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kbeau
10-15-2006, 08:37 AM
Hello, my name is Ken and this is my first post, but I've been all over this forum looking for answers. I'm sure the answers to my questions are already in here, but I'd like some opinions on my particular installation. Any help is much appreciated.

I have zero tile experience, but lots of time. I've remodeled most of the basement and have been working on the bathroom for about a month now. I made it a little bigger and added a shower, but my first question is about the bathroom floor outside of the shower.

Most of the bathroom is raised off the concrete slab by about 7 1/2 ": 2x4's laid flat with 2X6 joists and 1/2 inch plywood on top. The joists are spaced no more than 16" oc and are about 5' long. The bathroom is 5'X9' mostly, but is narrower near the door. All the wood appears to be solid. From the top of the plywood to the sheetrock (greenboard) ceiling is only 81 1/2 inches. Making the height problem worse, the far side of the room (5' x 26") is raised an additional 2 inches. This was to give the toilet the height required to drain directly. This last 26 inches is joisted perpendicular to the rest of the bathroom with 2x4's, also 16"oc, with various support underneath.

Most of the floor, as I've described it, was pre-existing. The walls had been 3/8" plywood, but I took that out, added some studding, and installed the greenboard. (I don't intend to tile the walls, except in the shower, where I'll use CBU.) I also added some floor joists for the added shower and adjacent area.

So now I'm thinking that I should have done something to the subfloor before I finished the walls. I had convinced myself that it was ok because I didn't want to reduce the ceiling height any more. The floor seems solid, except one small area where a 4' wide sheet of plywood meets a 1' wide piece perpendicular to the 2x6 joists. I can probably get some support under this spot.

Maybe useless information, but the bathroom had vinyl tile which I removed. I also removed the mastic.

My question, and I will probably have more questions about the shower later, is: What must I do to the floor to have a reasonable chance of not having problems with tile? The tile I had in mind is 13x13 and is the same tile that is installed in the room that leads into the bathroom. It doesn't have to be that tile, but I have extra tile and it would tie the two rooms together a bit aesthetically.

Another option, of course, is to not tile the bathroom floor. Having a lower ceiling doesn't especially bother me, but I want to do what's right for the house.

Thanks to anyone who takes the time to consider my plight. Don't be afraid to hurt my feelings, but be gentle.

Thanks, Ken

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John Bridge
10-15-2006, 10:46 AM
Hi Ken, Welcome aboard. :)

1/2 in. ply won't do it. You could either take that up and switch to 3/4 or add another layer of 1/2. You will still need either 1/4 in. backer board or a membrane over the top of the second layer of plywood.

Third option is to use a vinyl tile instead of ceramic. That's hipocracy around here, but it's a basement shower, and vinyl would solve your problem. :)

kbeau
10-15-2006, 11:41 AM
Thanks for your reply. I guess I was expecting that. I'd prefer not to tear up what's there, so I'll add the 1/2" ply and backer board.

My eyes were glazing over about 1 a.m. as I read a long and tortured thread about adding a plywood layer. Michael Byrne's book, which I've been using, makes it sound cut and dry--lay it perpendicular to first, overlap joints, leave some space, glue it and screw it, hitting the joists wherever possible. But I recall that this wasn't the established way, that it should not be glued and not screwed to the joists. Am I confusing different ways to achieve different ends? How should I really do it?

I'd certainly give up 3/4" to avoid vinyl tile.

Thanks for your quick reply.

Ken

cx
10-15-2006, 02:26 PM
Welcome Ken. :)

Yes, there is confusion about adding subflooring layers. In your case, you're not starting with anything that could be called a suitable subfloor, so you're not intending to add an "underlayment" layer, you're trying to make a suitable first layer. Adding another layer of half-inch ply, as JB recommended can do that. It would be much better if you could glue it to the first, but with the residue from the tile you removed on there, gluing isn't gonna work well.

One thing about which there is no confusion is that all subfloor layers must be installed perpendicular to the joists.

In your situation, I would advise that you fit your new pieces with the seams overlapping the lower ones, then pre-drill them for fasteners 4" apart along the edges and 6" in the field. Attach them to the bottom layer with screws about 1 1/4" long and pay no attention to the joist location. The pre-drilling will allow you to pull the two layers together and provide about the best subfloor you're gonna get without starting over. You could do the same thing using thicker plywood, too, and I would certainly recommend that if you're willing.

And don't invite no real tall peoples to use your new shower. :D

My opinion; worth price charged.

kbeau
10-15-2006, 03:19 PM
John & CX,

I'm glad I asked these questions and truly appreciate the good advice. I had it in my head that the second plywood would be perpendicular to the first, but I understand now that all layers are perpendicular to the joists. And I appreciate the drilling and screwing information; I would have screwed it up, no pun intended.

Obviously, it's impossible to get all the old mastic off, but I used a heat gun and scraper first, then followed with adhesive remover. It's pretty clean, so I may use some construction adhesive. And I may go with thicker plywood, I don't know.

Actually, tall people, men anyway, may have a harder time using the toilet than the shower. As I said, the toilet area is two inches higher than the rest of the room, but, since the shower is entirely new I took pains to give it as much headroom as possible. I managed to fit the p-trap within a 2x6 structure that sits directly on the floor (pressure treated). Had to grind the concrete a little. And I'm going to attach the ceiling directly to the joists, whereas the rest of the bathroom is furred out. Right now, it's a step down into the shower, but when it's done it will probably be a small step up. I used 3/4" plywood for a subfloor in the shower over 2X6's 13"oc. I've seen where two 5/8" sheets are considered minimum, but I've also seen 3/4" as the minimum. Unless it's totally no good, don't even bother telling me because I'll cry if I have to redo the drain.

I have some questions about the shower, but I'll finish the rest of the bathroom first.

Thanks so much...

Ken

jadnashua
10-15-2006, 04:11 PM
If you use glue, you need to ensure you get 100% coverage, with no gaps in a thick substance (i.e., stuff you might get out of a tube on a caulking gun). The usualy recommendation is something like TiteBond II, and use something to spread it so you get a nice full coverage layer. Lay the ply down before the stuff skins over and start screwing it down from either the middle out or one end to the other.

kbeau
10-15-2006, 05:32 PM
Thanks Jim...will do. Ken

John Bridge
10-15-2006, 05:55 PM
The glue is fine if it's evenly spread, but pre-drilling the screw holes, as CX suggest, is going to do a lot in pulling the two layers tight together. I can't resist saying to drill through only the top layer. ;)

kbeau
10-15-2006, 06:54 PM
John,

Your concern is not entirely misplaced. A few short weeks ago I would not have known to drill only the top sheet. Somewhere I saw this, don't remember where. I think it's great that you guys take nothing for granted. And it's really great that you're willing to take the time to help. I do appreciate it.

Ken

cx
10-15-2006, 07:03 PM
I can't resist saying to drill through only the top layer. When I learn to express myownself more clearly, Mr. Bridge, I'll prolly write a decent tile book and the likes of you will be outa bidness. :D

But that's the kinda thing prompts my very good friend here in Boerne, in telling people why I'm piss-poor at teaching anything, to say, "He thinks everybody should already know everything." :rolleyes:

kbeau
10-15-2006, 07:38 PM
Obviously I'm not getting any work done today, but I am getting some good direction. Here's another question.

CX was helping "Kenny" back in July & August and Kenny asked a couple times if he should put a horizontal backer stud in the shower at the joints of each row of cbu. I didn't see where anyone ever answered him, so I have to ask. I know I can't go wrong if I do, but if it's a waste of time I won't. Studs are in no case more than 16" oc and mostly they're less than that.

Come to think of it, I've never heard the term 'horizontal backer stud', but you know what I mean, right?

Ken

cx
10-15-2006, 07:46 PM
It depends upon the particular wallboard you elect to use, Ken. Some manufacturers require blocking behind all joints, others do not.

nashkato
10-15-2006, 08:15 PM
The glue is fine if it's evenly spread, but pre-drilling the screw holes, as CX suggest, is going to do a lot in pulling the two layers tight together. I can't resist saying to drill through only the top layer.
Since I'm about to do something very similar myself, I have to ask. Why predrill the holes? I have a 1/2" subfloor and I am adding a 3/4" ply underlayment before Ditra. I will not be using glue in between them and I will be using 1 1/4" ring-shank nails spaced about 6" apart throughout.

Thanks, Derek

cx
10-15-2006, 08:37 PM
Even more important with the thicker ply on top, Derek, if you want to take any advantage of the half-inch subflooring. If you elect to nail, though, it doesn't matter - you will get no benefit from that bottom layer anyway.

The only way you can make that thin plywood do you any good as a first layer is to pull it tight against the layer above while fastening. And maximum benefit will only come from gluing the layers then pulling them together thus.

You drive screws through a three-quarter-inch plywood into a half-inch plywood without pre-drilling the top board and you're just gonna "screw jack" those two layers apart most of the time. Even with a half-inch layer on top you're gonna get that on lots of the screws.

And if you drive nails in that situation, you can be sure that nowhere except maybe on top of the joists will the two layers actually be close to tight together.

You wanna make use of the half-inch layer you gotta pre-drill and screw. You wanna make best use, you use full-spread wood glue between'em, too, if they're clean enough. Full-spread of a construction adhesive could work, too, if done right, but not anything that says Subfloor on it - too viscous.

My opinion; worth price charged.

kbeau
10-15-2006, 08:46 PM
I really shouldn't be answering any questions here because I have absolutely no credentials, but the Mets are up by 8 runs and I lost interest in the game.

For what it's worth, I think the idea is that the screw threads should be free to float through the top sheet so that the head can pull it down tight to the bottom sheet. The size of the drilled hole is somewhat critical--I thought I'd try to find out what it should be before I asked another question.

I really hope someone who knows what they're talking about gives you an answer too.

Ken

cx
10-15-2006, 08:53 PM
Yeah, that's the thinking, Ken. Your pre-drill should be of a size that makes the screw still hafta thread into the hole but such that it strips out before it will counter-sink the head on its own. Try that with a couple holes in the board before you pewt it down on the floor. You don't want the hole big enough for the screw to be wallerin' around in there.

My opinion; worth price charged.

kbeau
10-17-2006, 08:45 PM
I decided to forget the adhesive, but I went with the 3/4" plywood, predrilled and screwed as advised. Haven't finished, got waylaid a bit, but I have the biggest and hardest piece in. Haven't decided which underlayment to put down, but I think I should get back to the shower before I do that so I won't be walking on the underlayment all the time. BTW, should anyone care, a 1/8" drill bit seemed to be the best for predrilling the plywood using #7 screws.

OK..I learned in someone else's thread that I probably should not have closed in the top of the shower door opening. Traps steam at the ceiling. I think I'm going to leave it though. It's about 4 1/2 inches from what will be the tiled ceiling. The doorway is at a 45 degree angle with about 4 1/2 inches on each side of the doorway, on the outside, same at the top, and the curb is a little less because the shower floor, unfinished, is lower than the rest of the bathroom. I think I have a fairly good exhaust fan for the size of the room. I'll make sure I get a shower door that leaves space at top and bottom. From what I gather, this should be ok, if not ideal.

What I plan to do next:

1. I'm gonna put some blocking in where I'll have horizontal joints in the backer board, whether I need them or not.

2. Poly and cbu on the ceiling.

3. Gonna shim the studs 1/4" because I didn't notch the studs and I already installed 2x10 blocking.

4. I ordered some things from The Noble Company...mostly I wanted the CPE, but I also bought a pre-slope kit. It sounded good because I'm a little afraid of mortar because I never did it, even though I know I have to do it over the CPE. The lath looked scarey too, and I don't want to buy a roll of felt paper. The pre-slope thing seems like it will fit pretty nice, but it doesn't seem all that rugged. Anyone have any thoughts on it? Anyway, one way or another, I'll get a slope on the floor.

5. Put the CPE in. This scares me a little because I have trouble wrapping Christmas presents and this seems like it's even trickier. But I'll get through it. That will be done after it passes a water test.

6. 4 mil poly on the walls, as few staples as possible, down to an inch or 2 over the cpe.

7. CBU, haven't decided which one yet, follow mfr directions. No screws through the CPE.

8. Then the dreaded mortar. My HD doesn't carry anything called sand mix, so I think I'll just mix portland cement with sand and water. I also bought a curb from the Noble company (my mortarphobia again). Again, it looks like it should work, but I haven't seen any mention of Noble's products in this forum which makes me wonder if I should just stick to the tried and tested methods.

At that point, I guess I'm ready for tile. I guess I'd go back to the bathroom and put down 1/4" cbu and tile that floor, then tile the shower, which will be a whole 'nother adventure.

I've been referring to M. Byrnes' book, as well as a whole bunch of info here on your forum and basically know how to approach all of the above. My biggest concern is that I've just overlooked something through ignorance, as I did by not planning to leave the ceiling area more open.

Comments, suggestions welcomed. If not, I should be all set until I have to figure out how to install tile.

cx
10-17-2006, 10:15 PM
A small header over the doorway isn't a really big problem, Ken. It's when you get the ones that come down a foot or more that you have the most drying problems up there. No header at all is best, of course, but you'll be OK if you use your exhaust fan as you should.I'll make sure I get a shower door that leaves space at top and bottom.Well, top yes, but I don't think a fella wants a big gap in the bottom of his shower door. Otherwise he's gonna have a moisture problem onna floor outside, eh? :)

1. Good eye-dee.

2. No poly needed onna ceiling. Polly is used for a moisture barrier behind the walls to keep moisture outa the wall cavities. Whilst you will have some water vapor penetrating your ceiling, it's unlikely you'll have any real water up there. And the cavity above is likely large and well ventilated (if that's not the case, let's talk).

3. Is fine.

4. Anyone have any thoughts on it?Our friend Eric (e3) will have thoughts on it, and his thoughts will be that it is wonderful. That's because he's the Noble rep. :rolleyes: But Noble makes very good products, Ken. You'll not likely find any complaints on these forums about any aspect of their products aside from the cost, maybe.

But in the matter of any kinda ready-made pre-slope, I just don't see the allure. I've never used Noble's pre-slope kit, but I'm still betting you could do a mud pre-slope with the same learning curve, and you'd be a very large step ahead in experience when it comes time for the final mud bed. Metal lath is not scary so long as you wear gloves, and you don't need a roll of felt, you can just use some of the same poly that you must have for the walls. Saves dinero, too.

The Noble CPE has a very long history. If you buy your CPE from someone else, chances are you're getting Noble CPE anyway. :)

5. Not sure what you mean by putting in the CPE after doing the water test. You gotta install the membrane first, Ken. Really. That's what you're fixin' to test, eh?

6. At least two inches below the top of the liner. More is OK.

7. Yep. Pewt a few big dollops of thinset along the bottom of the bottom CBU panels to moosh against the backing down there. That'll make them real solid when you install your final mud.

8. See #4. I've never used Noble's curb, either, but, again, it's a good product. You wanna use a pre-made curb, theirs is fine. Follow directions.

On the mud bed, see #4 again. If you build a mud pre-slope for practice, you're way ahead when it comes time for the one that you're gonna hafta set tile on.

See if your Homer has Sand Topping mix, or Topping Mix or some such. They'll have something that's sand and cement, whatever it's called. Or just mixing your own is fine.

Mr. Byrne's book is fine, but I suggest you disregard the part where you glue the CPE to the pre-slope with roofing tar, and you don't need the black felt over the CPE, and you don't really need the reinforcing wire in the final mud bed. But if you chose to do any or all of those things (and do them correctly) it won't do any harm that I know of. But you can do harm with the reinforcing wire in the mud bed if you're not real careful.

You get more questions, we got more answers. You wait for somebody else to come along, some of'em might even be right. :gerg:

My opinion; worth price charged.

kbeau
10-17-2006, 10:49 PM
I thank you for your input. I'll definitely use your tips. I really was gonna install the CPE before the water test, I just worded that wrong. I would like to do the mortar pre-slope for the experience, but I already have the kit. I dunno. Cross that one when I get to it.

Thanks again...

maryland_warrior
10-18-2006, 02:38 PM
When I did my kitchen floor last year (with a lot of help from folks here :nod: ) noone ever said anything about gluing the extra 1/2 ply to the subfloor or predrilling holes. As I recall, CX gave me a lot of his worthless :D advice back then.

I'm getting ready to do my bath floor and I want to make sure that I don't repeat any mistakes(?) I might have made on the kitchen. The subfloor in my kitchen and bath consists of 1x8 planks set on a diagonal. I'm thinking that the gluing and predrilling advice in this thread is based on the fact that Ken was dealing with a ply to ply application but I got to ask: is gluing and predrilling necessary for my application" (1/2 ply screwed down to 1x8's)? (BTW: needless to say, Ditra goes on top ) Thanks much.

Rod

cx
10-18-2006, 04:43 PM
Advice this year same cost same value as last year, Rod. Sucha deal, eh? :D

The pre-drilling is most necessary when trying to attach to the very thin half-inch "subfloor?" some folks are starting with, 'specially if they try to screw down a thicker layer on top. Just doesn't work. The screw wants to just jack the bottom layer down and can never get any give in the top layer to actually pull the two together. With half-inch or three-eights over three-quarter, you don't have nearly the same problem.

In your case, you should be able to attach the half-inch ply to the boards without pre-drilling, but that depends a good deal upon the type of wood and condition of the boards. For sure you don't want to bother trying to glue to the board floor. Just ain't the same as laminating plywood sheets.

That said, I nearly always pre-drill anything that I want to pull together, be it subflooring layers, framing sisters, deck boards, whatever, especially on old work. That's just one of the reasons I'm so slow. :)

My opinion; worth price charged (but with special discount today only for the first ten visitors named Rod).

Now please find your own thread and axe your questions there. Or the price will go up substantially. :shades:

maryland_warrior
10-19-2006, 03:48 PM
Thanks CX! Consider me admonished - from now on I'm stickin to my own threads (mine are confusing enough why mess up someone else's perfectly good thread :eek: ). And I'm sorry I missed your special deal for "Rod's" yesterday as I had some more questions to ask and it looks like now I'm going to have to pay full price for that worthless advice of yours. :lol1:

cx
10-19-2006, 03:52 PM
Naaa, we'll give you another discount for really good Billy Shakespeare quote. :D

kbeau
10-26-2006, 07:03 AM
I cut the CPE yesterday and realized I had computed how high it had to go WRONG. When I shimmed out the studs in the shower I failed to consider that the height of my curb wasn't the finished height. I brought the shims down too low and put shims across the shower pan backer boards which are also too low. Then I cut my CPE too short. Then I realized the error of my ways.

If the shower curb (Noble preform) with the CPE under it plus the tile and thinset equals one inch then, instead of having a shower pan 3 inches above the finished curb height, it's only gonna be 2 inches. If the curb goes up more than an inch, the two inches gets smaller.

Another possible screw-up: Before I cut the CPE, I looked around to see which side was supposed to go up and which side down. Noble's instructions didn't say, Byrne's book didn't say, and I couldn't find it here, so I put the smoother side up, the side without the printing on it. Later, I saw a few pics here on the forum and they all had the printing facing up.

I don't know what the code says about having the shower pan going up only two inches. The code isn't so much my concern as whether or not it will be a problem.

My questions:

1. Is 3 inches really the MINIMUM that is advisable?
2. Is my CPE upside down? (It's not symmetrical, I can't just turn it over.) Does it matter?
3. I probably have enough CPE scrap to add a strip of CPE around the perimeter of what I've cut. I have NobleSeal 150. Would that be OK, or should I scrap the whole thing, assuming I have to redo my shims and get some more height?

Some days it's one step forward and two steps back. Should I be working instead of looking for someone to tell me it's OK????

cx
10-26-2006, 07:27 AM
1. The requirement is for the top of the liner to be three inches above the top of the rough curb, Ken. Sounds like you have that if I'm reading the question correctly.

And you did finish the corners at the top of the curb with pre-formed dam corners before installing the Noble curb?

2. The CPE don't care diddly about which side is up, so far as I know (always use PVC here). On some construction materials we like alla time to have the writin' on the side the inspector can see so he don't git confused as to which is the pan liner and which are the studs or somethin' like that when it's real complicated. :D

3. Yes, you should be working instead of pretending you need to be onna computer axin' questions.

My opinion; worth price charged.

kbeau
10-26-2006, 07:49 AM
CX,

I'm glad I didn't start working--you just saved me from going back three squares.

The Noble instructions say:
The upturn should be 3" above the finished dam or waterline as specified by required code.
My logic tells me that above the waterline is good, whether it's 2" or 3". I don't trust my own logic that much, but I trust your knowledge and experience, so I feel a whole lot better.

I didn't put the dam corners in because I didn't get that far, but I have them. Actually, I have one. I need two. I screwed up the order, but am hoping the local plumbing store carries them.

Appreciate your help and quick response.

cx
10-26-2006, 08:35 AM
Well, the shower pan liner is actually part of the plumbing and s'posta be installed per applicable plumbing code by an applicable plumber, but we all know how that works.

And the manufacturers of the pan liner and curb will be the governing word on the use of their products.

But if your liner turns up three inches above where the same liner goes over the rough curb you will meet the requirements as I was taught.

Those corners are real important. That's one of the first places we find damage in failed showers.

My opinion; worth price charged.

kbeau
10-27-2006, 12:32 PM
CPE is in. Doing a water test right now. Looks good. Was easier than I expected.

Plumbing store had some blue dam corners, but they weren't CPE and they didn't know if they would work with cpe and I didn't want them. So I ordered one from Noble, paying as much for shipping as the dam corner.

Using the one corner that I did remember to order, it looks like they'll fit fine on both corners BUT...I wonder if I worry too much sometimes.

Noble's dam corners are round. They cover the corner nicely, but they don't extend over the whole top of the rough curb. Now I'm wondering if I really need 4 corners instead of two. I would have to cut away some greenboard on the outside to put corners on the outside. Let me see if I can get a decent picture of this....

OK..there's water in the pan and the corner is just sitting there, but you should be able to see the situation. Think it's OK or do I need more?

John Bridge
10-27-2006, 03:30 PM
Hi Ken, :)

The requirement is above the rough curb, not the finished curb. Think of the logic in this: If you some how stop up the drain and flood the shower, water will come over the curb and out before it ever reaches even a quarter-inch above the curb. So if you have an inch above the finished curb you'll be fine. :)

'Course you might have severe water damage elsewhere in the house. :D

kbeau
10-28-2006, 05:27 AM
Thanks John & CX...I'm a believer that my upturn height is fine.

I guess I'm bumping my question from #28 (see picture there)...should the dam corners cover the entire joint at the side of the top of the curb? Do I need 4 corners?

Also, can the corners be a different material from the pan if I seal them together with NobleSeal 150?

cx
10-28-2006, 04:51 PM
Well, I like to cover a little more of the corner than that, Ken, but you've got the most important part sealed. You could lay another piece in each corner on the curb top and up the jamb a little before you install the corner if you want.

Look inna Liberry at JB's pan liner article (http://johnbridge.com/mortar_bed_shower_floor.htm) and you'll see what it should look like. If you're fixin' to have a shower door in the center of the opening it won't matter much at all, though.

My opinion; worth price charged.

kbeau
10-29-2006, 12:04 AM
Thanks, CX. Yeah, I saw those pics in the liberry. I think I'll do what you suggested. There will be a door.

kbeau
10-31-2006, 09:38 PM
I keep forgetting little details. I think I was smarter once, but can't really remember.

I put the cbu up (Durock) and I brought it down to within between 1/8 and 1/4 inch from the pan. Then I remembered, after I was all done, that there's a wicking issue and maybe I should have left more space.

As I understand it, the cbu's gonna get wet anyway, but it doesn't care. But to be safe, or safer, should I:

a) Try to remove some of the Durock from the bottom. I'll surely damage the pan if I do or

b) Try to squeeze some silicone or something (what?) into the little space (closer to 1/8") or

c) Not worry about it or

d) Something else I haven't thought of but please don't tell me to remove the cbu and cut it and put it back up. (I have thinset behind the bottom part.)


Thanx....

cx
10-31-2006, 09:54 PM
d.

The thinset on the bottom of the CBU is just acting as a spacer between the CBU and the pan liner, which is against your blocking. The CBU will come right outa there if you take out the screws.

An eighth-inch is really too close there. Quarter-inch should get you by if you made your pre-slope correctly, but more would be better.

Keep in mind that to have wicking there you must have standing water. You shouldn't have any standing water with a proper installation.

But it's really inexpensive to correct the situation now, rather than later, if you've really got it nearly right down on the liner.

My opinion; worth price charged.

kbeau
10-31-2006, 10:04 PM
Shoot...OK...thanks. Good thing I work cheap.

kbeau
11-02-2006, 03:38 PM
I took down the lower panels of CBU, cut 'em, put them back up. Glad I did, wasn't that hard. I received my second dam corner from Noble so I put it in and finished the cbu but I haven't taped yet. I guess I'll tape same time I do the tile. I have the Noble Pre-Form curb all cut and ready to go in. Here's my question...

I have greenboard meeting CBU at the outside corners of the shower opening. I plan to put tile around the outside of the opening, on the greenboard. Should I use a metal corner bead there or just tape? Should I cover it with thinset on the cbu side and with joint compound on the greenboard side? If it needs thinset, I'll do it same time that I put in the curb.

Thanks...

kbeau
11-04-2006, 11:42 PM
I was looking at the thread "Jay's Bathroom Remodel", especially post #54 (http://johnbridge.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=39744&page=4&pp=15), and went to check to see if my weep holes are working or if I had the same problem he had.

Well, the weep holes work fine, but I realized that the drain sits higher than the surrounding pan. I used Noble's preslope, so the height of the slope around the drain should be right. The drain was installed as tight as could be to the plywood sub-floor so it can't be too high. I looked at Jay's picher again and noticed that he had standing water around the drain too that was never gonna make it to the drain. Best I can figure, if any water does make its way into the mud base, some of it isn't gonna make it to the drain.

I'm also thinking that if I had done a mud preslope like CX told me I probably should, it would have come right to the top of the bottom drain piece instead of sitting under it like the Noble preslope does, but as far as I know, Jay did a mud preslope. I'm also wondering if the drain that Noble sells is different than the one I used, even though they never said anything about having to use a particular drain. What gives me hope is that Jay's setup seems to be the same as mine, with the water around it, and all the eagle eyes here never said it looked like a problem. But I can't help wondering if it's ok that the weep holes will never get all the water that might get down there.

I'm kinda bummed out over all the mistakes I've made and all the rework I've done, but I think I have a good installation to this point, thanks to CX mostly. I haven't put the mud base in yet, and I'm willing to make this thing right even if I have to rip out the cbu and the pan and the preslope. Is there a problem?

By the way, I'm not real concerned about it yet, and I realize it's a pretty dumb question, but I still don't know what I'm doing with those corners I asked about in my last post. :crap: Also, I ordered John's book yesterday, hoping that it will help me once I get to tiling. Too late for the prep work, but I am very thankful for all the help I've gotten here so far.

kbeau
11-05-2006, 06:29 PM
I was just trying to get some attention. :wave:

kbeau
11-06-2006, 08:55 AM
I guess I found the answer in another thread to my concern in my post #37. The answer was "a small pool of water isn't going to hurt anything". I had done what was done in this other thread--I added a round piece of CPE at the drain as in M Byrne's book. That is part of the reason why my pan is a little high at the drain. Actually, every picture I've seen of a drain, unless it's a drawing, shows the drain sitting higher than the surrounding liner, including what's in the Liberry. It still strikes me a little strange that ANY water would be allowed to remain in the pan.

I'm going to pick out a tile before I do the mud base so I know how thick the tile will be.

kbeau
11-06-2006, 03:49 PM
I ordered JB's book on Saturday and got it today, Monday. That's just damned good service, both from The Tile Store and USPS. I also found in the book a reasonable answer to the question I posted in #36 above on Thursday. I guess the moral of the story is, you always get better service if you're a paying customer. :dance: I love those lil smilie faces.

kbeau
11-12-2006, 10:33 PM
I'm (finally) ready to tile and have just a few questions before I buy the tile.

1) On the shower floor I'm using a 2x2 mosaic. I've seen some people say (M Byrne for one and I think most of the other books just say whatever he says, except JB) that you should use an epoxy thinset on any mosaic, and then the same thing for grout. I'm using versa-bond everywhere else. Will that be ok for the mosaic?

2) I have a Noble niche and am thinking of using quarter round around the outside corners of the niche (mitered at the corners; hoping I can pull that off) and then just surrounding it with the field tile. Does that sound like it will work? I can't get my hands on any quarter round until I place my order for everything.

3) There's a 2.25 inch step up to the toilet area. I asked this question on someone else's thread and a moderator put it in it's own thread, but this is really my thread, so I'm repeating it here. The question is (drum roll please): Can I/Should I back miter the horizontal and vertical tiles at the step area? I've been told "no" but I sort of said to those folks that the grout line would get stepped on. Now I think it won't get stepped on (much). JB's book talks about back mitering in this situation, giving a sunken living room as an example. Forget the Schulter profiles, I just don't like them. I THINK that the mitered edge would look better than bull nose...any thoughts on that?

4) The tile I'm going to get, if my wife doesn't change my mind, is glazed porcelain. I ordered the Folker TM75 and am eagerly awaiting it. Will I need a different blade than what it comes with? Will the blade it comes with wear fast with this tile?

5) The best price I have for the tile is with an inet company called FastFloors. Even with shipping costs. It's a Daltile tile. There's one local dealer I would consider using if buying from FastFloors isn't a good thing. Any thoughts on this?

I guess that's more than a few questions, but it's not a lot, is it? Appreciate any and all help and advice from anyone with knowledge or experience of which I have very little. Thanks.

Tim_4_Tile
11-13-2006, 07:46 AM
I've had good luck w/ Fastfloors. So far I've gotten a big order of tile (Crossville) and two hardwood flooring orders. I would use them again.

kbeau
11-13-2006, 07:54 AM
Tim, Thanks. Good to know. Ken