Grout Haze

[MadisonMoore]

Seeking grout haze removal advice

My Bolzano glazed tile was just professionally installed and grouted ten days. From the beginning, the entire floor (1000 sq ft) looked chalky and felt awfully dry. The installer had it professionally cleaned by a home contractor (Service Magic, ServPro, etc). After their first cleaning with a vinegar solution (2 days after grout), the floor did not look any better. The
next day, they cleaned with a scrubbing machine and an unknown solution, but the tile looked no different (grout looked discolored though). They said I may have to mop it a few times. I mopped and towel dried it well over ten times and changed the water frequently, but the floor looks and feels the same. The installer said he would drop off Sparks Brick and Tile cleaner for me to use to
clean the floor. But I refuse to use it.

I called the grout manufacturer to find out what to use, and there was no recommendation. Basically, acid is never recommended on their product (polymer modified colored grout) and is not recommended for the glazed tile either. I understand that acids can etch the tile and damage the grout, so I do not understand why it is okay to use hyrdrochloric acid products (per tile installer). In addition, the installers have not provided any assurances about the end result.

Being that this is the 2nd tile job that has problems (they removed the original tile that was installed a few months ago and this is the replacement), I really want to be sure they use the right product and procedure.

I would really appreciate suggestions!

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[JTG]

MM
Welcome to the Forum
I'm sorry to hear about your problem. Being it is a glazed tile I'm surprised that after the all the times over the floor it still looks like this.
From my experience it is going to take something like Sureclean 600 to clean it off.
I don't recognize the Sparkes brand but I wouldn't be afraid of testing it on an out off the way spot on the tile.
Sureclean is a very strong formula and I have always diluted it and rinsed real well when done and had no problems on the tile or grout.
Spray a little WD-40 on a spot and let it set and then rinse off. Does that take up the film?
Good Luck
JTG

[MadisonMoore]

Jerry,

The tile is heavily textured, and we suspect that maybe part of the problem.

I'll pick up some WD-40 today and see if it removes the film.

We have not tried the Sparks because we have never used hydrochloric acid, the grout manufacturer and tile manufacturer both said that if someone uses it, they better really know what they are doing. We don't know what we are doing. We are not comfortable with our using a chemical that strong - especially with my ill father-in-law in the house.

I'll read about Sureclean. Thanks for the recommendation.

We can get some of the haze off - one tile at a time - using straight vinegar, a nylon scrub brush, lots of rinse water, and a lot of clean towels to wipe up. But we have over 1000 sq feet of tile, so doing them one at a time could take weeks. We are anxious to get it cleaned and get our furniture back inside.

Are there other options such as diluted phosphoric or sulfamic acid? We are trying to understand the various acids and use the one that is least likely to damage the tile and grout. How harmful is vinegar compared to the other acids for glazed ceramic tile?

Madison

[FctryRep]

Porcelain tiles are all tested to be acid resistant, a dilute acid such as sulfamic (or the acetic acid in vinegar) should be fine as long as you don't leave it on any longer than required for it to remove the grout haze. Test an out of the way area first. The more corrosive acids such as muriatic shouldn't be used as they can etch the surface. The grout manufacturer isn't going to tell you to use acid because they don't want to be blamed if this floor gets messed up and you want it removed again. Unfortunately the time to remove grout haze is before it cures which is as it is being installed. The longer it has to set up, the harder it is to remove. You may have to go one tile at a time to get it fixed to your satisfaction. If you can get one tile cleaned up then the tile isn't the problem.

Good luck, let us know how it turns out.

Dan

[prashster]

IMHO, grout haze is caused mainly by poor cleanup. Once it sets, it's hard to get it off. You have to use a chemical AND elbow grease. Then you have to wipe off the haze with a dry cloth and avoid getting the grout lines wet again, or yl just drag the haze around and it'll only temporarily disapper.

If this is the 2nd job that's been hazy, I'd suspect your contractor (if you used the same one) isn't cleaning properly immed after grouting; or he's working in too large sections.

[MadisonMoore]

Thanks to all who replied.

The tiles are ceramic, and I do not know if they are acid resistant.

Dan, the first job was not hazy. The grout kept failing (widespread cracking, coming up in large chunks, dusting, etc). They kept putting more grout on, but the same thing happened. They repaired large areas about 5-6 times, but each one failed, so our builder told them to redo the job.

The installers have acid cleaned the floor with sulfamic acid, but that only removed some of the haze. The floor still looked really bad. They have also cleaned with hydrochloric acid, and it looks a lot better, but there are still quite a few concrete smears and hazy spots. The floor just does not look right - the original floor had a sheen; this is dull. Some places have been cleaned 3 times with acid, and the haze is still there. Some of the tiles look a lighter color, which we did not want.

Shawn, they definitely did not keep the grout dry and did not wipe up with a cloth.

We probably will clean each one by hand and wipe dry ourselves. We are very worried about whether our glaze has been affected by the multiple acid cleanings. Is there a way to check the glaze?

Madison

[MadisonMoore]

Can glazed ceramic tile be porous? The installers say the tile is glazed, but keep commenting on how porous it is (to explain the difficulty removing the haze). I understand that some glazes are shiny, matte, etc. but I am confused about a porous glaze.

Madison

[prashster]

I'm not a material scientist, but a shiny glaze causes more light to reflect evenly off the surface, which means there are few pits or pores (vis a vis a matte or honed) surface to absorb light (or grout)

So, if it were me, and yr tiles were pretty shiny before, then the 'porous glaze' argument sounds like a lot of hooey to me.

Regardless, I tiled my shower in honed marble, which is pretty darn porous. I had NO grout haze problems because I cleaned quickly and dryly and properly and completely. 95% of yr installer's difficulty in buffing off the haze NOW is due to their not cleaning properly at the start. Only a small % of the difficulty can be attributed to the tile material. That's my non-pro opinion, at least.

[doitright]

Hi Madison :)

Was the cracking grout issue resolved? Were the tiles torn out and replaced?

It is possible to burn the glazed tile with acid, and for it to lose the factory sheen. If this happens, it is irreversible. There are a couple of possible solutions, but nothing will equate to the factory shine, and ease of maintenance (short of replacement). This won't even help in your situation if you can't get someone to properly grout the floor (no matter what the tiles texture).

At this point all you can do is TEST one tile. If you can't clean it and restore the factory sheen, it's possible that your tile is ruined from all the cleaning attempts performed.

BTW, many of the specialty acidic cleaning products do contain a percentage of hydrochloric acid. It is very important to utilize a tile and stone specific product, and follow the label directions. Prosoco has many different lines of products that may work. Their products are suggested for professional use.

A last resort on your behalf would be to TEST with some Sulfamic or Phosphoric Acid. I believe these may be procured from Aqua Mix.

[MadisonMoore]

Hi, John,

Yes, the original issue (failing grout) was resolved by tearing out and replacing the tiles. Apparently, the original crew diluted materials to make application easier. That also made the tear out a lot easier!

I think the dull areas are here to stay and that the tile surface has some damage. The grout appears damaged, too. For example, the color has changed from a uniform ivory to a mottled grayishcolor. In addition, the grout texture was smooth, but is now rough.

"It is very important to utilize a tile and stone specific product, and follow the label directions" I agree with you. If our crew read the instructions, they sure did not follow them. They did not pre-wet the grout, measure the product, prevent from drying on the floor, wipe up, etc. (Can you imagine how well they contained the home for the tear out - we will still be cleaning a year from now). I think if they had read and followed the product instructions including wiping the floor clean with cloth, we would not have this problem. Of course, as Shawn said, they should not have left excessive grout on the floor in the first place.

By the way, the company is one of our region's largest and busiest floor covering companies that services builders, homeowners, commercial, etc. Scary.

Thanks to all who replied. :yummy:

Madison