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d~b
10-10-2006, 10:57 AM
Hi everyone...

I am new to this forum so bare with me please...

I am going to put ceramic tile on my long list of projects.

I have already torn up the Vinyl flooring and 1/4 board that was under it...now

First question can I use 1/4 in hardi board and roofing nails or should I use coded screws?

Second... my Kitchen is ~ 17 ft long and about 6ft wide do i need an expansion joint?

The floor has already 2 layers of plywood on it and the floor joists are 16 on center.

Thank you,

db

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bbcamp
10-10-2006, 11:37 AM
Assuming your joists are OK for ceramic tile (check with deflecto tool), then 1/4" backerboard set in thinset and secured with either backerboard screws or hot dipped galvanized roofing nails is acceptable. Don't forget to tape and mud the joints as you tile.

Unless you floor sees a lot of direct sunlight, you need only to leave a 1/4" gap at the walls and against the cabinets or other fixed obstructions.

d~b
10-10-2006, 01:09 PM
Thinset????...is this a necessity in laying the hardi board? The reason I ask this is the last GC didnít use it in my entrance area.

Thanks again for the reply

db

JTG
10-10-2006, 01:19 PM
db
YES thinset is required under Hardi backer. Premium Plus at HD is a fine mortar for use in this application.
Good Luck
JTG

d~b
10-10-2006, 01:31 PM
Thank you JTG...you saved my kitchen floor...I wonder why the other GC didnt use any..hmm

peace

db

d~b
10-11-2006, 04:03 PM
BTW my name is Doug...and this will be my second tile job...when laying out the field on an S shaped room do I find the middle of the longest part or the widest part? Let me explain...my kitchen is a galley style at one end it has an eating area and at the other end flows into the living room. At this point it also goes right into an entrance area the goes into the garage. So the total area that I am tiling would kind of be like an S.

1). How would you start your tiles in a scenario like this?

thanks

db

d~b
10-12-2006, 08:02 AM
How important is this? Is there any easy way to level a existing floor without tearing up the sub-floor?

Thanks

Doug

carotene
10-12-2006, 08:26 AM
doug,

not a pro but you can search this forum for "SLC" or "Leveling". Also, check out the "Liberry" to get started. SLC is self-leveling concrete which can be applied to many flooring types. There are so many posts on this forum about this topic, with a little research, i'll bet you can answer most of your own questions.

bill

prashster
10-12-2006, 08:55 AM
Depends.

If it's a wet application and you have a floor drain or yr in a shower, gotta slope to drain. There are reqmts for that slope.

If dry, then more important than slope is FLAT and seamless.
Slope will affect how your floor/wall xitions look. If yr painting walls then a little outa level isn't going to matter.
If yr tiling walls, then you'd probably want those tiles to run plumb and level, so an outalevel floor will affect how that first row of tiles looks.

SLC will do the trick. Two caveats before committing: 1) unless the perimeter is level and happens to be the highest part, y'll have to block and fill. 2) consider how you'll deal with transition probs this creates where your room joins another room with an existing (presumably) out of level floor.

If you only have some peaks and valleys but the floor is reasonably flat, then you might be able to sand humps and just slc or thinset the valleys (if theyre not too thick)

d~b
10-12-2006, 09:05 AM
Thanks for the replies...the floor is a dry app...ie kitchen and the it isn't too bad as way of hills and valleys just has a slight hill in the middle of the floor...in fact you cant really tell with the vinyl floor up now...

doug

prashster
10-12-2006, 09:10 AM
Yeah, but the vinyl is forgiving to contours. Rigid tile is not. Small tiles are. Large tiles not so much. Wait for pros to chime in with what's acceptable for the size tile yr planning to use.

d~b
10-12-2006, 10:38 AM
Oh btw i am using 12" X 12" tiles..i'll snap some pics of the project.

here are the latest pictures.

thanks

doug

bbcamp
10-12-2006, 10:59 AM
DB, the standard for floor flatness is 1/4" out-of-plane over a 10 foot span. To measure this, place a 10 foot straight edge on the floor and measure the gap between it and the floor. Move the straight edge around the room and at different angles and mark where you have more than 1/4" gap and where you have less than 1/8" gap. This makes a topographic map of the floor. Tell us what you find, and we'll help determine the best solution.

cx
10-12-2006, 11:09 AM
Welcome, Doug. :)

My first comment was gonna be to invite your to check you floor structure to see if it was suitable for tile before you started leveling, but I see that was covered in your first thread. I've combined that thread here. Please keep all your questions on this thread. Bookmark it so it doesn't get lost. They never get too old to bring back to the top of the queue with a new post. :)

Check for flat like Injineer Bob says. Tile don't care diddly about level, only flat.

bbcamp
10-12-2006, 11:12 AM
I forgot to add, do your flatness measuring after you set the backerboard. Sometimes, the backerboard solves the problem, other times it makes it worse.

d~b
10-12-2006, 12:08 PM
Well I ran a 12ft 1 X 6 over the area and the worst case is a 1/8 valley. I will put down the hardi board and then do that again.

How would you guys lay out the tile in this L -shaped room? I was told by a GC to find the center of the room and work your way out from there.

Thanks

Dave Taylor
10-12-2006, 12:22 PM
The best tile layout advice for any room comes from Mr. B his-own-self in his book Tile Your World.... autographed copies available here:
http://www.tileyourworld.com/catalog/index.php?manufacturers_id=12 .

If you order now... by the time you get your CBU laid the book will be at your door.... and that's autographed. Cost me thousands and a trip to Orlando this early spring to gits' my own copy autographed :---)

Cop-out I know but..... that's the easiest thing I kin say about layout.

d~b
10-12-2006, 12:31 PM
Thanks Dave for the heads up on that book...btw how many pages is it?

Oh a side note anyone, can you tile over laminate counter tops if you sand them down first?

thanks

Dave Taylor
10-12-2006, 01:07 PM
The total book (Tile Your World) is about 180 - 190 pages - give or take.... and you will notice lots of familiar names in authorship of different parts.

The primary tile layout section is about 4 pages.... and about an additional 15 pages or so are devoted to other aspects of the subject.

While you kin rough up laminate and tile over it... the problem is the counter support structure usually not being strong enough to support ceramic and/or the use of MDF (medium density fiberboard) under the laminate. It has great compressive strength but swells soooo... bad when damp that folks here-a-bouts will say it is an absolute no-no to tile over.

Hope this helps

d~b
10-13-2006, 01:17 PM
Ok I forgot to ask but how are Interceramic tiles?

thanks

John Bridge
10-13-2006, 07:53 PM
Hi Doug, :)

TYW is 232 pages with an additional 24 pages of color pictures.

Interceramic tiles are adequate. :)

d~b
10-16-2006, 02:21 PM
Ok I have one more question...I have a entrance area just off of the kitchen that must of been added on after the house was built...this entrance isnít part of the foundation of the house but is built well enough for tile...

Question seeing this isnít part of the original house can I still continue my kitchen tile into this area without putting an expansion joint in?

Thanks

cx
10-16-2006, 02:45 PM
Short answer: No.

Give out with more details of the construction and that could change to maybe, but I wouldn't count on it.

My opinion; worth price charged.

d~b
10-16-2006, 03:04 PM
Here you go CX and others...So CX your saying i should put an expansion joint in between the two rooms?

First Picture is the area in question...actually this area flows into the garage...

The rest are just updated pictures of the flooring...

thanks,

bbcamp
10-16-2006, 03:13 PM
An expansion (movement) joint is requried any time there is a change in support structure under the tiled area. You have 2 different framing systems under that floor; these areas will move differently. Your tile must accomodate this, either with a soft joint or a crack.

cx
10-16-2006, 03:24 PM
If you're talking about that little area across that doorway, just do it, Doug. A movement joint there is not gonna be much of an aesthetic issue at all. And they look a lot better than cracks. :)

If you're gonna go with a gray grout of some kind, I bet you can get a urethane caulk off the shelf to use there, too.

My opinion; worth price charged.

d~b
10-16-2006, 03:29 PM
Yes that is what i thought...and gray is what we are going with.

Thanks gentlemen for your insight...

d~b
10-23-2006, 03:42 PM
Ok where can i get Mallard Green cauk at a reasonable price...

thanks,

cx
10-23-2006, 10:15 PM
Mmmm, Doug? Malard Green is not a gray color. :D

d~b
10-24-2006, 08:25 AM
Nope we went with a Mallard Green grout...btw...should the grout be different tones while it sets up...background...last night i grouted and this morning some area's of the grout is a different shade. Could this just be that it just hasnt set up all the way yet?

bbcamp
10-24-2006, 09:35 AM
Probably so. Give it some more time.

d~b
10-24-2006, 09:58 AM
Should I be misting this grout?

cx
10-24-2006, 10:16 AM
Hope that all evens out, Doug. That's a nice lookin' floor. :)

I think all Portland cement products should be damp-cured. I would mist it if it were mine.

My opinion; worth price charged.

d~b
10-24-2006, 10:35 AM
CX should I scrub the grout with water and vinegar?

d~b
10-24-2006, 03:59 PM
Bump

d~b
10-25-2006, 12:09 PM
Ok that didnt help...actually made it worst misting it..:(is there anyway of evening the shade out?

cx
10-25-2006, 11:21 PM
I'm not the right guy for this problem, Doug. If the misting made it look worse it's only temporary, though. When it dries it'll either be like it was or will have gotten better. If it's not better, we need some of the big-time cleaning/sealing guys to have a look.

If you don't get any action here, we'll move the question over to the Cleaning, etc., forum.

d~b
10-26-2006, 08:00 AM
Thanks CX...its been almost 72hrs now and no change...what do you pro's think i should do to even this out?

thanks,

sgrandjean
10-26-2006, 02:42 PM
Doug,
How much of the grout looks different (i.e. not the way you'd like)? If it's a small portion, I'd say you could use a grout saw to remove the grout in the affected area and mix a small batch of your Gray/Mallard Green :yeah: grout and pop it in those areas again.

Cheers.

d~b
11-02-2006, 03:10 PM
Ok question...

Do you replace the door casing when you tile a floor?

I know this sounds stupid but instead of replacing them i cut the tile around and put colored caulk in the space. Now the wife thinks it looks like sh*t so she wants me to rip out all of the door casings and replace the tile...

What do you guys think?

thanks,

prashster
11-03-2006, 07:02 AM
IMHO, the better way to do (have done) this is to cut the bottom of the casing (and the jamb, if yr tiling through the doorway) flush with a jamb saw or finish/hand saw held at as FLAT an angle as poss. Then you tile under the casing.

cx
11-03-2006, 08:16 AM
Good tile mechanics will do as Shawn suggests, Doug. Cut the bottom of all jambs and casings to fit your tile under them.

Hell, your wife coulda tole you that. :D

My opinion; worth price charged.