Found this interesting.....

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I frequent various message boards etc on the net,and 1 of em is a hot-tub message board.

Well,someone was askin questions etc regarding tubs,and his handle he uses is "tileman" . I told him about this site,and gave him the limk/URL.

He said he checked out this site,but didn't want to participate as (they way I understood it) he doesn't care for the DIYer.

I personally have no prob helpin out people. I don't feel the DIYer is a threat to my livelyhood,as they are miniscal as far as the amount of tile/stone work that goes on daily.

Plus,a professional gets paid to do their job,in a timely fashion.

Here's the URL...

http://www.whatsthebest-hottub.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1160833546

Here's what he posted in that thread...
tileman

Junior Member





Posts: 55
Gender:
Re: Have the mods thought of adding a gallery page
Reply #8 - Today at 10:36am Your welcome. I went to that site and I have to say I'm not a big fan of diyers trying to do my job. I take alot of pride in what I do and it really bothers me when I walk in to someones house and see a half-ass tile job. I'm in the Local 18 here in St.Louis and work for a small family owned shop. The family is me ,dad, and uncles. I'm also not a big fan of the floorlayers local as they try to do all flooring and not focus on mastering one. I'm sure there are many quality setters on that site but I don't want to contribute to the non-certified,trained, diyers there. I feel so strong about this because too many times have I had to fix someone elses f*#@ ups. The thing I always tell people is that I don't go into you place of empolyment and try to do your job so leave constuction to the proffessionals.


Everyone is welcome to their opinion,and I,respect his and others.

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[opiethetileman]

Richie you out there making feinds again are ya's. Tell A real tile guy sets tile in one hand and holds a 50 cal int he other see if wants to come back now

[Boilermaker 98]

His reason for not wantign to help DIYer's is the about the same reason I hate hiring contractors to do somethign in my house. Whether it's tile (thanks for helping me build my shower correctly), wood flooring (wife just wanted to hire it done since I am slammed at work, wouldn't let her though, cause I couldn't stand it if it wasn't done to my liking), plumbing (because I am the son of a plumber and know more about plumbing that 80% of the plumbers where I live).

I could go on and on about not wanting a contractor doing a whole lot in my house for fear that I would have to fix his F ups anyway. Why pay someone to screw it up.

Now before anyone kills me, not all contractors are bad, there are a few good ones out there that do excellent work and do it right, but where I live, most are concerned with getting 50-75% of their money up front which burns my ass because I am in construction myself(industrial piping contractor) and we don't get a lick of money until we submit our first pay request (whenever the first billing period comes around) and then have to wait for 30-90 days to get paid. If you are in the contracting business, I think you should have a good enough line of credit to be able to carry payroll and materials for at least 30 days. I do not have a problem paying a contractor who does what he says he is going to do every 2 weeks and either putting a deposit down or paying out right for any special or non-stock material.

End of rant.

Good day.

[cx]

I think your new friend missed the whole point of our site, Rich. John Bridge started Tile Your World for the express purpose of helping the DIYer do the tile installation correctly so nobody needs go in there and re-do it for them. Indeed, as you have seen, many of our DIYers come here for advice so they can fix the terrible job done or started by a "professional." I think "tileman" may really have a substantially different reason for not wanting to participate in a forum like this.

Brian:

I doubt anyone is gonna take offense to your comments. The proliferation of incompetent "contractors" of one type or another seems to be epidemic and the well educated DIYer can frequently do a superior job to what he's likely to find in his local market. Sad but true. And now with Homer and Lowes getting even more heavily into the installation business, It's only likely to get worse. How a homeowner would actually find a really good tile mechanic today is beyond me.

And it's the same with finding sub-contractors of all stripes in my business, which is why I want to do remodel rather than new construction - so I can do most of it myself.

About the 50% up front money? Most of the tile guys are dealing with different customers every couple days or weeks and I can understand their wanting some money up front. As with finding good contractors, it's probably getting more difficult to find good customers today, too. I've never had a problem, but a large percentage of my customers are repeat business, some for the fourth or fifth project, some on houses I built years ago, and others are referrals from such customers. They all get a bill at the end of the job or once a month or so on bigger projects. But if I worked for strangers alla time I'm sure I'd hafta start getting some up-front payment, too. Different strokes.

I grew up under the banner of, "If you want something done right, do it yourself." And I still think it a good plan for people who are capable and willing to do their own work.

But there are a lotta times I advise my customers just like "tileguy" does. Frequently they want to do part of a project themselves to save some dinero. Sometimes I let them do that, but more often I only need to remind them that I can't do what they do for a living, and they charge more than do I, and that they can best save money by earning it at their profession and giving part of it to me for my services. Once the math is done, and considering I'm gonna be on the jobsite already, most of the time I end up doing the work for them. But again, these are usually people I know and who know me.

I'm not even sure I could make it out there in the real construction world anymore. :)

[opiethetileman]

Yeah I hear ya about doing it yourself so you dont fix the fock ups. I am working in a house rite now. guy use to be a very high cotton head for Motown and paramount records. I have been there for 3 months now and have about 2 more to go. I got my first check about 2 weeks ago havent asked for a dollar till then. I have had to hire some other contractors out there and eveyone so far i have had to go behind and change diapers. She had skylights installed the guys knock one of the main trunks of the a/c off and just went about thier way. The plumber came out had to fix his crap had pipes running on the outside of a building I had hole drilled in the floor so he go thru the wall and make it look pretty. The guys who del;ivered my hardwood floor out there 2200 sq feet worth. Just dumped it in the drive and drove off. The guys who she bought the stove from just left it in the middle of the kitchen. i could go on myself. I agree with ya. that is why i went and got my GC tag to cut out the crap. i am going to build 3 houses next year and flip and sell them. I have been doing my own gig now for 11 years and have never asked for a buck up front to I have something to show for it. This is why we cant get real money for our work cause someone else used vasiline to much out there.

[Splinter]

And it's the same with finding sub-contractors of all stripes in my business, which is why I want to do remodel rather than new construction - so I can do most of it myself.

Ditto. :D

[Scooter]

I've been the bulding trades off and on since 1964. I've black jacked foundations, been a carpenter's helper, ran my own crew, was a roofer, built bridges, back to tract homes, tried to make furniture for a living, remodled homes, flipped homes, was a real estate broker for a while.

I just am a people person. I like people. I like helping people. I have a vast library of knowledge, and don't mind sharing it.

To use a 60's word, its good Karma....

Peace and Love,

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I feel the same way Scooter. I try to help,if possible. My wife is more of the "people person lol. I'm what you would call a "worker-bee".

I don't feel the DIYer is a threat to my livelyhood,so in that regards,I'll pass on any useful tips to the DIYer and even the professionals.

I feel were all here to learn,and share ideas etc.

[jjwq8]

As a DIYer who aced the incompetence course suma cum laude I will always get someone else in to do the stuff I will inevitably screw up. Working with my hands I have two left feet.

But.........I know building and construction, and I know contract and law.........and woe betide anyone who crosses me:D