Pearl Harbor Day

[John Bridge]

We managed to let Pearl Harbor Day slip by without comment. As some of you know, I had a brother who was a Pearl Harbor Survivor. My brother Bob, who died this past summer, was on the battleship Nevada, which was sunk.

He got off unscathed and caught a ride on the cruiser Phoenix which was not hit and was making it's way out to open sea. On board the Phoenix he met my future brother-in-law, Russ Marlow, who still lives north of Seattle with my sister. So I still have a Pearl Harbor survivor in the family.

There aren't many of the old guys and gals left. The Pearl Harbor Survivors Association just concluded its annual reunion here in Houston. They have a web site, but it's not well attended. There is a bit of history there, though.

The Nevada was re-floated and finished out the war, by the way. The Phoenix was sold to the Argentine navy and was sunk by the British during the Falkland Islands War. How's that for irony? Russ Marlow is still pissed at the Brits for sinking his ship. The only thing remaining of it is the ship's bell.

http://pearlharborsurvivorsonline.org/

[Sponsored Links]

[JC]

Did you see that movie that was just out about it...pretty good I thought. Hard to imagine all the suffering.

[davem]

I didn't get much work done in the shop this weekend, was glued to the History channel and all the Pearl Harbor shows. My Dad was on a sub tender in the Pacific during the war. He died of cancer before I wised up about a lot of things, I wish I could have the chance to talk to him about many things, the war being one of them.

[Hobbit]

Sorry, I haven't been around for a few days. I'm glad there are still those around who care to remember these points in history. In the overall scheme of things, Pearl Harbor Day is probably only important to the United States. But, I believe it to be one of the defining moments in our history. There have been several, but this is one of them.

I will never forget Pearl Harbor Day, so I intentionally scheduled it as a tickler for another important day. Linda and I were married on December 7. Just like Pearl Harbor Day, I'll never forget our anniversary!!:)

:) :)

[drew]

Here, Here, John, we should all take a moment & thank & remember those brave folks who gave so much in order for us to live the lives we do today.

[John Bridge]

Well Howard, you could say Pearl Harbor was important to the Western Europeans because that event gave Roosevelt an opportunity to jump into the war with both feet. I'm sure the war in Europe was at least shortened a little by our presence. :)


I had three brothers who served in the Pacific during WW2, one each in the army, navy and marines. They have all three passed on.

[Hobbit]

Of course, your point is well made about the conflict in Europe. The attack on Pearl Harbor possibly hastened U.S. intervention, but certainly was not a causal factor with respect to our presence in the European war.

If you recall, Roosevelt and Churchill signed the Atlantic Charter earlier in 1941. It obligated the United States to fight the "Axis Powers." The Axis Powers can into being sometime in 1940 with the signing of a mutual agreement between Germany, Italy and Japan. Other countries joined the pact later, but were largely ineffective and only signed on to forestall an attack by Germany.

So, the U.S. was obligated against the Axis powers before the Japanese attack. In reality, the U.S. was already taking action against Germany, although on a very limited scale, for at least a year before Pearl Harbor.

So, the European Allies were very happy to have U.S. support, but they hardly were jumping for joy because of Pearl Harbor. In reality, they were far too concerned with their own very immediate problems (staying alive and viable as nations) to offer more than a passing glance at the Pacific theatre where Japan was operating. They realized, as did we, that the Japanese attack had effectively crippled the Pacific fleet and would require a tremendous amount of American intervention in the Pacific, thereby reducing the amount of support the U.S. could offer to Europe. We knew, and Europe understood, that fighting a war on two fronts was more than twice as difficult, requiring instead a logarithmic increase in effort to supply and sustain fighting forces in areas half a world apart. (A fact that was apparently lost on Germany, but that soon became readily apparent!!;)).

However, I would guess that Australia was very worried about Japan because of their involvement with England in the European theatre. They would have been very happy (IMO) to see U.S. involvement in the Pacific because it strengthened their position and provided a little cushion against Japan. (Conjecture on my part.:))

There were a lot of fine men lost in the Pacific, John. Almost 1200 on the Arizona, destroyed by one bomb, a direct hit into the munitions magazine. I know you are justly proud of your brothers. So am I.

:):)

[cx]

Mmmm, I managed to miss this thread somehow.

My own pappy was at Pearl for the big festivities. Was in the Army Aircorps. Tail gunner on B-17s. Never talked much about it at all.

His effort during the attack was apparently limited to hiding between a couple of the big hanger doors, armed with his breakfast spoon. :)

Came home from the war with serious stomach ulcer problems which later involved much surgery and many months hospitalization. He attributed the problem to being very scared most of the time for way too long. He loved Hawaii, but I don't think he was very fond of war.

I enjoyed Hawaii, too, but didn't get shot at much during my tour of duty. There were still (1965/66) lots of reminders of past hostilities: Concrete gun placements on the beaches off the end of the runway at Barbers Point, huge underground ammo storage bunkers in the mountains with monstrous steel doors and railroad tracks where we were sent for "Escape and Evasion" training, old tank turrets and treads sticking out of the sand in the out-of-the-way beaches, and such. Was not always a fun place for all. Saw much of the same on many islands we visited between there and the Philippines. Shipwrecks still visible just offshore, Jap Zero carcasses near the runways, bunkers of all sorts. An area with a violent past, for sure. And still drop-dead beautiful for the most part (the part without people, anyway).

Educational places too, but I don't think we learned much.

[Hobbit]

Wow, great stuff!!:)

I haven't seen any of that. Sounds like you got to see quite a lot of the historical stuff dating to the war.

Details man, details.:)

:):)

[cx]

Yeah, Howard, it was a golden opportunity and mostly wasted due to the misplaced priorities of youth, I'm afraid (I was barely 20 years old when I transferred out of Hawaii).

Set foot on a substantial portion of the islands with a usable runway between the Sandwich Islands and Manila, and several with runways that wouldn't necessarily be considered usable.

Never could manage to get on Niihau (in the Hawaiians), even though it has a runway - no Haoles (all-same Gringos) allowed on that little place. Still had mostly grass-roofed huts then, and a really nice leper colony, we're told.

Harassed the Goony Birds on Midway. Got escorted around by guys with machine guns on Johnston (still a lot of secret nuke stuff there at the time, we guessed). Really nice transient facilities on Midway. Smuggled Beatle Nut from Yap, which we traded for pineapples we brought for just that purpose. Bought blow guns and real poison darts on Palau, I think (had blow gun fights in the CO-130 all the way home before we found out they really were poisoned!). Bought Narataki (sp?) china on Guam for all the family guys (10 or 12 place setting was about $42, as I recall). Got sick trying the Beatle Nut in Manila. Tried Painted Label San Miguel beer there, too (I didn't drink beer at the time, but was tole I hadta try it anyway), and the labels really were painted on the bottles. Did not try Blouks (or something like that - old rotten eggs) there.

And there were lots of other islands betwix those that had USCG Loran stations on them that required periodic visits. I'm sure they all had names, but I've slept since then. One I recall was Kure and I recall that one on accounta I stole the sign they had on the outhouse-size shack where they kept their fire-bottle - said, Kure International Airport. :) And French Frigate Shoals, where we always traded whiskey for Japanese glass fishing net floats, which were a big decorator item at the time. We were trading with the other USCG guys there; weren't any natives, just twenty guys and two dogs on an island three thousand feet long and a thousand feet wide, surrounded by the most beautiful water you can imagine. They had not much better to do than collect glass balls, and they weren't allowed to have whiskey, so I took orders for glass balls on Oahu an orders for whiskey on FFS every week. USCG was part of the Treasury Department back then, but we did a lot of smuggling anyway. :p

Ah, yes, brings back the ol' memories for sure. Coulda seen and done and learned a lot more in those two years, were it not for hormones and Stewardesses. :D

[John Bridge]

Man, I've never had a shot at painted label San Miguel, only the paper label variety (which was bueno). :) (Or was it printed label? Don't remember.)

And besides Okinawa and Luzon (Phillipines), the only Pacific island I got to land on was Wake. Wake is like that other one you talked about -- just long enough for a runway. I was in a 707 on the way to Nam. Landing was not very memorable, but taking off was something else. We are rushing down the runway, and the captain intoned, "Well, boys, we just passed the point of no return. It's either up or . . . well, nevermind."

At nearly the precise moment the landing gear came off the deck we were fresh out of runway and over the ocean. :D

Howard, I forgot how smart you are. I'll remember next time. :D

[cx]

Naaa, John, Wake had a looooooong runway compared to French Frigate Shoals, and Wake's was paved, too. I'm sure it seemed short in a big fat ol' 707, though. :)

The principle was much the same on the take-off, however. In our little twice engine seaplanes (all of which were older than I at the time), with a sand and sea shell runway surface, one reached the speed at which one could no longer stop looooong before one reached the speed at which one could fly. SOP was to put the landing gear handle in the up position just after that speed was reached, based upon the theory that you would either fly or end up in the water and there weren't no real good reason to have wheels for either one. :D

They musta moved one of the buildings on the island on accounta I'm told they started servicing it with C-130s not long after I left. It had always been thought the runway clearance was too narrow for the wingspan of the 130. Or maybe they just got flight crews with bigger juevos. :p

Anyway, it was a real experience bouncing around out there. I just wish I had been older and/or wiser and taken better advantage of the opportunity.

[Hobbit]

Sounds like you got a few memories out of it anyway. That's more than most have these days. I spent a lot of time in Europe.........Germany, Luxembourg, France, England........ I think the most interesting aspect of it all was the way the resident population treated Americans, especially military men. It was really enlightening.:)



Let's see, how does it go.............??

"Too soon old, too late smart.";)

:):)

[John Bridge]

Howard,

My favorite quote along those lines is Chausser, and I mangled it once before on here a year or so ago. I think it goes:

"The lyf so short, the craft so long to lern."

Rob Z. has a friend who is a lit professor who set me straight on that once before. Maybe he'll return.

CX,

I truly thought Wake's was a short runway, but you're right. It was asphalt or concrete or whatever. The civilian flight crews actually spent a night there each way. They had the old WWII clapboard buildings there on one side. We changed crews on wake enroute to the Phillipines.

And you're right about the wheels. Who needs them once there's no more runway?

:D

[flatfloor]

Long Island still has bunkers along the shoreline out towards Montauk Point. There is a move afoot to restore some of them.

A German sub actually landed 4 saboteurs in Amagansett, about 20 miles from me. Coast Guard caught em CX.

http://www.lihistory.com/tmachine/hs020b.htm

[JC]

they were electrocuted...Are you allowed to eletrocute prisoners of war?

[flatfloor]

There was a shortage of bullets. ;)