Labor Day!

[flatfloor]

I hope everyone has the whole the weekend off, I was fortunate enough to take most of today off and start early.

I think some of you, myself included, are kind of down on unions right now but I can't help but wonder how I would be doing today if my Pop (immigrated here from Ireland when he was about 20) hadn't of been fortunate enough to get into the Teamsters and drive a beer truck for a living. Made a comfortable living, got me thru college, decent pension and Mom was still getting it until she passed away.

Anyway, have a great time, you guys up North, when is yours? I'll have a beer then too.

[Sponsored Links]

[Bud Cline]

Don't get me goin on the union thing here, I can really get things stirred on that subject.

Remember?

[John Bridge]

Happy Labour Day (that's Canadian for Labor Day).

Jim,

Never even considered that you might be Irish (I'm not, of course). Because of the rain I've decided to celebrate by working Monday. That and the fact that Patti's on my butt for missing a couple days.

Used to do a respectable rendition of "Irish Lulluby." Got me a lot of drinks back in the day. When that played out I would move seemlessly into "Loch Lomond." Drunks don't know the difference between an Irish song and a Scottish one, and I, being a mongrel, didn't care either.

[cx]

Get him goin' on the Union thing, John, so I can tell about the time Ronnie Reagan fired me and decertified my union.

We gonna have a Union Forum?

[Rob Z]

If you really want to see some fireworks, go search JLC for the time MB went ballistic over unions.

'member that one, Kelly?

[cx]

I do, I do!

But I didn't axe him for no Union Forum, on accounta he ain't nooooo fun.

[John Bridge]

Hey, you fine fellows can talk about anything you want to on this forum. Just don't let my big brother Bob hear you say anything critical of the Union. He's 79 and still carrying his card.

We have some other union people on here too, so be nice.

Personally, I quit the Union when they told me I couldn't be a contractor. That was after I already had my state license.

You got fired by Reagan, Kelly? Were you a department head of what?

[cx]

Not hardly, John. Fluent Union spoken here.

I belonged to the Professional Air Traffic Controllers Organization (PATCO) back in 1981. Had the audacity not to go to work one day, along with twelve thousand or so other similarly situated employees, so he fired us all. Even sent a few of my Brothers to federal penitentiary for participating in the strike.

You might recall this all happening about the same time the Solidarity Union movement was being smashed in Poland. Ronnie supported those Union members wholeheartedly. Said all workers should have the right to strike, him having been president of the Screen Actors Guild once upon a time. Long story.

And y'all been paying for it ever since. 48 billion dollars at last count - they were counting because the FAA was axing for another 10 billion to study the problem some more.

I think it would be fun to hear your daddy's opinion of his Union being one of only two who endorsed Reagan for President in 1980.




The other was PATCO. Loooong story.

[John Bridge]

I knew you weren't a department head. Just trying to get you on a brighter note. I knew exactly which union you were speaking of. Remember it well.

[cx]

Why you sly ol' dog.

Still would like to get your daddy to post a view of the Teamster's support of Reagan. He (yo daddy) computerized?

[John Bridge]

I think now you have me confused with Jim Buckley (flatfloor). He's the guy who was talking about his dad. My dad left this world in 1948. Come to think of it, he was a union man, though.

[cx]

Yeah, I was confused, and it wasn't my first time neither.

Was Jim said his daddy was a teamster. Get him over here, flatfloor. Axe him about endorsing Reagan. And about going back into the AFL/CIO too.

Was your brother Bob confused me. Get him on here, too, for an opinion. He was in what union? Had separate tile setters union then?

Union Forum! Union Forum! Union Forum!

[John Bridge]

No union forum. No union forum. No union forum.

Maybe boat forum, but no union forum.

Brother Bob is in the tile and bricklayers union, the same one tileprof is in. Had Bob's picture on here before. Guess I'll revive him.
http://www.johnbridge.com/bob.jpg
That ain't CocaCola in that mug, either.

[Edited by John Bridge on 09-01-2001 at 07:38 PM]

[Bud Cline]

You won't catch me being critical of the unions. That would be the best thing that could happen to the flooring installation community.

I have certainly had my ups and downs with some unions but I still beleive in the concept. I can't help it if they keep shooting themselves in the foot with their greedy underhanded practices. Unfortunately it's the Rank and File that allows it to happen. Fortunately unions are like anything else; they aren't all the same.

Personally I think the entire country should have shut down over the PATCO raid. It should have never been allowed to happen.

Past Cardholder: Teamsters, CWA, Carpenters Local, IBAE.

[cx]

I wrote a great long dissertation on what Union doesn't mean any more but, fortunately, I remembered we aren't gonna have a Union Forum and erased it all.

Suffice to say that the problems with labor organizations today are the same as the problems with American government today: The members have, through ignorance and apathy, allowed someone else to take control of their organization. And in both cases the founding principles have been lost in the take-over. And that's sad.

Bud:
Organized labor has paid a hell of a price for not supporting PATCO in 1981, but how many people do you know today who are even aware of that? And then there's the AFL/CIO that barely waited until PATCO's dead carcas was cool before recognizing the new scab union and starting to collect their dues. Very long, sad story.

Which card were you carrying in 1981? CWA was among the strongest supporters we had after the strike - for years after the strike in many areas.

I'm not trying to organize a Union Forum, John, I promise. But it is Labor Day.

Where's Bob?

Where's Jim's daddy?

[John Bridge]

Geez, I said okay to a boat forum!

Bob right now is occupied trying to get someone to drive him and his motor home down to Yuma in a month or so (he can't handle it anymore). After he wears out his welcome at the Yuma VFW, I'll fly over and drive him here, where he'll reside for the rest of the winter. Somehow in the spring someone will ferry him back up to the Puget Sound area (he lives 50 mi. north of Seattle.)

So right now he wouldn't give a s . . ., as long as his check comes from the local each month.

Anybody can say anything here, but we do have members who are in the unions.

[cx]

And for those out there who still have a union to belong to, I ask: When's the last time you attended a local meeting? Get thee more involved. Or, as we preached in the old days, "Make sure there's a U in your Union!" It ain't enough just to pay your dues.

Now, about that boat forum, I don't remember anyone reporting back on the floating beer experiment. Don't even remember who started that. But lots of boats will be out on the lakes on Labor Day weekend. Surely the experiment is being carried out on some of them.

[Bud Cline]

Now I'm really scratchin'my head.

CWA (St. Louis, MO.): Southwestern Bell Telephone, late sixties.

AIRLINE EMPLOYEES LOCAL (St.Louis, MO./Palm Springs, CA./Phoenix, AZ.): early seventies.

TEAMSTERS LOCAL 525 Heavy Haulers (Alton Illinois): early to mid seventies.

Beats me man, I've slept since then.

[flatfloor]

He probably would have been pissed, if he had been around, I know I was when the PATCO thing happened.

Thing is he knew the Unions had gone to far in their demands. Just before he retired after about 30 years, he was second man in seniority in his local and he got to pick his route, no fool he, he took the easiest. Which meant a ride to the ferry to Staten Island, ferry across, ride to two deliveries, ride back, ride the ferry, ride to the brewery, done for the day. Maybe 4 hours.

Unfortunately the construction unions took it too far also, ridiculous work rules, many of which are still in effect although with give-backs things are changing.

Cadillacs, expense accounts, questionable loans, bribery, sweetheart contracts all have lead to the demise of unions.

Personally as you may have guessed I believe in unions, to me it was never a question of wages or benefits, it was the outlandish work rules.

[John Bridge]

I tried shifting it over to boats, but . . . it IS Labor Day.

When I joined the United Brotherhood of Carpenters and Joiners of America (Mesa, AZ) as an apprentice in 1969 my rate of pay was $3.36 per hour. Journeymen got $5.07. By the time I quit the union less than three years later, journeymen had doubled their hourly rate and were pushing for more bennies. I don't know what the trades situation is in Arizona right now, but I know the unions have just about lost it in housing.

Here's my beef (really). In my third year of apprenticeship we went out in sympathy with the blocklayers/bricklayers for 6 weeks. They lost 55% of their work to stucco crews and went back, settling for a nickle.

During the strike another guy an I did a little scabbing. We both had small children to feed. Anyway, we contracted the framing of a few houses and decided we wanted to go into business. Since I had most of the book smarts (even though my partner was a union journeyman) I took the state test and passed with flying colors.

License in hand, I approached the business agent and told him we wanted to go signatory (become a union contractor). BA stated that I couldn't be a contractor because I was an apprentice and had to finish out my four years. I pointed out that my partner had merely come in from another state and bought his journeyman card without any prior union experience. BA said that didn't matter. Once you sign up for apprenticeship you had to finish.

There were hundreds of guys in the area who had never gone through apprenticeship who were journeymen, and I venture not of one of them could have passed the state exams.

The outcome is that I quit the union and became a non-union contractor.

The other outcome was that my big brother Bob was pissed, but he got over it.

Jim,

Work rules: One I remember among many: It was illegal to own a level longer than 30 inches. If you needed a longer one, the contractor had to provide it.

I've never looked back.

[Simple]

Labor Day Recipe:
http://users2.ev1.net/~mksr/margarita.jpg

[tileprof]

i've been a union member since 85 (the year i got married).The money is good ,full medical,dental,eye care for me and my family.Plus a good pension.The B.A.C. is an international union with locals in most cities in Canada and U.S.A. Most offer training or upgrading or any technical advice that may be needed (members only).And yes jc i do attend meetings. Prior to joining i worked non-union for 11 years with very little assets to show for it and NO retirement nest egg.I feel the union is the best thing that could have happened to me !
john a member can be a contractor/member

Steven K

[John Bridge]

It's a moot point now, Steven. In Houston the tile setters local is so weak, I don't even know anyone who belongs. The only jobs they do are government ones.

I'm strictly in the residential business. There are no union contractors in that department.

Texas, like most southern states, is "right to work", and the unions have completely lost residential.

[Bud Cline]

The union was good for me also but the BS and I didn't have a great future. Because I didn't agree with BS the BA was always on me about something. Me, can you imagine that.

When a Teamster, I was hauling rock onto a construction job one day and being paid by the load. I arrived to dump my load but the "laborer" that was supposed to be there to "pull my tailgate lever" was no where to be found. It wasn't break time and I was in a hurry to grab another load so I reached out my window and pulled the lever myself. My God you would have thought the four thirty whistle blew. This massive job at a steel mill was shut down in its entirety within five minutes. BAM, GRIEVANCE FILED! I was sent home for two days without any pay of course.

While in the Airline Employees Union I was taking tickets at the departure gate when I got a call from the main ticket desk that we had a runner. Now this guy had to run about two city blocks to get to me and we were on final close out less than two minutes from push away. So being the loyal helpful friendly courteous employee I was I ran to meet the guy on the concourse, took his ticket handed him his boarding pass took his bag (all while running) and ran with him to the bottom of the passenger stairway at which time I ran under the belly of the plane and slung his bag into the forward hold where it was caught by a baggage employee and stowed. All this while the engines were revving some and the push tractor was waiting for me. Everyone gave a thumbs up and away he went, departure on time. Another job well done. I collected my other paperwork at my check in desk and was returning to my office when my name was announced over the airport paging system to report to my supervisors office. Seems that I wasn't allowed to carry that mans bag across a yellow line somewhere painted on the tarmack, but I did. BAM, GRIEVANCE FILED! I got two days off for that also.

When I had my restaurant I had a contract with the Cooks, Waitresses and Bartenders Local and ran a union shop. I wanted to do some remodelling (at night) and they said I must hire all union people from the hall to do it. This wasn't affordable for me and I was capable of doing the work myself. So I began remodelling at night. Well that lasted about two days when a load of building materials arrived one afternoon and I began to unload the goods myself. Those bastards where setting in a car somewhere watching and as I was unloading, a picket line (with signs) was forming at the front door of my business. Someone had to tell them that load was coming to me and those signs didn't just fall from the sky, they said "Cline's Restaurant Unfair to Organized Labor". What a bunch of low life low budget dirt bags they were back then.

[Rob Z]

Bud

An electrician friend of mine has told me similar stories about jobs where they were wiring and if a board or something was in the way, they had to stop working and sit on their ass until someone from the carpenters union would come and take a hammer or sawzall to remove the board.

Virginia is a right to work state, but over in MD and DC the union thing is strong. I haven't run into much union activity myself.

Now, if you want to talk about some really pathetic people...the teachers' unions I was "encouraged" to join when I was in the school system were a story unto themselves. I never did join.

[Ron]

Years ago,I took some time off from tile work for a few weeks to work for a friend's high-rise scaffold company;"Mammoth Erection" is the name,believe it or not.

Anyway,it was a particularly hot summer,like this year,and we were working a union site with union rules,although his company wasn't union then.I found out that we could not wear shorts or sleeveless shirts.Whenever a guy took a shirt off,all hell broke loose.That's the only negative experience I've had with union rules but I've heard similar stories as you've told.Seems like there's a strike every month here in and around Toronto.

[Rob Z]

Ron

Hell, I'd go to work for them just to get some company t-shirts and anything else with a logo on it.

There is a company here in Virginia called "Rock Hard" construction. Good, but not as good as Mammoth Erection.

[Ron]

Rob,

A while ago that company was working at a college and their big black and yellow banner went missing.Undoubtably it's hanging in some punk's dorm right now.

On my friend Dave's business card,beside his name,it reads:Erection Specialist.

When I helped him out on that one building,I asked him what my title would be."Erection Helper"says he.I was as unhappy,no,unhappier,with that name as I was when John had briefly given me the name,"Toronto Mud Packer"

[Rob Z]

Your friend Dave is missing out on a chance to make some money selling merchandise with the company logo on it. It would sell well to all the college pukes, gen x-ers, and the pseudo construction types that like to wear Carharts and Red Wings when they do their three days of work around the house per year.

Kinda like all the guys I see with all the Harley stuff and they don't own a motorcycle. Or even better, they're on a Kawasaki or a Honda.

Do you list the erection experience on your resume?

[Bri]

Hey Ron

Who you callin' a punk?...besides..if you didn't want me to steal it..you shouldn't have left all that scaffolding around!!!

Brian

[Bud Cline]

When I first moved to Dallas (81) I worked with a guy that did conveyor installations and other light weight material handling equipment installations on the side.

He called his sideline company "Action Erection". His logo was in fact a turtle in a hardhat. He had logo'd T-shirts and hats before they were as big as they are now. His garments were very popular and he knew how to play the game. He passed those things (hats & T's) out like business cards and ballpoint pens. We had great fun with that project.

One more union story:

I was a teamster driver on a one ton (one ton) flatbed truck used at a refinery construction project. I was the goffer truck. It was winter in Illinois. They didn't have a need for such a small truck so mostly I just sat in the truck. I was assigned to the pipefitters but wasn't really allowed in their trailer or fabrication tent so I just sat in my truck. Most of their movement of materials were segments of piping they had fabricated in the tent and big enough to be hauled on a tractor trailer flatbed. So I just sat in my truck. I would read and eat and listen to the radio and I would just sit in the truck. Occaisionally I would fall asleep, someone would notice and call my (on site) shop steward and he would come and wake me up by beating on the drivers door, then he would go "write-me-up", while I just sat in my truck.

I never told anyone of the times a pipefitter would jump in my truck and direct me to leave the plant and go into town. I don't know what for but I would always take him to a liquor store. He would go in with a toolbox and return in about five minutes then it was back to the plant to sit in my truck. I looked forward to these daily trips into town, I don't know what for because otherwise I would just sit in my truck.

I never told anyone about the three trips I did make hauling 4" processed piping from the plant to a new residence under construction about 15 miles away. They would unload the fabricated pieces and we would return to the plant so I could sit in my truck.

I never told anyone about the pipefitter that offered me $100 to haul a new portable welder out of the plant to meet his brother at his farm to unload the welder. When I refused they never asked again. But that was probably because the very next day I was back at the hall looking for work.

[cx]

Small wonder Union became a dirty word.

I've never actually dealt with any of the building trades unions in any of my work, but of course have heard all those stories and more.

Again, somewhere along the way, the membership let it all slip away, and the principles were just lost. How to get it back? Yo no se.

I think the saddest part is that the rank and file, the few that are left, must be aware of all the problems by now. But what do they do? Sounds like they leave, and who could blame them?

Curious to know if those my age will live to see the pendulum swing back the other way. Pendulum sloooooow.

Alas, now I work for me, and I'm the only employee. We keep a good Union shop, have a good collective bargaining agreement, good working relationship between management and labor (most of the time), reasonable and intelligent shop stewards, enlightened supervisors, and we are all dedicated to providing a superior product for our customers. Profits are low, benefits non-existent, hours are long and seven day weeks the norm, but morale is high (usually) and we haven't had strike rumors for years. Kelly's Custom Homes is just a fine place to work. Ask anyone here!

[JC]

Bud, that was funny as hell...

[Ron]

Kelly,

I work for a similar company,Terra Firma Tile,under the same conditions.My supervisor is kinda unorganized though but I'm pressing him to work on that.He's a swell guy otherwise,except he's up too late messin' around on the damn internet sometimes.Those John Bridge and Harry Dunbar forums,you know.

Then in the mornings I really gotta get some coffees in 'em to get him movin'.

[cx]

Yeah, Ron, we work Labor Day too, so what the hell's MY boss doing screwing around on the web this time of night?

It's never easy, but we try.

[Ron]

Kelly,

Labour day here too,but the boss has got me working tomorrow.And he wants me to get up early to change the oil in the truck at the shop before we venture off to work.I'm a tilesetter,dammit,not a mechanic!He's too cheap and paranoid to take it to a Jiffy-Lube.Well...he is still the boss though,gotta do what he says.

[Bri]

Good Morning, John...Happy Labour Day too you...I see you and I are the only one's on line....I'm going fishing!

BRian

[Bud Cline]

Not exactly there early bird. Fishin' huh? I'm headed for work.

[John Bridge]

Well, I had to pull out before I read any of this. Short day, though.

I think some of you guys are missing the boat with the long hours and 7-day weeks. Won't get you anywhere.

My typical week is 5-1/2 days. (Saturday mornings I do estimates.) The workday is seldom more than 7 hours on the job and answering a few phone calls when I get home.

It's not getting me anywher, but like I said . . . .

[Simple]

No kidding John,

I work 5 days a week, hell no to weekends and no more than 7 hrs a day between phones, computer and on the job.

[John Bridge]

Great to have another slacker on here. I was really outnumbered.

And I lied. I hardly ever work 7 hours on the job. :D

Oh, and I've got a spell checker. I won't install it, though, until after the next move, which will occur within the next couple weeks.

[cx]

OK, you admitted slackers, tell us how you work less than 40 hours a week total time and make a living.

What's the other source of income?

Curious minds want to know (Me and RobZ's).

Y'all makin' that up, ain't ya?

[cx]

And, John:

I know you say ol' Snowbird Bob don't have no opinions, but axe him about his Teamsters kissin' up to ol' Shrub by invitin' him to their big Labor Day gathering.

They don't learn nothin' in the last 20 years?

tehe

Labor Day be over directly, not to worry.

[Rob Z]

John

When you retire, how about that helper of yours relocates up to VA? Now that I am helperless, I'm on the look out again.

Just one Q: will he adhere to a dress code? No heavy metal t shirts on the job. How's the hair length nowadays?

Rob

[JC]

I'll help ya Rob how far are you from Downtown D.C? My sister has been wanting me to come down and stay there anyways.

Im waiting on a couple fairly good sized jobs right now but might not get off the ground till the end of the month.

[John Bridge]

Somebody here keeps confusing my brother Bob (tile setter) with Jim's dad (teamster).

Rob's wife, Christina, supports him while he dabbles in mud.

And I didn't say you could make a living doing what I do.

There is no other source of income, though, except the massive royalty checks I receive twice a year.

And an occasional consulting fee.

Here's a clue. I helps to be one of the few surviving mud men in a metro area of 4 million.

Albert (helper of 12 years) still wears crappy shirts and has hair halfway down to his butt. I don't let him wear holey jeens, though. And no shorts or cut-offs.

[Rob Z]

OK OK John

I'm willing to relax my standards. Albert can wear the heavy metal tshirts, but has to tighten up the haircut. It doesn't have to be high and tight the way mine usually is, but shorter than the rock and roll length in the book.

Think he'll be tempted by the cost of living raise he can get going from Houston to DC?

Trivia Q: Is it your kitchen in the book that you are doing the countertop in? I noticed one shot looks like the same floor tile we saw in the pic with your table.

JC I live real close to Dulles airport, about 30 minutes from DC. Where does your sister live?

And yes, sweet Christina makes more money than I do, enabling me to buy toys and do what I like rather than work for the Man in some stinking office.

Rob

[JC]

Not sure actually I never had a chance to see her new three bedroom apartment, but I do know it is downtown somewhere within walking distance to the WWF (world wildlife foundation).

[Rob Z]

JC

Are you sure that's not the World Wrestling Federation?

[JC]

I know why would they want to copy the real WWF? Maybe there trying to sound like tough guys in the fight to save the environment.
Hey you know what her new husband has worked as a tile helper when they lived in San Francisco(they just recently moved to DC. Mayb he would be interested coz last I knew he was trying to find work in D.C. He is from England so he might be illegal but he does have short hair and dresses good.
I'll give ya a number if you want it. But I was serious about coming down myself ya know.

[cx]

Yeah, I did it again, John. Maybe give you some idea why I have so much trouble working my computer?

And how about this no-cut-offs policy? Remember, if tee shirts and cut-offs are outlawed, only outlaws will wear tee shirts and cut-offs. And I'll have to go to work neckid!

[John Bridge]

This thread is gettin' tough. Guess I gotta start takin' notes.

Rob,

Yeah, it's my kitchen. Was getting real close to submission date and nobody wanted their countertops done. Tore mine out and tiled them over a three-day weekend. Fun. Did you notice the Busch beer in a couple of the photos?

Albert might move to D.C. if they have a trailer park with subsidized rent. He won't cut his hair. His wife thinks he looks cool.

JC,

So your sis married this English guy who's in the WWF? I wouldn't be a smart ass with him if I were you. Let's have Dereck run a check on him. If he ain't from London he doesn't count, eh?

Kelly,

When we're not working on "castles," we are working in people's homes. It's always air-conditioned, and people shouldn't have to look at your banty legs if they don't want to. Besides that, my legs haven't seen the sun in so many years it would be blinding.



[Edited by John Bridge on 09-04-2001 at 07:13 PM]

[Rob Z]

John

I did notice the Busch in the photos. It was at that time that I thought "Hey, I might be able to learn something from this guy".

We don't have many trailer parks up here in NoVA. Snooty zoning people have made sure of that. We do have plenty of low-rent housing for him to choose from.

Does Albert ever visit this forum? Hello Albert!

[John Bridge]

Don't worry. Albert keeps talking about getting a computer -- to play GAMES on.

[Rob Z]

John

Has it ever occurred to you that you have SIX sons?

[cx]

They are more commonly referred to as "bird legs", thank you very much.

Just don't think I could ever go back to working in long pants.

So we're disparraging Albert for getting a computer "to play GAMES on"? Certainly not like us at all! We're strictly serious bidness when WE get on the computer, by gawd. Well, I am at least.

And I agree, this thread is gettin' tough to keep up with. Prolly the Boss Moderator could restart it under another name, now that Labor Day is past and all.

And ain't this the thread where royalties were discussed? I seen over to the shallow end where RobZ use my ever so famous sign-off. Don't he hafta pay royalties now, John?

[Rob Z]

Kelly

I think I only used it once, and I did give credit where it was due.

It IS a good signature. Wish I'da thought of it.

[John Bridge]

The Sixth Son. This could be a title for a novel! If I could only write a novel, that is.

Just exactly what did Rob plagiarize? We'll string him up (if we can find a big enough tree). I hate plagiarism, just like I hate guys who go around lifting pictures off other people's web sites. By God, they ought to be run out of town. Somebody get a rope!

[cx]

NO, NO, don't hang him, you bois-de-arc skull! Dead guys can't pay no royalties.

Wasn't really plagiarism,'cause he did atribute. But don't he hafta pay anyway. You the one knows about that stuff, John. Make him toke up (you leave that one alone, JC).

[Bud Cline]

I trust everyone had a fine Labor Day holiday?

Seems that this Labor Day thread has changed to a chat room meandering its way into never never land so lets move on what ya say?