Caulk or grout Corners [Archive] - Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile

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Bigbobdallas
10-15-2006, 07:59 AM
I know I have ask this, but getting ready today to finish out bath tub enclosure. Do I grout the corners or chaulk corners of the 6x8 tiles.

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sgrandjean
10-15-2006, 08:03 AM
Bob,
I would caulk where the change of plane occurs.
Cheers.

John Bridge
10-15-2006, 10:32 AM
You trying to get me in trouble with the Tile Ranger? :D

I grout the corners but caulk along the top of the tub. I'm a loser, though, as far as the tile industry is concerned. Their way is to use caulking in the corners, too. :)

Davy
10-15-2006, 12:16 PM
Throw me in the losers bracket, I do it like John. :)

Bigbobdallas
10-15-2006, 12:52 PM
I guess if you pros are in the losing bracket count me in also , Thanks :dance: :deal:

Tile Ranger
10-15-2006, 07:22 PM
ANSI A108.1A-3.4.1, 1999:Movement joints are required over all construction, control, and expansion joints in the backing and where backing materials change or change direction including terminations of tilework where it abuts restraining or dissimilar surfaces.Movement joints shall be kept free and clear of all setting and grouting materials.
Mr. Bridge has been cautioned about dispensing erroneous advice on this subject a number of times in past. Mr. Stephens, by virtue of his history and participation on these forums should also know the correct industry standards.

Mr. Bigbob would be well advised to reconsider joining in this practice of clearly and blatantly disregarding industry standards.

Kenny
10-15-2006, 08:53 PM
"Setting materials", whazit? That wouldn't be thinset wouldf it??

cx
10-15-2006, 08:57 PM
That would be thinset, Kenny.

Hehehe, ol' JB don't never learn. I think the Ranger does a search ever day to see has his name been mentioned and comes in here to kick patooti. And nine times outa ten it's John Bridge hisownself on the wrong side of the issue. :D

Davy
10-15-2006, 09:01 PM
That's the last time I'm siding with JB (or admitting to it), he gets me in trouble everytime. :)

John Bridge
10-16-2006, 05:55 AM
Go ahead and jump ship, Davy, and see if I pay up on that chicken fried steak I owe you. ;)

Kenny
10-16-2006, 09:05 AM
"as far as the tile industry is concerned. Their way is to use caulking in the corners."
If the Tile police want caulk in the corners, would they arrest me for caulking the corner between backerboards before taping and thinsetting there as well (in adition to caulking instead of grouting)? In other words, caulk between the backerboards, then caulk between the tiles. CX, I know, you said They want a monolithic structure there, tying both walls together. But this does not compute. Thinset might eventually crack with movement. Caulk shouldn't.

Davy
10-16-2006, 09:28 AM
Kenny, I'd probably caulk my corners too if I used CBU but I wrap my corners with lath before mudding my walls and have very few problems. I have more problems up where the walls meet the ceiling, I havta caulk there sometimes.

JB, I ain't gonna let you pay up, the next one and the one after that is on me. Kelly's head ain't near as hard, after hearing I was paying, he's done made plans for a second helping. :)

bbcamp
10-16-2006, 09:46 AM
Backerboard corner joints are caulked in steam showers. It can't hurt in a regular shower.

Bigbobdallas
10-16-2006, 11:00 AM
I used CBU on the wallas also. So you are now saying Chaulk the Corners right. I also put The REd Stuff in corners, I thing you call it Regard for the corners of my CBU also, so what is the concensus say chaulk or grout now, I guess I am a little more confussed :bonk:

Bigbobdallas
10-16-2006, 12:02 PM
I just dont want to go home tonight and not do it correct, if you know what I mean. It has been long and hard on me doing this, between all the other stuff Ihave done around the house, including this also

smartmoose
10-16-2006, 01:05 PM
Not that I know much, but I grouted my corners as per JB's book. I used the schluter system though...not sure if that matters. I caulked where the tile met the floor though (near the curb of the shower).

So far (1+month) so good. If I start to see problems, I'll worry about it then.

J

cx
10-16-2006, 01:25 PM
CX, I know, you said They want a monolithic structure there, tying both walls together. But this does not compute. Thinset might eventually crack with movement. Caulk shouldn't.Hey, Kenny, if this stuff was easy they'd have women and ...........no, wait. :D

I looked where the ol' Ranger, bless his bitchy little heart, said and it wasn't there. But elsewhere in movement joint stuff it says:Openings for movement joints shall extend completely through tile work down to structural backing (membranes may remain continuous).Now, in a shower, the CBU walls would be considered structural backing in my estimation.

And you also get into manufacturer's instructions, which trump everybody, and they usually say to tape and fill all the joints.

So...........A man's gotta do what a man's gotta do. Unfortunately, that ain't always completely cut and dried in this bidness.

And for the record, as one who grew up in the industry with mud shower walls, I grout all my joints. :)

My opinion; worth price charged.

Bigbobdallas
10-16-2006, 01:40 PM
Then Grout it is and hey if anything ever moves youcan always go back and redo. Long lives the Grout :bow:

rayc325
10-16-2006, 02:04 PM
:crazy: I guess what they are saying is......caulk it with grout :lol1:

Kenny
10-16-2006, 02:38 PM
The Hardibacker website (James Hardie Building Products) installation instructions say to "fill corner gaps with silicone sealant (compatible with fiber cement underlayments)." But the instructions don't mention taping and thinsetting specifically in the corner, so I called Hardi Tech and Tech said, yes, put silicone sealant betwen the hardi boards in the corner, then tape and thinset the corner over the silicone.
Sounds like a plan.

Scooter
10-16-2006, 03:38 PM
Caulk Caulk Caulk!

Do not Grout!

John makes his showers and tub surrounds out of mud, which is a monolithic slab, not three separate planes.

Bigbobdallas
10-17-2006, 10:40 AM
Ok if you read all this it could make it very confusing. Last night I did all the flat surfaces and did nothing to the corners of the tub or in the niches. First Let me tell you pros earn your money. I did a no no at least for me. My wife said Ishould have done say one of the three walls, grout I mean and then wiped it down. Dah I tried to get all the grout on all three including the niches and Dang it was a job to get it all off. Do most of you all just do a small sectin and then do more and doa little at a time. So I guess again I really dont know if Ishould go with the grout or not it seems to bea difficult one or the other. Help Please :smash: I am going wacky if you know what i mean. I could not have made it this far without you guys though, so once again what is majority say to do chaulk or grout the corners??? Sorry to be a bothersome, also just FYI it was a brick pattern seems would have been easier just plan and also nitches

Bigbobdallas
10-17-2006, 11:53 AM
How long should the grout dry once I get it al cleaned up before I can seal the grout. Also The sealer that custom makes is it ok touse or any suggestions please.

cx
10-17-2006, 12:13 PM
Well, depends upon what's in those Custom bottles, Bob. Custom just bought AquaMix, but I doubt it's AquaMix you're seein' on the shelf, yet. What's the product name on what you're lookin' at?

Your grout wants to cure/dry for at least seven days before sealing. Many/most sealer manufacturers will tell you a minimum of three days, some less. But they all really want you to wait seven days. They can't tell you that for fear that you'll buy somebody else's sealer. Somebody else who is also afraid you'll buy somebody else's sealer if they don't say three days, too. :rolleyes:

I have heard of some sealers that you allegedly can use almost immediately after grouting. Apparently quite different from everything I'm familiar with. Don't know the story on those, but we've got some people hereabouts who do.

My opinion; worth price charged.

Trask
10-17-2006, 01:08 PM
well If it's in someone else's house I caulk all plane changes..(afraid of that Tile Ranger too.)

Except the bottoms of my showers. I usually grout them so moisture can weep through.

And I know most all the rules but I prefer to break them in my own affairs. I grout my corners and anything else I can. The exception being real movement joints..like floors at the wall perimiter ect.

In showers I like to see the crack in the corner.If the shower is done correctly, mud or not, it has not real effect on the performance/waterproofing. Italked to an old Italian guy at Surfaces a few years back and he said his customers would feel "cheated" if there wasn't eventually a cracked line of grout in the shower. That's the way they feel it should look...and are apologetic to friends veiwing the new shower until it looks right...like it's been there a while :tongue: I like the way those European guys think. :)

Trask
10-17-2006, 01:15 PM
Mr. Salvo of Miracle Sealants told me "off the record" that you could use their sealers the next day (after grouting). But the reality is all the variables may make that generally bad advice. So he said they also want you to play it safe and wait a couple days . I know a few concrete guys that use 511 on there green concrete driveways as soon as it's firm enough to walk on. They use this to slow the cure down in the summer instead of the usual sprinkler and plastic cover. They swear it makes a better slab. I doubt the sealer companies would complain if everyone got onto this idea :D