Fellow Catholics?

[ddmoit]

Any fellow Catholics out there? There's no denying that it's been a rough decade or so for the Church. Add to that the oft told stories of the Crusades, the Inquisition, and scientific repression, it's easy to be downright discouraged.

If you're looking for legitimate reasons to feel good about the Church again, then I strongly recommend How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization, a book by Thomas E. Woods. Among other things, he addresses misconceptions about Papal infallibility, and the Church's relationship with science.

Nothing has done more to restore my faith than this book.

Here's a link to the author's Web site:

http://www.thomasewoods.com/index.html

A free chapter of the book is available for those interested. Mr. Woods will also be speaking at De Paul University the same week as Coverings in Chicago. I am considering attending his appearance if it is open to the public.

[Sponsored Links]

[jjwq8]

Isn't there an oxymoron in there somewhere?
If you need your faith revitalizing then surely you cannot be a catholic? :devil:

[irish tileguy in michigan]

not at all Jeremy,
i think most people doubt there faith once in a while, why even the bible is filled with stories of people having second thoughts (hence the name doubting thomas), and i think Jesus even had second thoughts once in the bible. the main thing is that people have their faith restored because thats what the word faith basically means "believing without seeing".
i think everyone needs somthing to believe in whether its religon or another person or even the knowlage to know this tile shower will turn out perfect.
my opinion.

[Scooter]

I had it out with our Priest--oh probably 8 years ago. As you know there were allegations that a Priest in this area molested kids, and the guy worked with our Priest both during and after the events in question.

The Priest was a very nice, down to earth kinda guy, the type of fellow you always go to with any problem big or small. I loved the guy like my brother.

So I call, schedule a short appointment, and inquire about this Priest in question and his actions. My Priest gets very defensive, basically tells me that creep is pure as snow, and that he has thoroughly checked the guy out and they are all lies.

So a year later it comes out the guy had priors, the Church knew about it, my Priest knew about it, and the whole system was trying to cover it up.

I am mad as helll and schedule another appointment and am basically told that according to some Church Doctrine No. 123-456 or something like that that its OK to lie if it protects the Church, and indeed it is his duty to lie now, then, and in the future if it protects the Church. I almost decked the guy, and it took everything in my brain to exercise enough self control not to slug the guy.

I've walked out, and never returned. The lies are not confined to Los Angeles, and it is apparently a systematic approach across the nation and the world.

I'm sorry, but this stinks. The Pope has to act and start firing any child molester and anyone who has covered it up and/or lied to cover it up. If thats a quarter, or a third of the Church, I don't care--but it has to be done.

[ddmoit]

I hear you, Scooter. Any human institution will suffer the failings of humans - even the Church.

It's hard to fathom how an institution founded for the salvation of humankind could shelter such evil. It's part of humanity though.

[irish tileguy in michigan]

i agree 100%

[Scooter]

I switched religions. I now worship Celtic Gods.

[irish tileguy in michigan]

lets hear it for the celts

[John Bridge]

How about fallen away Catholics? They qualifiy? If Scooter can switch, I can too. Celtic gods, eh? I like the singing group Celtic Woman, so it follows I'll probably like the gods, too.

And don't let Flatfloor get started about Sister Angelica, 'cause I'll have to chime in with tales of Sister Dorthea. :D

[ddmoit]

Do you like spaghetti, John? If so, you can also become a Pastafarian. :D

http://www.venganza.org/

[Theold--scottyb]

Im a born again sinner. Ahhhhhhhh what a good feeling..... :nod:

[bikemike]

Scooter,

It's a shame about the experience you had at your parish, and it's certainly not an isolated incident. The priests and laypeople that run the Catholic Church are not perfect. But if you believe that the Church was established by Jesus Christ through St. Peter, that the gates of hell will not prevail against it, and if you believe in the Real Presence of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist, I would recommend that you try a new parish instead of leaving the Church.

There is a great organization in El Cajon called Catholic Answers. They are on the radio and the web, their mission is to explain the faith and answer questions and doubts about the true teachings of the Church. They have apologist phone lines set up for the sole purpose of answering such questions. Their website is:

http://www.catholic.com/

There's something fishy about the explanation your priest gave about church doctrine. These folks will have the real story, I guarantee.

I am a devoted Catholic, I will discuss the faith with anyone on this board in a civil and respectable manner. I will do my best to answer questions, and if I don't know the answer I will tell you such and get back to you when I do.

By the way, for those of you who are unaware this Sunday is Divine Mercy Sunday. Always but particularly on this day Jesus calls all sinners, especially the hardest of sinners, to his compassionate Heart of Mercy.

You can find out more information about this devotion at:

http://www.ewtn.com/devotionals/mercy/feast.htm

http://www.thedivinemercy.org/message/devotions/mercysundy.php


Taken from the above website...


Our Lord revealed to St. Faustina His desire to literally flood us with His graces on that day. Just consider each of the promises and desires that He expressed about Mercy Sunday, which are recorded in the main passage of the Diary — passage 699 — about Mercy Sunday:

On that day the very depths of My tender Mercy are open.

I pour out a whole ocean of graces upon these souls who approach the Fount of My mercy [the Sacraments of Reconciliation and Holy Eucharist].

The soul that will go to Confession [beforehand] and receive Holy Communion [on that day] shall obtain complete forgiveness of sins and punishment.

On that day all the divine floodgates through which grace flow are opened.

Let no soul fear to draw near to Me, even though its sins be as scarlet.

The Feast of Mercy emerged from My very depths of tenderness.

It is My desire that it be solemnly celebrated on the first Sunday after Easter.

Have a good day everyone :)

[ddmoit]

Mike,

Thanks for adding your 2 cents to this thread. You might not get the same thing out of it as I did, but I think you will still enjoy the book I mentioned.

[bikemike]

Thanks Dan, I'll check it out.

Who'd a thunk it:

1) guy from St. Joseph - Catholic

2) irishtileguy - Catholic

:)

[Scooter]

The advantages of being a devout Celtic God Worshipper may not be obvious to all of you.

First of all there is no church--you worship at a tree or a stream or wherever you want.

There are no set days to worship.

Our Gods don't punish the worshippers with threats of hell and damnation, or reward guys with a promise of heaven or salvation. But you get to join the Gods upon death, which is pretty cool--so I got that going for me, which is nice.

Anyone can be a Priest with little or no training, just an expression of faith in the Celtic Gods.

There are many Celtic Gods, for the wind, the sun, the water etc, so you can pick one that fits your current mood or just with the one you like the most.

We let anyone worship--you can be gay. Heck you can even be gay with a partner or be gay "marrried." The Gods don't care. The Celtic Gods have no opinion on gay marriage, nor anything political.

The Celtic Gods don't support war but aren't really peacenicks either--either one is OK with them.

The Celtic Gods don't believe that only with worship to them are you saved--they're just down with being worshipped, and I am OK with that.

Being Celtic Gods, the Church is OK with beer. I haven't inquired about Bongs or hard liquor, but presumably they are OK too.

We don't send out groups of people to hand out brochures in your neighborhood.

The Celtic Gods are OK with birth control and abortion.

We have no tithings, so worship is cheap, for those of you on a budget.

Our Priests don't molest children.

[Tom Tee]

Ironic thing.......When Jesus was in His ministry on earth His biggest problem was organized religon. Just because he healed someone on a holy day they wanted to nail Him, literally.

One thing my dear pappy always told me "when it comes to your fiath do not follow a man, follow God. Men are likely to let you down".

Although not Catholic, I'v been through real dispointment with a church leader now and then. A counseler who helped me through a couple difficult issues encouraged me to not forsake God. Just find time to worship personally and quietly in another church location so as not to be distracted by the problematic hiumanity of the pastor.

Wise counsel. The pastor was gone after awhile and I returned.

Main concern was to not pull back from my Saviour in the mean time.

Hang in there, do not forsake the church.

tt

[bikemike]

Scooter,

I made an inquiry about the response your former priest gave you. I haven't heard back yet so I'll let you know when I do.

What troubles me is that you didn't just leave the Catholic Church, you left Christianity all together. I can't help but think that there's more to the story.

If you have a beef with the Catholic Church then fine, take your time to work that out. But please turn back to Jesus Christ, even if you don't want to step foot into a church building. Prayer and reading the Bible is where to start. Examine the evidence and ask yourself who can shelter you in this life and in the next.

By the way, this clergy abuse issue is one of many that gets blown out of proportion as if every priest is a pedophile. Pedophilia in the Catholic Church peaked in the 60s and 70s, not recently, and involved a small percentage of priests. It was and is a serious problem though, there's no denying that. Here are some statistics on the issue:

http://www.americancatholic.org/news/clergysexabuse/

:)

[bikemike]

I should note that the statistics in the above link are related to accusations, not convictions. I'm not going to argue what the relationship between the two will be, but I think it's fair to assume that some of the accusations will be found to be false.

:)

[ddmoit]

Mike,

I think Scooter is yanking our chain here (in fact, I hope he is).

The pedophilia issue and the silence and inaction surrounding it are truly a disgrace. However, I think there are many people who are looking for any convenient excuse to blame others for their own choice to separate themselves from the Church.

[flatfloor]

And don't let Flatfloor get started about Sister Angelica, 'cause I'll have to chime in with tales of Sister Dorthea

Ha! I'll bet Sister Angelica could beat the living crap out of Sister Dorothea. :D

[Dave Taylor]

Flat conjectured...... Ha! I'll bet Sister Angelica could beat the living crap out of Sister Dorothea
Don't git's me started wif' ol' Sister Broomhilda... straightest shot wif' a dusty chalk eraser in the Midwest. She could prolly’ take A & D on both before noon rosary.... wif' time left for final class vespers ... .. .:sheep:

[ddmoit]

http://www.lewrockwell.com/woods/woods83.html

...Ron Paul comes out decisively on top in a study of the candidates’ positions on the issues according to the guidelines recently established by the United States bishops. (If anything, I think this study understates Paul’s compatibility with Catholic teaching.)

[Tom Tee]

Hey Scooter, Partly in fun and otherwise just to get a more through understanding of the all encomopassing openness, ie the mechanics, of this celtics religon...................if every one is acepted and there is no condemnation and you can worship anything ya wants, what abouts a mabala or whatever the acronam is (Man/BoyLove People) who worship little boys??

Just speaking in hypathetical principle.

If there is no condemnation than all things are on the table.

A centry ago divorce, open sex, gays, abortion etc, etc were extreamly taboo. Now because of the proliferation of unresrtained exercise of personal variations and the ban on God and dismissal of a Triune Godhead all bets are off.

Who is to say that years from now sex with children will be a new way of life protected like gays. Afterall, earlier in our society the aforementioned activities were also thought to be way out there. Degeneration is slow but sure.

I know I am rambling somewhat, but unrestrained openness has always concerned me. In much the same way as unrestrained restriction, ie hard line middle eastern zelots.

IMO I truely believe Liberty and Freedom have responsibility of conduct, commitment and some form of well established code of ethics that are not based in special interests like a wacko religious sect or some aberation of human conduct.

Not Catholic here, but I feel very compassionate for the followers of that Faith. It has been hijacked by a bunch of good ol' boys who are making a mess for all the really great leaders of the Roman Catholic Church.

One thing my father always told me was, in spiritual matters do not look to man for purity, only God. Priests lead us in worship and attend to our spiritual understanding but are only one begger telling another begger where to find bread in the overall scheme of things.

Therefore, IMO, don't dismiss a particular faith system because of corruption in core spots. As w/ world history, there are seasons of corruption
that plague mankind in politics, religon and social conduct.

I would only wish to encourage , in this case Catholics, that this too shall pass. Things will get better, things will get worse, time goes on. Frequently when I am ready to condem others I look in a mirrow and almost burst in laughter, or tears, at my hypocrisy.
tt

[John Bridge]

Don't know how I overlooked it all this time, but it looks to me like Flatfloor posted a picture of Dorthea, not Angelica. Where'd you get that pic?

:D

[tilerite]

And where does a Jewish tile setter fit into this mess??

[jvcstone]

Who is to say that years from now sex with children will be a new way of life protected like gays.

Well it might become popular again, buy it certainly is not a "new way of life"

Man-boy love was real popular amongst cultures like the ancient Greeks ( the first true democracy BTW) and I'm thinking the Romans also.

The Gods don't care. The Celtic Gods have no opinion on gay marriage, nor anything political.

The god of my understanding would fit right in with those guys. God has given us all free choice, and doesn't bother with micro-managing the affairs of man.

JVC

[Chris the Rep]

I walked away almost 20 years ago...

When I went to inquire about enrolling my daughter in the local parish grade school (which I also attended) I was informed of the tuition, book fees, and the other costs involved.

Then I was informed that we had to submit our prior 3 years tax returns to the parish school council for the to determine how much "sacrificial giving" we would have to agree to in addition to tithing and tuition, and that decision of the council was arbitrary unless I could demonstate otherwise.

She and my son both got a great education in the public schools, and I've never been back.

The constant haranguing to give has driven many friends and acquaintences away from the RC Church.

A friend of mine who was always good for a cynical POV and sarcastic comment would offer the following comments when the topic of religion came up.

"Churches and jails, I go out of my way to avoid both. I can't afford either one."

"My religion only has 7 commandments, and you get to pick them"

Chris

[JTG]

It is a fine line between Saturday night and Sunday morning.
:D
JTG

[Tom Tee]

Chris,

Juss some thoughts:

I do not ever really expect to obey any set of commandments no matter how few.

In my understanding the 10 commandments were set out there not so much as His thinking that we will follow them but to show us, because of the inability on our own strength how much we needed God and the demonstration of blood atonements set forth in the early Jewish culture of the tabernacle system to make us right before a Holy God.

The significance of transgressions were shown in the significance of the atonement. A blood sacrifice.

From the fall of creation where due to disobedience, there was the self consicious shame of Adam and Eve's nakedness which could only be covered by the skins of a slain animal; to the conflict between Cain and Able, the only scrifice acceptable was Able's, at the cost of an animal's life. Continued on through the establishment of the moral, civil and ceramonial laws of the Jewish community.

Some today get tied up with the bloody gore of animal sacrifice. Heck, animals are sacrificed every day for my hambergers.

But the real story is in the Levitical priestly dutys of going before God daily in the tabernacle with the first born lambs for sin offerings, as God required. From my perspective, a forshadowing of Calvary.

The point to pick up on is the utter inability of a fallen person to approach a Holy God on their own terms. Much like a hack artist who insists on performing some aberration installation with a self styled installation protocole destined to fail.

Finding favor with God by appraoching Him humbly w/ a repentant heart and an expectant ear is the path many are striving to follow.

In my understanding of Jesus as the "anointed" one of God (Greek transliteration=Christ, Hebrew transliteration=Messiah) His was the final sacrifice, the Perfect Lamb of God. The bedrock of the Christian faith.

There was a long road for me to process this in my life. It was in reading early Hebrew history that I came to see the developing process culminating in the redemptive work on the cross. A death which no people group did to Him but one to which he from the fall of Adam set his face to do.

tt

[John Bridge]

Jerry the Tile Guy attends a really cool little church in Seattle populated by ex post facto fallen away Catholics (Lutherans). Patti and I checked in one Sunday morning to catch Jerry and his Patti performing during the service, which, by the way, was conducted by a lady minister. ;)

Patti Nebel (voice of an angel with red hair) in the foreground (far right). Jerry playing guitar way in the back.