course.

Didn't nobody never measure stuff with no pole; I think ol' twelvepole is makin' that up.

Defend your name there, 12p!

[Bud Cline]

Boy, that was a whole lot easier than me looking it up. Is this a great place or what?

[John Bridge]

It just could be that GW, then being in charge of the army, was concerned about "fords," the distance and depth of a crossing, which would include wagons and artillery. Many creeks have tributaries, for lack of a better term, and although you may be able to jump/wade across, you would never be able to haul any heavy equipment behind you. Maybe the commander-in-chief/surveyor figured twelve poles (a couple hundred feet, whatever) from dry land bank to dry land bank, even though he later demonstated his ability to travel light while crossing the Delaware.

[Geez, Patti, I love to argue, even about things that don't matter much.] :D

[cx]

Good theory, John. I like that.

Still, why would he call a Rod a Pole? Surveyers don't use no poles to measure. Army guys don't measure nothin' with no pole - do they?

Still want ol' 12p come by here and defend HIS story.

[What, like Patti maybe don't know that?]

[John Bridge]

CX, dammit, I done tole you GW weren't well educated. Rod, pole, wht's th diferce? Now TJ, he were educatid.

[cx]

Dammit yourownself, I done tole YOU that Rod would be a term-of-art for a surveyor! He ain't gonna call it a pole on accounta it ain't even a thing. Like you wouldn't have no bag full of feet or yards in your surveyor truck, he wouldn't have no bundle of rods in his wagon, neither. So they wouldn't get confused with his poles, which maybe he did have for to poosh his boat acrost the creek.

Would be like an uneducated tile man callin' a trowel a spoon or some such. Ain't gonna happen. If he say to his hepper, "fetch my spoon, son", you think he's likely to get his trowel? Well, knowing heppers, that may be a poor analogy, but you see my point.

[Yo, Patti, maybe you can 'splain him!]

Where's twelvepole?

[John Bridge]

:D