Onyx tiles damaged by vinegar?

[jamonil]

I'm remodeling my bathroom and installed 12x12 green onyx tiles in the shower. I used Laticrete Spectralock grout for the 1/8 inch between the tiles. For the grout cleanup I used a diluted water/vinegar solution as recommended in the grout instructions. However, now my onyx tiles that used to have a mirror-like shine, have a dull look to them and aren't shiny any more. Is there a sealer or polisher that I can use to restore their beauty? Help!!

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[Mike2]

I'll move you over to the Restoration Section jamon. Sounds to me like your tiles have become etched. Onyx, which is a type of marble I believe, at least in the marble family is susceptible to damage from acids such as vinegar and citrus-based products.


Don't know what can be done about it other than a re-polish by a professional restorer but the experts in our Restoration Section can tell you all about that.

[jamonil]

Thanks Mike for your suggestion.

I was also wondering if one of the marble tile sealers would restore some of the sheen back to the tiles?

Otherwise, I can't imagine how much a professional restorer would cost here in Central Florida.

Any other suggestions from anyone?

[Mike2]

Hang on Jamon. A couple of the guru's in here are professional restorers. While they are not necessarily located in your area perhaps they can give you more insight into all that.

I know of and have used several marble polishes. At least the one's I am familiar with seem to work fine BUT they are somewhat topical in nature and do wear off.

I just checked one jug I currently have, from Custom Building Products called Marble Shine-N-Seal. It works good, excellent in fact as a topical coating but I'm not sure if CBP even makes it now days. :shrug:

[MasterGranite]

Well the real question is what type of *onyx* do you have. Some onyx is made up of quartz mainly but is usually used for decorative items like figurines and jewlery. What you probably have is onyx made up primarily of Calcareous stone.

"Calcareous stone is composed mainly of calcium carbonate. It is sensitive to acidic cleaning products and frequently requires different cleaning procedures than siliceous stone. What may work on siliceous stone may not be suitable of calcareous surfaces."

* Types of calcareous stone include marble, travertine, limestone and onyx.

OK back to your problem. Calcareous stone reacts with acids like vinegar! Yikes you etched off the finish if it's a polished finish. Very bad. This same thing happens with polished marble. You should have done a test prior to applying vinegar to your stone finish. Now that you have what you have which is etched stone on a polished finish, you need to refinish the stone and that might not even work as the acids get into the stone and a chemical reaction took place. Not good. You could opt for a new honed finish, which would render the etch *mostly* non-visible, or rip it all out and start over. You will have to be careful with cleaners as well, as some cleaners can etch stone. Also onyx if very soft so be sure you don't scratch it with your cleaning tool. Onyx looks great but is not the best choice for any high traffic area or an area that requires alot of cleaning like a shower. The best applications with onyx are as a design accent and not a complete wall/floor, unless of course you are knowing what you are getting yourself into.

[jamonil]

Thanks Mike and Bob for your encouragement and suggestions. Mike, I did a google search for Marble Shine-N-Seal and could not find it so I'm assuming the product is no longer made or has a different name.

Bob, how would I go about finding a marble restorer in my area to take a look at the wall? From your description, I think my onyx is a marble one. I can post a couple of pictures tonight.

Do you have any suggestions for a sealer? Thanks!

[jvcstone]

Hi Jamonil,

Sorry to hear about your trouble. Yes your stone has been chemically etched, and the only thing that will bring it back to a polished surface is with the use of diamonds--not really a DIY job. Call a few Marble and granite shops, to get some restoration referals. Or ask the people who sold you the tile in the first place. I say to get several estimates because there can be a difference in workmanship and quality. If someone uses the word "crystallization" show them the door pronto--not a nice thing to do to natural stone.
Good luck,
JVC

[claycarson]

Ditto what JVC said - it is not probbly necessary to rip out. And a good stone restoration pro ought to be able to demonstrate before he does the job, so you have some idea of end result.

Notice I did not say it would necessarily be a free demo. We sometimes do free ones and sometimes charge - time is money.

Green onyx sounds beautiful. I love that stuff. Any pictures???

[jdm]

Is the sand in the SpectraLock grout going to cause problems with the restoration?

[Stonehenge]

Yes

[jvcstone]

sanded grout sure could present a problem. I was assuming that unsanded grout was used with a 1/8 joint, but then, what do I know. Actually diddly squat about tile- bit more about natural stone. :shrug:
JVC

[GraniteGirl]

Just a couple more observations:

A topical sealer in a wet environment like a shower is not a very good idea. Natural stone performs best when allowed to "breathe" - i.e. allow natural migration of vapor through the stone. An impregnating sealer will still allow this while a topical sealer might end up trapping moisture behind and in the stone and this could cause some serious trouble.

All personal cleaning products like shampoos, facial cleansers and soaps contain some form of acid. This will etch your onyx over time too. A honed finish (as suggested earlier) will hide this, but it will not be shiny. You could enhance the color of the tile with an impregnating enhancing sealer, though. This might be something to keep in mind when considering a refininsh of your shower. You (or rather your restoration pro) will have trouble polishing it back to a high gloss with the grout being sanded and all. Honed and enhanced onyx is overall a better choice for having in a shower anyways.

[joh]

jamonil, is it possible to see a picture of this floor.

[joh]

Onyx is one of the coolest stones on the planet.
It is my hopes that we can help you save your polish stone.

http://www.huligar.com/projects/gallery/photo25.JPG

[claycarson]

I agree with joh - it is underused.

I love it when it's backlit, like the photo, so you can see through it....way too cool.

:tup1:

[Lou Noble]

all you need to do is re-polish with diamonds... that is an "easy" fix( for a guy that does restoration for a living) What area do you live in, i might know some people in your area that are fair priced and do quality work.

[joh]

Lou, it may even be less work than that.
Onyx is a very funny stone when it comes to re-polishing with diamonds. I know a few easy ways that the damage that this home owner has describe, but I need to see what is going on with the stone before I :blah:

[StoneBuddy]

This should be a routine job for a restoration contractor, which the NSRA has members in Central Florida. Unfortunately, like everyone else has said, is that your stone is etched. HOPEFULLY, it is not too bad and diamond work and a powder polish will rectify the situation.

Whereabouts in Central Florida?

As far as the sanded grout....may or may not pose a problem. Is the grout flush with the tiles, or is it recessed a slight bit? Most restoration pros will shy away from sanded grout, but it is not that big of a deal as long as it is not flush with the stone.

How long ago was it grouted? With plenty of set time for the grout, one should not worry too much about it interfering with the resto process.

Pictures pictures pictures......PLEASE?

[sgrandjean]

Pssst...Buddy, if you had asked for pichers, we might have some by now. :rolleyes: If you haven't figured out yet, everyone here likes pichers.

Cheers.

[Lou Noble]

Joh... Isnt the NSRA in Florida? While this is not a "hard" job to take care of it still should be a job that an experianced Resto Head should take care of.

[Stonehenge]

Around nine years ago I had the pleasure of polishing Green Onyx inserts as part of a 150 year old Marble Church altar. In as far as a correct repair goes it was all diamonds and no powder, the real answer is finding the correct diamond abrasives, after all diamond abrasives are not created equal much like the person that wields them.

Michael of Stonehenge

[StoneBuddy]

If you haven't figured out yet, everyone here likes pichers.


http://www.curevents.com/vb/images/smilies/worth.gif


I've been wanting to use this smilie for so long.

[jamonil]

Here are a few pictures of the onyx shower wall. Also, I'm holding up a left over tile next to one of the "damaged" ones.

[GraniteGirl]

Hi Jamon

That is a very beautiful shower and you have obviously spent a lot of time and money on it so far.

The fact is that you are setting yourself up for a maintenance nightmare having the polished onyx in the shower. No matter how careful you are with daily maintenance (rinsing after every shower, squeegee drying after every shower, cleaning the entire area with stone-specific cleaners, etc. etc.), you will still have your stone etch through just contact with slightly acidic water and any personal hygiene products (most all of which contain an acid of some kind). The shine is going to wear off. There is nothing that you could put on your stone that will prevent this from happening.

As Jo and the other resto guys have stated, it would not be impossible to have it polished back to its' original luster, but are you prepared to spend that amount of money on a regular basis? And as another consideration - will you be able to find a restoration pro with the required skills in your area? Not every guy able to swing a polisher will be able to do what you need done.

My humble opinion would be to get a good restorer in there, hone the onyx and treat it with an enhancing sealer. It will make any future chemical damage a lot less obvious.

[doitright]

Hi Jamonil :)

I agree with Adriana. :tup2:

The spectralock grout won't necessarily cause any problems. It all depends on how clean the restoration pro keeps the area between grits. I suggest a good rinse and wet vac between grits.

Before you commit to anyone doing any work, I suggest you try to duplicate the damage on one of you spare tiles, and have them finish it the way you want it (if they can).

[jamonil]

Thank you guys and Adriana for all your comments and suggestions. However, I'm a bit confused. Adriana suggests (and some agree) that I hone the tiles, which should be easier maintenance and cleaning in the future.

However, Lou and others suggest re-polishing the tiles. Even thought the tiles look pretty spectacular either honed or polished, I would like them somewhat lustrous and shiny. Maybe they weren't the best choice for a shower, but they were so incredibly beautiful when I bought them, I was really captivated by their mirror-like finish.

If anyone has any suggestions for a professional here in Orlando or anywhere in Central Florida, I would appreciate it VERY MUCH!!! Before I continue making mistakes I would at least like to seal the tiles so they can "breathe" and maybe shine a little more.

Thanks again everyone for all your comments! I have printed them all out for referencing in the future.

Jamonil

[GraniteGirl]

Jamonil

You need to have realistic expectations of your stone. The onyx you have on the shower walls will etch if exposed to acid. Nothing you do to the stone or put on it will prevent this.

Jo and his friends will be able to polish it. This does not mean it will not etch again. It merely means that it will be shiny until you have exposed it to enough acids to etch again. Then you will need to repolish it. This will happen over and over and over again. You polish the stone, take a few showers and etch it again.

If you expect this of the stone and can live with the cost and inconvenience only to have a shiny shower, good on you. If not, consider an alternative finish (honed and enhanced). It will not be brilliantly shiny, but it will be easier to maintain and look better than a spotty, runny etch pattern on a polished tile.

[jamonil]

Thanks Adriana. Can you give me more information on the honed look that you are suggesting? It's not worth the cost and effort to keep repolishing the shower all the time. I guess I should have done more research when selecting a stone for my shower and wall, though I still love this green onyx.

Can you advise me what is involved in honing the tile, and how I go about selecting a professional to work on it?

Thanks again to all the great people in this forum for all your suggestions and comments. I am so glad I found this website!

[StoneBuddy]

Jamon, a honed finish is easiest described when compared to paint finishes. A polished stone is like say a high gloss paint. A honed finish is anywhere from an eg-shel to a satin, depending on the grit the stone is left at.

Finding a contractor to do the work is the hard part. The NSRA has members in FL and would be glad to help. Also, maintenance in the future on a honed stone is MUCH cheaper than the maintenance or restoration work on a polished stone because of the amount of work involved in the polishing process.

IF(it's a really big word) the etch marks on the stone can be polished out with a simple powder polish, this would affect cost dramatically

Locate local restoration pro, have him come out and hone a tile for you, so you can see the sheen.

[doitright]

Hi Buddy :)

If anyone has any suggestions for a professional here in Orlando or anywhere in Central Florida, I would appreciate it VERY MUCH!!!
Jamonil

The NSRA has members in FL and would be glad to help.


Can you forward these members names to jamonil? :shades: ;)

[jamonil]

Stonebuddy, I looked up the National Stone Restoration Alliance website, but I couldn't find how to locate members or professionals in my area. Do you have a suggestion how I can find one? I would appreciate it very much!
Jamonil

[StoneBuddy]

I don't like advertising the NSRA on this forum, but we can be found at http://www.huligar.com/nsraweb/forum/index.php

Moderator, if this link is out of line, please remove.

Jamonil, please repost on this other forum and remind us you came from John Bridge, the reference makes your claim VERY reputable.

Thanks again.

Remember Jamonil, pictures speak better than you can type any day.....

[claycarson]

It's like I said earlier, this stuff is seriously beautiful! It's the focal point of the room. I can understand why you like it!

Yikes! I believe it could be addictive!

[joh]

Hi jamonil, no need to repost on the other forum, I just sent you a pm.
I am going back :fish1: for the next few days