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ddodson
10-12-2006, 10:30 PM
:eek: I am in the middle of re-modeling a bathroom and have constructed a tub deck that will also serve as a shower bench. The shower floor is a 3X3 pan and the shower walls, tub deck and verticle sides to the tub deck and bench have been tile with 3X6 subway tiles. The tile on the top of the tub deck/bench and bench face (verticle) was laid on top of duroc which is on top of a membrane. The tile installers did NOT slope the horizontal surface of the bench towards the drain; it is actually sloping a bit away from the drain towards the tub. (The shower and tub "butt" against each other.) This issue was identified today when the crew was onsite to measure for the glass shower surround that will separate the shower and the tub. What should I do? I am hoping the tile does not need to be removed. What options do I have? What will happen if I proceed "as is". The tub deck and shower bench are the same height and one continuous surface. Please help.

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JTG
10-12-2006, 10:52 PM
Get a squeege to remove the water that will be standing against the glass after each shower.
Good Luck
JTG

Mike2
10-12-2006, 10:56 PM
dodson, recognizing that tile and grout alone are not waterproof, what is the likelihood that water will pool up and/or run off to a place where it's definitely not wanted?

I suppose you could jack up one side of the house. :D

cx
10-12-2006, 11:07 PM
Welcome, ddodson. How 'bout a first name for us to use? :)The tile on the top of the tub deck/bench and bench face (verticle) was laid on top of duroc which is on top of a membrane.I'm a bit concerned with that. Do you know just how Durock was installed over the membrane? Do you know what kind of membrane it was installed over?

In fact, the more you can tell us about all the construction of this shower the better we'll be able to advise you on a proper approach to a solution to your problem.

And if you got any pichers of the construction, that would help, too. We like pichers. :)

My opinion; worth price charged.

ddodson
10-13-2006, 08:13 AM
Hello, my name is Dan. The membrane is 40 mil PVC. There appears to be mortar between the duroc and membrane and I believe the duroc was also screwed into the membrane/frame beneath. Here are some pictures. A glass shower panel will divide the shower and tub. The bench area is actually sloped about 1/8" towards the tub.

cx
10-13-2006, 08:45 AM
I wouldn't accept that installation if I were paying the bills, Dan.

The positive slope to the drain should have been provided under the waterproofing membrane and the membrane should not have been compromised with any fastener penetrations. Water will penetrate the grout joints in the tile installation and then the fastener penetrations in the membrane and eventually rot out the seat and then..........

The seat slope really should have been incorporated into the framing, but it could have been done on top of that. But it must be under the waterproofing so the waterproofing is sloped toward the drain.

Tile man should certainly have known this. He should certainly know he can't nail or screw through the membrane in a location like that.

So. Who was in charge of what, here? Were you the GC and hired a tile man? Or was there a GC involved in the remodeling?

My opinion; worth price charged.

ddodson
10-13-2006, 09:51 AM
I am the homeowner/GC. To put the slope under the membrane means ripping everything out (obviously) and I would prefer not to do that if I have another option. The tile guy wants to remove the bench tile and grind down the duroc to create a slope. Is that even worth bothering with or should I plan to squeegee the bench for the rest of it's/my life? Any other suggestions are greatly appreciated. Thanks for your help.

Also, the tile guy may not have screwed through the membrane - I can't tell. I hope not...how should the duroc have been attached to avoid penetrating the membrane?

I'm planning to install a rain shower head which will reduce the amount of water hitting and sitting on this bench. Does that reduce the severity of this mistake?

cx
10-13-2006, 10:58 AM
Also, the tile guy may not have screwed through the membrane - I can't tell. I hope not...how should the duroc have been attached to avoid penetrating the membrane?That's the problem, Dan, there is no effective way to attach the CBU to the framing without fasteners that penetrate the liner. And I have serious questions about how he installed the liner in all the corners and up the wall above the seat.

You can either use a liner like you have and use metal lath (un-fastened, only bent to shape) and mud, or you eliminate the liner there and use a waterproofing membrane over the CBU in those areas. The same methods should have been used all around the tub deck, too.

Even if you remove the tile and grind down the CBU (poor option), the liner, which is the only waterproofing for the area, is still sloped the wrong direction and still compromised with fasteners. Adding a sloped layer of mud over the existing CBU would still leave you with the same problem.

Any kind of serious repair of that area is gonna require the removal of more than just the tile on the top of the bench.

My opinon; worth price charged.

Iggy
10-13-2006, 08:15 PM
CX, What if he applied several layers of Redguard after grinding down a slope on the CBU? Would this provide an adequate moisture barrier to direct the water away from the problems you have pointed out? I know this may not be the best fix...but could it work?

Mike

cx
10-13-2006, 09:02 PM
If he only removes the tile on the surface of the bench, Mike, he can't waterproof up the wall to keep the water from going under the topical layer. Not sure just waterproofing the bench surface will solve much. Slow it down, maybe, but maybe not a whole lot, even. And what moisture does get in there will have no chance at all to evaporate through the tile layer - all gotta go down wherever it can find a hole.

And I really suspect he has similar problems on the front and sides of the bench. too. Not as severe on those veritcal surfaces, but if there are holes, water will find'em. You see it alla time at the curb/wall joints when the liner's been cut and not patched or even just where fasteners have been poked through the top of the curb, like to install shower door frames and such.

My opinion; worth price charged.

Iggy
10-14-2006, 01:13 AM
Your right...I didn't consider the vertical walls and the sides of the bench. And once any water finds a way into the CBU, with no evaporation, it will just continue to absorb into the CBU....sorta like an oreo cookie and milk. :cry:

Mike

madmax
10-14-2006, 01:32 PM
Ditch the bench and move the glass partition to the very edge of the deck. Your problems will be solved. If the water isn't getting to the deck then it doesn't need to be waterproofed.

If you want the bench then tear out the whole top of the deck, the shower side wall at the deck and a foot up the wall at the deck bench area, and a foot in on the back wall.

ddodson
04-12-2008, 05:57 AM
I don't think that I ever responded with the resolution to this...the bench was torn out and re-installed. I'm really writing after all of this time just to thank everyone that chipped in with really helpful advice. Thank you.

John Bridge
04-12-2008, 07:24 AM
Thanks, for getting back to us, Dan. Glad it all worked out. :)