Civilization...

[Eugenius]

What does that mean and who are the civilized people?

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[Eugenius]

Good question Doug. I'm glad you asked....I recently saw a couple of movies, 'The New World' ( Terrence Mallick) and 'End of the Spear'. Mallicks' movies (Thin Red Line) are some of the most beautiful cinematographic experiences but he puts me to sleep. In 'New World', it's 1607 and several ships arrive from England to obviously subdue, colonize and expand the empire. They encounter the indigenous 'uncivilized' populace and after sniffing one another and actually interacting socially for a short time, they mutually decide to destroy one another. But I'm thinking, who are the good guys and who are the bad guys? Who are the civilized?

In 'End of the Spear' missionaries in mid 1950's Ecuador I think, Amazon, rain forest thing are trying to make contact and get a foot in the door with the fierce Waodani tribe. (it would have been a much better movie shot in the Terrance Mallick style) After flying into the rain forest, the missionaries make contact and banter about with the Waodani. The missionaries are all naive...The Waodani soon kill the 5 missionaries based on erroneous information...outright lies. (Sound recently familiar? ) At the end of the movie , the Waodani are wearing Levi's, flannel shirts and trucker caps as opposed to their , "Damn, it's hot here in the jungle!", attire.

Who is civilized? Who is uncivilizd?

Are the Iraqui's civilized? Are we civilized? Is Al Queda civilized?

Does civilized mean that you have a cell phone and indoor plumbing?

[Eugenius]

It occurred to me just now while watching 'King of the Hill', the episode where Bobby becomes a Rodeo Clown that perhaps my struggle in this thought process about the craziness of civilization is due to the fact that God created the world and that man then created 'civilization'. God created man and then man multiplied and morphed of his own free will into 'civilization' where epoch after epoch, the society with the most advanced weaponry became the most advanced 'civilized people'. The strongest was king of the hilll till someone came along and knocked them off the hill.

I gotta go watch 'Deal or no Deal'.

[stonemason777]

That's why I'm a mud man. Isn't it strange that the trade has survived it all? Follow the precepts! You'll find your peace of mind.

[Eugenius]

talk to yourself.

Michael Keaton in 'Multiplicity' is a contractor who in an attempt to satisfy all his customers demands, discovers a way to clone himself.

Each succeeding clone is more stupid than the previous.

In the march of civilization, does each succeding generation get smarter or more stupid?

[Steven Hauser]

It's a moot question as intelligence and the rating of intelligence has many other variables attached to it. The winners historically had better guns, diseases, and steel. There is a fascinating book by Jared Diamond of the same name. Perhaps you can read it and we can discuss it.

Conversely,
I may not understand the question correctly. Can you restate it?

[jjwq8]

Eugenius
Perhaps the best measure of you conundrum is to determine how quickly each declared "mission accomplished".

[Eugenius]

Steven, civilization and "intelligence" as you mentioned are historically nothing more than 'strange bedfellows'. The relationship flourishes for a time but never seems to last...Greeks, Medes, Persians, Babylonians, Romans, Mayans, Aztecs, Spain, Great Britan, Nazi Germany,...

and so on,...intelligence (1+2=4) has insured no one's survival. What does (1+2=4) taste like? Perhaps it tastes faintly of the rise and fall yet strongly of the hope of conquest.

[Eugenius]

after thinking about it, I see your point, Jeremy. Does 'civilization' have a shelf life? (turnover)