Please respond (and have fun) with this statement

[weed30]

I clipped this from another bulletin board:

"First, sealing the grout before the whole project had the time to properly cure (at least two weeks) was a mistake. Ceramic tiles don't allow any vapor transmission, therefore, the still moist setting material can only dry via grout lines, providing that they are not sealed.
Second, sealing grout is a totally useless exercise. There is no way, NO WAY that water, no matter how many gallons of it you pour onto the tiles can fid its way behind the tiles through the grout lines."

[Sponsored Links]

[John Bridge]

Folks, do not try this at home. :D

I'm gonna move this one to the mud box.

[KW]

Hey Weed,

Get that guy to post over here!
I think we could have some real fun, "Slicing and Dicing" this guy!:D

He/she is consistent.......couldn't find one true statement!:D

[John Bridge]

Kurt,

If you'd like more of the same, hop over to Fred Hueston's board at NTC. http://www.ntc-stone.com/main1.htm

[weed30]

Oh I would dearly love to have him post over here. I responded to his statement and he responded saying that it's "my privelege" to disagree with him, but there's "no way" water can get through the grout. I came here for some hard facts that I can rebut with.

[Bud Cline]

Well I had to go and leave my mark also, I just couldn't stand it. :)

[John Bridge]

Yep, me too. I think the last time I got insulted over there it was because of Wendy. Trouble maker. :D

[weed30]

I think the last time I got insulted over there it was because of Wendy

But I'm so worth it! :D

And don't deny that little testosterone rush you got from replying...

[Bud Cline]

So who is Bertonini or whoever that is?

[weed30]

He is a self described expert on granite and other stones. He is a complete *ss - only on that board to promote his products. He regularly treats posters as complete idiots and slams fabricators as uneducated dolts. He even told one poster to "take your granite countertops and go to h*ll"! I have posted a few questions there and the other guys are ok - I don't know why they allow this condescending pompous *ss to continue.

[rj]

Did anyone notice he has the same initals as MB ?

i thank it has sumpin ta do wit dat numeroligy stuff,
whadda tink ? ;)

[Sonnie Layne]

Some people just can't help making everything a personal issue. I don't like "giving in" to creeps like that, I just don't have time for the grunts. Had a "fellow" painter a few years back while I was contributing to a painting forum that started posting replies as Sunny Lame. Moderators wouldn't bring an end to it, so I don't play anymore... except for here. Everyone's safe here.

Unless you disagree with Bud :D:D

[Bud Cline]

You got that right Sonnie.

Hey somebody go and invite Bertolibini or whoever he is to join in here and try to learn something. He could use any name he wants and we wouldn't even know he was here.

Obviously he has never been here!!!:)

[Sonnie Layne]

IP's are logged here, there ain't know hidin' from the MAN, hehe

[Bud Cline]

Oh hell that's too much work, he ain't that important.:D

Besides if he's on dial-up his IP changes with each sign on anyway doesn't it?

?:D?

[Sonnie Layne]

Uhhhh,,,,

no. not necessarily.

[rj]

Bud
I believe you are correct about the IP address on a dial up connection,
it is random but the proxy server is probably logged as well.

There are two types of DSL or Cable connection, but most in this area are "dynamic" connections meaning the ISP cannot gurantee a constant IP address. It might not change for months but one day they throw a few switches and your address changes, and you wont even notice.you are "connected" to the server by software across a card.

The other type of connection is "static" meaning never changing. The address stays the same. this is an important
issue if you need to build a VPN ( virtual private network )
the static address is usually through a phone line be it;
DSL, ISDN , or a T-1 line.

[Bud Cline]

That's the only technical expalnation I've ever had on the topic, thanks. Sorta makes sense with my limited knowledge, sorta.:)

OK OK...I have no idea what your saying but thanks, someday I'll take a course. Yea right!!!:D

[JC]

"Ranges"

Any givin ISP has certain IP number ranges that there clients use. True the clients IP may change(dynamic) but it will still stay within that ISP givin static ranges. The ISP assigns the dynamic IP to the customers.If you pay your ISP extra money they can assign you a static IP for a dial-up.

By tracking the ranges you can pretty safely assume it is the same guy.

[Bud Cline]

Makes sense.

[Bud Cline]

Seems that I have received an email from The Great Bertolibini.

I think it was addressed to John and I was copied actually,:( yes still a second class citizen after all these years.

Anyway Bertolibini claims forty years in the business far exceeding my participation for sure and also claims that the vinyl pans of today are simply a secondary measure to capture any water that might somehow find its way thru the tile and grout due to damage.

Bertolilibini stands firm that the grout won't leak no way, NO WAY. :D

Hey John did you get yours? Email that is.:)

[Bud Cline]

OK I gotta get out of here for a while so here's a brief excerpt of Bertolininini's email. See what you think.:)


Maurizio Bertoli: "As far as the vinyl lining is concerned, it is indeed an extra precaution
just in case of installation (grout or caulk) failure. It happens all too
many times (after all, as we all know, there are lots of "Michelangelos" out
there!), and you don't want water leaking into the room underneath your
bathroom, do you! But that doesn't mean that water is supposed to go under
the tiles. I mean, why do you need bumpers, seat belts and air bags in a
car? If everybody would drive properly there wouldn't be one single
accident!"
Ciao and good luck everybody,
Maurizio Bertoli


http://www.mbstone.com

MB Stone - Education before any sale!


COMMENTS?

[John Bridge]

Here's the entire email, in case anyone want's to read it.


Dear Everybody (and particularly you, John, ol' chap! You remember me, don't
you!):
It looks like I'm the only one thinking differently. Well, what can I tell
you, maybe I am wrong after all. But beyond all the theoretic erudition
shelled out by my dear Brit-Canadian friend, what I do know is that in over
40 years of field experience, every time I had the opportunity to notice
water behind tiles (marble, granite or what-have-you), bar none, there's was
alway, ALL THE TIME, either grout missing, or cracked, of caulking missing,
or the tiles had been set "butt-joint". In over 40 years of field
experience, I never saw water behind the tiles in a shower stall if the
grout and caulk were in place. EVER. Even if the shower stall were 15 years
old or better.
Now, how about before the "craze of the sealers", which exploded in the past
10 years? No tiles in the shower stall? Please!! In my house I have a shower
stall in a spare bedroom which I never cared to remodeled, and it's the one
that I personally use every single day, because I turned that spare room
into my personal Jim. It also the shower that my to suns used every single
day for some 12 years, before they got married and got the heck out of the
house! It was there before I bought the house, and I would estimate that
it's at least 30 years old. I had to replace the caulking once 8 or 9 years
ago, but that is it. Never sealed that grout, unless they had sealed it 30
years ago (yeah, right, fat chance!). I guarantee you, there's not a drop of
water under those tiles!
As far as the vinyl lining is concerned, it is indeed an extra precaution
just in case of installation (grout or caulk) failure. It happens all too
many times (after all, as we all know, there are lots of "Michelangelos" out
there!), and you don't want water leaking into the room underneath your
bathroom, do you! But that doesn't mean that water is supposed to go under
the tiles. I mean, why do you need bumpers, seat belts and air bags in a
car? If everybody would drive properly there wouldn't be one single
accident!
Ciao and good luck everybody,
Maurizio Bertoli


http://www.mbstone.com

MB Stone - Education before any sale!

[Bud Cline]

John have you noticed "our" email is also now posted at the Heuston site?

http://www.ntc-stone.com/phorum2/read.php?f=2&i=3402&t=3389#reply_3402

[Bud Cline]

http://mbstone.com/images/about_us/dad_headshot.GIF


Since 1995, Maurizio Bertoli has been offering consultation and training services at local, national and international level. Thank to his in-depth knowledge of the subject and his uncanny ability to diagnose and solve problems, as well as his unorthodox and creative approach (still within strict parameters of sound and proven techniques) to stone refinishing and preservation, he counts, among numerous customers, MARPOL MARBLE, Toronto, ON; ASTS FLOORING, Toronto, ON; AM-PM BUILDING MAINTENANCE, Seoul, S. Korea; MILVIN INTERNATIONAL, Calcutta, India; WALT DISNEY WORLD, Lake Buena Vista, FL; THE BANK OF CHINA, Beijing, China; BERMUDATECH, Hamilton, Bermuda, just to cite a few. He also actively volunteers his expertise to websites such as http://www.ntc-stone.com, “Ask Our Experts”; http://www.stoneindustry.com, “Shop Talk #5 and #6; http://www.findstone.com, “Expert Advice”. On the last two sites he also runs a “radical” column under the title of “ROCKING THE BOAT”, in which every month he posts a new controversial editorial. His outspoken and sparkling writing style make him a unique character in the stone industry with numerous followers.

In April of 1999 he co-founded MB Stone Restoration & Supply, Inc. on which he now serves as Vice-President and Technical Director. His expertise spans over four decades and his professional achievements are best represented in the following timeline:

[1992 - 1995] Mr. Bertoli began a round of seminars on the subject of stone specification and maintenance both at local and national levels. Among the most notable: StonExpo '93, Orlando Fl. 1993; CHFI-FM Radio Interview, Toronto Canada 1994; Home Improvement Show, Washington DC. 1995. Technical articles carrying his signature and published by all major tile & stone industry magazines have grown too numerous to list. In addition he has produced a series of educational literature on the subject of stone definition, specification, installation and maintenance.

[1991] Invited to speak on the subject of stone specification, installation and maintenance at the annual meeting of the Monmouth and Ocean County (NJ) Chapter of A.I.A. He was asked to return for the 1997 conference.

[1990] Expending his expertise and private studies on petrography and chemistry as applied to natural stone, he was featured in a two page editorial in the Asbury Park Press (the second largest newspaper in New Jersey) and developed a complete line of Marble maintenance products.

[1984] He founded "Maurizio Bertoli", a sole proprietorship, specializing in "grind-in-place" installation of marble floors, restoration and re-polishing of marble and granite installations.

[1979 - 1981] Sold his Italian based flooring company and became involved in new business endeavors which prompted him to move to New Jersey with his wife Laura and two sons, Giorgio and Giulio.

[1974 - 1978] Expanded his professional horizons by increasing his company's local reach and installing high-end marble floors all over Italy, Switzerland and southern France.

[1971 - 1973] While continuing to run his marble flooring company, Mr. Bertoli undertook private studies in the area of Petrography (a branch of Geology focusing on rocks) and chemistry as applied to Marble and natural stone.

[1969] Completed his formal education, acquiring a BA equivalent degree in Accounting and Marketing.

[1968] Purchased the marble flooring company he had been working for upon the passing of the former owner.

[1963 - 1967] Worked as a marble floor setter (exclusively with the "grind-in-place" method) while completing his university education in Parma, Italy.)

[1959 - 1962] At the age of 16 he began his current career path by working in a marble fabrication facility in Parma, Italy as a summer job.


:)



Your welcome!

[flatfloor]

I think he needs a proof reader: ;)

because I turned that spare room
into my personal Jim. It also the shower that my to suns used every single

[Cami A]

I had a personal Jim once...just a summer thing, though...:D


So...does this mean that a container of grout and tile will hold water? ;)

[Ron]

Wow!Un molto grande storia,signore!Impressive history.Che peccato(what a pity)...that he thinks mortar is waterproof. :D

[Ron]

Cami :D

[John Bridge]

Well, I went over there again at Bud's prompting to see what email he was talking about. Had to run my mouth again over there. I just can't believe those guys actually believe what they are saying. I am amazed at the ignorance.

I ain't goin' back. It's too hard on me. ;)

Also, I'm taking Fred's link off my site. He can do the same with mine, I guess. I won't be responsible for sending people over to that mess.

[Rob Z]

Jim, Bud, etc.

If this guy is correct, then why do I keep finding (funky) water on the pan liner on each shower I tear out? You guys have many more years of experience than I do, so please set me straight. :confused:

Do you think I am being unfair to my customers by charging them for a pan liner? :rolleyes:

[Bri]

Come on Rob...you know, that I know, that you make your pan liners out of mastic!;)

[Rob Z]

BUSTED! :mad:

[tileguytodd]

LMAO And Bri,i dont know if Rob Z knows what Mastic is ;)

Will this guy next say that you can set tile with Mastic and the Grout will keep it from getting wet??
And he caulked once nine or ten years ago.Never seen caulk last that long that didnt look like hell.(wouldnt want to use his Jim Shower :D )

[rj]

It's a shame that ignorance is pervasive and contagious. :(

[Bud Cline]

OK now, in Maurio's defense I have to remind everyone that the guy is more than likely a transplant so you can't expect a transplanted tileguy (and stone) to gots no good english. There are plenty of us natives making asses of ourselves everyday on these boards so I'll give him that.

I'm sure everyone here is aware that most all our "stuff" comes from the TCA's (Tile Council of America) Handbook For Ceramic Tile Installation and ANSI (American National Standard Specifications For Ceramic Tile). And after that it's just raw experience.

Where does Maurio's guidance come from? The guy is not solely responsible for inventing all his own stuff, or is he.

In all his years in the business seems the one thing and certainly not the least importatnt thing he hasn't leared is humility.

We all are insignificant in our own little ways at times and it seems Maurio has surpassed us all with his comments.

One is never too old to learn about his trade.

[Sonnie Layne]

Seems some of this may be inordinate and excessive. We're right, he's wrong, but one thing we as members on this site pride ourselves on is our ability to get along even when we disagree.

Now...I've a question. In Mr Bertoli's resume/history a method of grinding in plase was mentioned. I think I've an idea as to what that entails, but would someone enlighten me as to the process and what kind of equipment is utilized?

[gpzrider]

so, if what Mr. Bertoli says is true; how come we have to keep rebuilding these showers/tubs that these other guys keep building 'wrong'? Gee, go figure! What an idiot...

[Sonnie Layne]

I've never met the good gentleman from Parma.

Thus, I couldn't comment on whether or not idiocy is a part of his pscychological make-up

[Rob Z]

Sonnie

"Now...I've a question. In Mr Bertoli's resume/history a method of grinding in plase was mentioned. I think I've an idea as to what that entails, but would someone enlighten me as to the process and what kind of equipment is utilized?"

I learned about this from Fred Hueston when I attended his stone fabrication school in FLA. Apparently, stone in Europe is set with little regard for lippage, because large grinding machines and polishers are brought in after the material is set, and the entire floor is ground/polished down to a perfectly flat, mirror-like finish. Fred had a room in his offices that was done this way, and the floor was perfect. As you might imagine, the process is time consuming and, as Todd would say :) , quite spendy.

[John Bridge]

Yes, let's please not start calling people names. That's what turns people off on other sites.

:)

[flatfloor]

Grumble-mumble-grunt!

[Sonnie Layne]

Thanks Rob, must be some helluva machine, and a guy with big arms to handle it ;)

Hey, and to remind everyone, if it weren't for Parma, we wouldn't have Parmasean, imagine pasta without it!!!

[kemguru]

Just had to dig this up:D

[Brian Briggs]

As many of you are aware, I am a contributor on the site in question. There was a statement made about all of the false info given on that site and I must fully disagree (atleats when it comes to the fabrication and restoration aspect, because I do not know enough about setting floors to debunk anyones theories). Maurizio is cranky from time to time but it keeps it humorous.

[Brian Briggs]

I just looked for the thread on the other website and could not find it, what was the date ( I always like a good debate).

[John Bridge]

Don't know the date, Brian. I scratched Fred's site off the list. We just could not reason with Maurazio on this issue or any other. He's right, and that's it. ;)

[Brian Briggs]

He definately is set in his ways, but we are not all bad over there.

[Sonnie Layne]

I've not had time to visit the other site, but Brian, you're certainly welcome to this site. I think we all understand that not everyone is right all the time, except me, Rob and Cami :D:D:D:D

That is to say, we're the only ones that don't realize that someone can be right all the time ;) We still cook best, tho'.

And that's kinda the attitude that drives the mud box.

Me, I'm finally gettin' into this Shania Twain CD. Took me a couple of listens to get past the grade-school lyrics to realize that it's really fun stuff to listen to. Just don't listen to the words and you'll find it's really extremely cool. As a musician, she's got a good band and arranger. As a lyricist, she needs only me (boy, do I get tired of hearing that). I kept tryin to tell David A Coe the same thing, but everytime I did, he'd just spit on the floor and say somethin' like "If that ain't country, I'll kiss your A**" Go figure... :)

[sooze]

I have one thing to thank Maurizio for...he is such an a$$ he forced me to look for help on other sites, that is how I found johnbridge.com. He responded rudely to my question (claimed my tile would warp and told me to hire an installer, that my DH and I could not possibly do it ourselves!) Even though the "warping" issue was cleared up by another expert (might have even been Brian,) several of the other "experts" were also quite rude to me, more than once. Other posters here on John's website have had bad experiences with Mr. Bertoli as well.

I really love this site, and I am glad that I found it. My DH and I were able to do a great job and we saved many hundreds of dollars in the process, and that is directly related to my experience with John's website and the awesome advice I received here. This site is SO informative, so friendly and downright hilarious at times.

Mr. Bertoli is now posting regularly on Gardenweb, and I am finding myself enjoying that site less and less. Mr. Bertoli continues to be quite rude and has recently sent me malevolent e-mail in response to my comments about his "phorum." (I sent the poster here instead.) I have to say, if Maurizio shows up on this forum offering his "special" responses (and hawking his products!) I'll have to turn in my JohnBridge.Com membership card.

Those are just my thoughts,
Sue

[flatfloor]

Ve haf vays uf dealing vit zat. http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung/waffen/violent-smiley-010.gif

[kdzgon]

Originally posted by Sonnie Layne
I've not had time to visit the other site, but Brian, you're certainly welcome to this site. I think we all understand that not everyone is right all the time, except me, Rob and Cami :D:D:D:D


I think I may have been dissed (along with a few others ;) ).... hey, I'm even an INTJ - who is right more than us?? :D :D

[flatfloor]

Don't worrry bout it Laurie, Sonnie occasionally forgets his girlfriend's name. :eek:

[John Bridge]

Sue,

We won't let anything happen to jeopardize your good will. We'll call in the Tile Ranger on him and have him brought up on charges. :D

[Steven Hauser]

I think it is time to ressurect this thread.


I believe that I remember what occured. I have read posts from everyone.

I ressurect this thread because I happen to know that many of the people who respond at NTC would love to know and interact with you folks.

I also know that unchecked negative criticism undermines professionalism as does overactive generalizations.

With everyones permission I want to get the folks from NTC to this thread so that they may be educated about the difference between water absorption, cumlative vapor absorption, and possibly to apologize for snubbing other good professionals when they visit NTC.

I know for certain that I am here, I respond at NTC and I am a memeber of that "mess".

I object to that.

Steven:complain: :complain: :complain:

[tileguytodd]

Object away,its a Free country.At least till the Tile Ranger shows up and starts puttin people against the wall!! :D

Never happen,there's a new Jedi tiler lurkin around here somwhere ;)

[John Bridge]

Steven,

I mentioned on another thread here somewhere that I got a note from Fred Hueston concerning this. He's going to put a new disclaimer on his board, and I'm happy with that. I'll be putting Fred's link back up in our links area.

Possibly, the thing has to do with the difference between stone people and tile setters. We don't understand everything there is to know about stone, and most stone folks don't understand everything about tile setting. That's most, but not including Maurizio, of course. :D

We'll get beyond it. Hang around. ;)

[Brian Briggs]

This stone person doesn't really know much about setting tile. Thats why I like to come to sites like this to learn. My field is in stone fabrication, slab installation and a bit of restoration.

[Steven Hauser]

Thank you for the responses.

My objective has been achieved.

I wanted both websites to refer people back and forth in order to take advantage of all the wealth of knowledge.

Regards, Steven:D

[Joe Percoco]

Hey Steven & Brian,
Good to "see" you over here! Not that I frequent this site but I occasionally stop by. For those who are on this site regularly, I have been a contributor on NTC for some time but recently (within the last 6 months) have gotten burned out with Maurizio's "energetic" attitude. He is quite knowledgable and often times is quite personable, but there is enough daily BS with employees and customers to deal with that I don't need it from an internet site that is there to help people.

For you regulars, I am entering my 30th year in this trade. I started as an apprentice in 1973, though I started working for my father who was in this trade, at a VERY young age. I moved to Colorado in 1979 to get away from the family business, and ended up doing the same thing here. Though my shop is somewhat small in size (try to limit it to 15 employees) I am still in the field nearly every day. We have a full fabrication facility complete with automatic machines and CNC milling machine. All installs for showers are still done in mud . . . period. I feel if a client can afford to have a marble shower installed they can afford to have it installed right. My parents shop was full service and employed both union tilesetters and union floorlayers. I was able to learn from the best of both areas. At 9 years old I was helping install marble window sills (the bread and butter at the time).

I could definitely contribute and answer a lot of questions regarding mud work, tile work, stone installation and fabrication, ground in place flooring (which we do a fair amount of) and related issues. Both Steven and Brian are quite knowledgable also and though I have not had the pleasure to meet them in person, would be a asset to this site.

Well, enough for now - need to get to a jobsite and install a one piece tub deck (in mud of course).
Joe Percoco

[Steven Hauser]

You da man Joe,

:bow: :bow:

I always miss it when you aren't around, come to think of it I'm not always around either.


Thanks Steven:D

[Brian Briggs]

I was wondering if that is why you dropped out of site for a while. Good to see ya around again.

[John Bridge]

Glad to have you, Joe. :)

We need another mud man. There aren't many of us left. ;)

[ncstoneman]

Well i can unserstand what you guys mean i visit fred's forum everyday and have disagreed alot with what this man has said. but he is entitled to his opinion however wrong it may beat times. but on alot of occasions he does hit the target right pon the bullseye. I have learned bad mouthing or trying to counter point correct him is a waste of time also.Personally i weed through the garbage and propoganda alot. His refrence on bio to grind in place method i can tell you is the best but most time consuming and expensive method for stone not tile installations it is very similiar to how terazzo is ground upon pouring. I probably would have never found this board if it wasn't for this debate though and hope to come and contribute here also though i have vastly different views to maruizio and sometimes fred himself. My bio is simple i have been in the stone restoration business for 16 yrs and have some of the most unique ideas to achieve the final results from spending 12 hours a day for those 16 yrs in the field not reading a book.

[flatfloor]

Hi Joe, welcome!

If you ever want to mud a wall with SLC (self leveling cement) I'm your guy, got all the tricks. :D

[Steven Hauser]

Jim,

Share, share, share.

Steven:bow:

[doitright]

Hello everyone :)

Just visiting from Freds phorum. :confused: I try not to take anyones comments personally, even though occasionally I want to :bang: . Someone earlier mentioned TCA and ANSI. Unfortunately the stone world doesn't seem to have a common set of guidelines. For me, a succesfull natural stone tile installation must utilize guidelines established by TCA, and field experience. I've spoken with TCA on some standards that I disagree with, and found my method of installation isn't wrong :D . I strongly encourage each of us to share our knowledge and experiences, without bashing :( ! It's great to have fun! The best way for me would to be to share those nightmare's with our fellow professionals. Using CPE isn't a bad idea, is it people? :bonk: The icons say it all! Looking forward to continuing my education.

[John Bridge]

I have recieved the following letter from Maurizio Bertoli. I don't intend to respond to his technical claims, but on the idea of reconciliation I say yes. I never intended a war, and I don't want to wage one. I'm extremely happy that we are attracting a few stone professionals. There is a lot we can all learn here.

And so I apologize for anything I might have said of a personal nature toward Maurizio. I honestly don't remember calling anyone names. It's not my style. In any case, I'm sorry it's come to this, and I'll do what I can to rectify the situation.

I do sincerely hope that Maurizio will feel free to visit our boards. I can guarantee that if we have nothing else around here, we enjoy a very high degree of freedom of speech. ;)

C'mon, Maurizio. I'll tone it down if you will. :)

What follows is from Marizio:

Dear John:
I wanted you to know that I just posted the following open letter to you
on Fred's Phorum.

Dear John Bridge:
My dear friend and fellow tradesman Steven Hauser recently brought to
our attention (the participants to the Phorum) a thread you posted in
your "Mud room" on November 15, last year, where I noticed a whole bunch
of people having a lot of fun bashing me and my character. Well, what
can I tell you, as the saying goes: "Live by sword, die by the sword!"
After all, I do bash people and institutions myself all the time! The
difference, however, is that my bashing always stems from practices and
/ or general misconceptions that I feel need rectifying, not empty
exercises. In other words, I always try to make a point putting forth
issues that I feel are worth arguing over, and that are always open for
debate. And debates are good, all the time! They bring problems on the
table and, together, at times through a lot bickering, we always end up
finding common ground for possible solutions. And at the end of the day,
everybody is best friend! What I'm trying to say here, John, is that I
never bash people and institutions just for the pure heck of it, and
without any real cause.
I honestly fail to see your point. What did I ever done to you, other
that having called you "ol' chap" and "Brit-Canadian" by mistake? You
just so happen to have the same name of a dear acquaintance of mine,
born and raised in England and operating out of Toronto, ON a quite
successful stone restoration business (specializing in monuments and
historic buildings). The guy is a widely recognized authority in his
field. I just thought you were him. No matter what, I didn't call you an
ass, did I?! :-)
About that thread on the absorbency of grout - which is what generated
all this pointless mess - I made my point without calling anybody names,
and I insisted that even if I were theoretically wrong (which I could
have), in real life I never witnessed a single shower stall installation
failure (and I've seen my share of those, believe you me!) when the
installation was done properly and the grout and caulk were still in
place. Did you ever witness an installation failure under such
circumstances? And what about when all these much heralded impregnators
(including mine!) where not on the scene? Tile shower stalls have been
around for several generations, and grout never represented a problem.
Its lack did, all the time!
So, what's your problem and what's so wrong about what I said that you
got literally "flabbergasted" and felt compelled to feed me to the dogs?
I will not bother answering to all that empty smearing. For two good
reasons: 1. I never get involved in pointless and common bar brawls. 2.
Most importantly, because I am here to see if it's ever possible to
"undo the damage" - like Steven Hauser said. Since I have been the
"bashee", I believe that I am the most appropriate to try to smooth
things out.
John, the way I see it, both you and I have two major common
denominators: 1. An uncommon passion for our own trades. 2. The desire
and generosity to try to help consumers and fellows trade persons out
with their tile and stone questions and problems. As a third common
factor I am also convinced that you work as hard as I do to make a
living, and to improve yourself and your professional knowledge and
abilities. And the same things go - I'm sure - for all the professionals
who participate to Fred's Phorum and yours. As far as I am concerned,
among the few things I know for sure is that there is still a whole lot
that I don't know!
By trying to bash me so badly and for no particular reason, you have
created a situation of friction between these two wonderful sites that
conduces to nothing constructive and, most importantly, because of their
common goals, has no reason to exist. Sites like these - one
specializing more on the tile sector, and the other one on the stone
sector - should be working together and complement each other, not fight
one another over . basically nothing.
So, what do you think? My hand - which in this case I believe I can say
represents the hand of the whole Phorum - is stretched out. If you will
publish this open letter to you on your own forum "the damage will be
undone" like Steven and all the rest of us sincerely hope. The ball, I
believe, is in your side of the court!
Ciao and good luck,
Maurizio Bertoli

[sooze]

I stand by my previously stated personal opinions, which in the future, I will keep to myself. I have to wonder though, will I receive another hostile personal e-mail from Mr. B after this statement?

I promise to behave myself in public. I promise....

Sue

BTW, Tim (kemguru,) great response.

[tileguytodd]

Welcome Doitright,glad to have you aboard.:)

Maurazio's letter is a well stated reaching out of friendship.we all have our differances,god knows we air em all the time in the deep end.I for 1 would be glad to see him stop by for some friendly debates.the more heads the better i always say.I'll never be so old i cant learn more.Just so i dont forget that which i already know ;)
now where in hell did i put them nippers , hmmmmmmm damn things grew legs :D

[Maurizio Bertoli]

Hello all!
In a private answer to my open letter John Bridges invited me to partecipate at this great forum. And so did Tim (the Kemguru) not before one last little bickering on the NTC Phorum!
Before I put this whole thing behind us, I want to make one last clarification. When in my open letter to John I said: "at least I didn't call you an ass" I didn't mean to imply that he had called me names. I simply wanted to say that I did call him (because of a mistaken identity) "ol' chap" and "Brit-Canadian". Well, it's a good think that the other John Bridge is my friend, or else I could have called this John Bridge and ass if he weren't :) That's what I meant.
As far as all the name calling from the other partecipants goes, I am not a big guy, but I am a big boy! I can take them and just smile about the whole thing! I never hold a grudge: life's too darn short to get aggravated over some little bs like that!
Well, here I am.
I will try to help out inquirers with the little I know, and ... try to suck up as much information as possible from the other partecipants for the many things that I don't know.
I noticed that somebody posted my resume on this very thread. Well, that's who I am (including my picture. It does not render me justice, though: I was ... older back when it was taken!!)
And ... do NOT expect me to change and become a nice and polite lamb!! Nice and polite are plain boring in my book! Just keep in mind, all the time, that no matter how "nasty" I may seem to be at times, I always have a smile on my face and I never mean to insult or disrespect anybody. (Unless I openly say so, that is!)
Ciao and good luck, everybody,

Maurizio Bertoli

www.mbstone.com

MB Stone.com - Education before any sale!

PS: All I have to do now is to figure out how this whole site works! NTC Phorum is quite simpler!

:) :)

[kemguru]

I welcomed you in the Professional Hangout already. I would like to see this thread get burried deep in the vaults at the JBF. But again, welcome and thank you for taking the time to stop by. I know we all will have a great time due to how "animated" we all can be;)

You didnt say lamb did you?? There is something about sheep around here, I just dont know what, it was before my time
:confused:

Welcome, and thanks again!!

Tim

[Maurizio Bertoli]

Dear Tim:
Well, yeah ... I did say lamb. But the contest of the sentence was that I will NOT be one!!
Thank you for your welcome note.
Ciao and good luck,
Maurizio

[kemguru]

I understand what you were saying, I was just refering to a stange inside joke about sheep that has been going on here for a while, before my time, so I have no clue as to what the hell everybody is talking about. You will see little icons pop up round here like this :sheep: Why? I dont know:confused:

[flatfloor]

There was a member who was suspected of having carnal knowledge of a certain ewe. :D :eek:

[Cami A]

Tim, wellllll...ya just had to be here then. ;)

[John Bridge]

There was also an era in which a number of sheep jokes were related on this site. Lord, let's not go back to that. ;)

I'm glad you made it, Maurizio. We'll bury the hatchet and get on with business. There is a lot we all can learn. Now I'm gonna try to find that picture of yourself you mentioned. I wanna know how much better looking I am than you. :D

[drew]

That's what we all like about you JB, you're such a humble sort. :shades:

[Maurizio Bertoli]

Drew:
I don't know you from Adam, but it looks like you know me quite well.
I agree 100% on that Mark Twain quote. And, consequently, you must be extremely successful.:shades:
Ciao and good luck,

[flatfloor]

Miscommunication? :rolleyes:

Mario, you really must relax around here, I believe Drew was referring to John.

The Mark Twain quote is part of Drews signature. If you do a search for "Drew" you will find ALL his posts include that quote.

[Maurizio Bertoli]

Oops ... I'm so sorry. I really mean it.
Sorry, Drew. No hard feelings, I hope.
Ciao and good luck,

[John Bridge]

Please do relax, Maurizio. Most things happen in good spirit around this place. :)

I have two items I need to mention, however: Numero Uno, I can't find that picture of you. :D

And Numero Dos, I'm getting a barrage of auto-respond emails from your site stating that my "question has been recieved at MB Stone." I've gotten about 30 of them since yesterday. Please turn them off. I'm afraid to send you another email. Further, on this site do not post that email address. Post an alternate so that people can actually reach you. :)

[Rob Z]

One thing that started all this was the statement (paraphrased) that grout is waterproof, or that grout does not allow water to pass through it. Cement grouts have both porosity and permeability, in varying amounts based on the additives, density of application, and other factors. I am curious to hear Maurizio's basis for his opinion on this matter.

Empirical observations abound to support that cement grout is NOT waterproof (epoxy grouts have very low porosity and could well verge on being waterproof). I'll pass on this one:

I remodeled a bathroom in 1997 where the master bathroom shower backed directly up to the tub surround in the hall bathroom. When I tore out the master shower, the backside of long wall of the tub surround was completely exposed. This house was built about 17 years before. The grout was intact, as was the caulking, but the backside of the greenboard was mildewed. The lines of mildew were aligned horizontally, on 4 1/4" centers, from the lip of the tub up to about 4 feet high. Unfortunately, I didn't have my camera to record that one. :mad:

[Sonnie Layne]

Heck, (by Jove, et al) I thought everyone knew that cement is not impervious to moisture.

Uhh, well, depending on the 'fines' I suppose. I'm only mouthing off 'cause maybe by doing so it'll get me a good contact with some really fresh parmasionno reggiano ;). Or maybe not :(

[Ron]

I guess from the outside looking in,this forum doesn't appear too serious.There are smilies,W.C. Fields quotes,jokes,tongue-in-cheek remarks,etc. I like all that stuff. :)

But when it comes to tile and mortar,damnit,this place is very serious...academic almost.And I like that too.

[Maurizio Bertoli]

Dear Rob:
I'll be glad to follow up your question. But it will take me some time and I am beyond busy right now. Just a few more days (I hope!).
I will start a new post on the subject in the professional hangout forum.
It'll be fun!! :) :)
Ciao and good luck,