Tumbled Travertine - Driveway/Pool Patio

[Macky]

Good Afternoon,

I am new to the forum and was fortunate enough to find all of you and your expertise. Here is my issue. About two months ago I had a Tumbled Travertine large stone "French" four pattern placed around my pool patio. After it was cleaned and dried, a solvent based sealer was applied. Since then I have noticed large amounts of effloressence on many of the stone. This is what initially got me on the internet to search out solutions and how I found this forum. From what I have read, I may need to strip the sealer, apply a cleaner specific for this problem, then reseal. I'd like to hear your opinion on what I should consider doing and perhaps a recommendation on a specific cleaner. I would also be open to using a stone restoration company but I like doing "Things" myself and am fairly accomplished as a homeowner.

Additionally, I am laying approximately 1000 square feet of 16x24 Tumbled Travertine on my driveway and walk-way and need some suggestions on the following:

1) I want to use an impregnating color enhancer to bring out the rich Salmon/Rose, natural colorings of the unsealed driveway stone.
2) Due to the nature of parking cars on it I need as strong a sealer as I can find. I prefer organic solvent based products but will listen to the experienced.
3) After removing the sealer on the back patio I want to be able to use the same sealer as I used on the driveway, there as well.
4) I will make it a practice to clean and re-seal every two years, religiously once I identify the products that I need.

Regards,
Tim McDonald (Macky)

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[doitright]

Hi Tim, Welcome! :)

Any chance you can post a picture?

Do you know specifically which sealer was used?

Was the travertine installed over concrete slabs? Thinset or mud installation?

Efflorescence is caused by the migration of salts to the surface. Removal from a calcerous stone is more difficult, as the product needed to remove efflorescence can damage the surface of that type of stone. Sometimes mechanical removal is an option.

Adding an enhancer after a surface is sealed is usually not very effective. Removing impregnating sealers can also be a chore.

Please forward more details, and we'll try to help the best we can.

[Macky]

DoitRightt,

I don't know exactly what was used for the patio sealer but I will ask the builder for specifics although this may take a day or so. I do know that it was solvent based because the xylene smell was rather strong. The pool Travertine was set in sand and the driveway will be installed in sand placed over a good amount of compacted road-rock, to our local building code. Since nothing has been applied to the driveway I need to answer this question first then deal with the pool patio. I have spoken to the stone importer and after viewing the project he has agreed to change out some of the more problematic areas with new stone but I don't know if this is a cure all. Still, it showed good will on his part so I'll take him up on his offer. I am working on posting up a few pictures.

Thanks,
Tim

[Macky]

Let's see if this works! Hope this has enough resolution to give you an idea.

[doitright]

Hi Tim :)

You may want to try Stone Techs Enhancer Pro on the driveway.

It's possible that a topical sealer was used on the pool patio, and might not have been thoroughly dry when the sealer was applied. Can you post a picture of the problematic areas?

[Trask]

John I think the "Xylene" smell is a good clue. Seen that or smelled it used (Xylol could be the carrier) as a top coat sealer on exposed agg. concrete. Also seen it turn white in spots due to moisture.

[doitright]

Hi Trask :)

That is what I'm basing my opinion on. :nod:

[Trask]

So while we're waitin' for Tim to come back...what strips that off? MEK? Worse?

[doitright]

Hi Trask :)

I'd use Prosoco's Fast Acting Stripper. It's a methelyne chloride based product. It's great because it neutralizes with water. It is messy though. Not a job that I'd be in a hurry to pursue. :eek:

[Macky]

The pool patio area was set in two days with the weather under ideal conditions. Low Humidity and Temperatures in the 90's. Then on the third day it was low pressure cleaned under the same conditions. In the late morning of the fourth day under about 90-95 degree conditions the well dried patio was air blasted to make the surface as perfect as possible, then sealed as explained above. I watched the entire process and feel confident that moisture as implied above was not the issue. The problem happened over a short period of time and simply got worse. What I am seeing is not heavy duty effloressence that can be scratched of but rather a litening of the original colors to a more washed out white hazy look. Could it be that this is not what I suspect but something else? The picture I posted shows the white powdery color but the post will only show part of the picture in detail. When I try to link to a host site it won't let me so hopefully I can explain what I am seeing enough to be of some help. ALDON makes a cleaner, "Efflorescence-treatment", specific for this problem and it looks promising but I would like to stay with the same manufacturer for all products I use. I'll need to look and see if Stone Tech has an equivalent product.

Thanks,
Tim

[doitright]

Hi Tim :)

I'm guessing you used a Aldon sealer? If so, which one?

[Macky]

Doitright,

This is all I know.

5 gallon black metal pail, Strong Xylene smell. Not a problem with it not sealing and adhering. Main issue is this whitening of the stone. Have no idea about the manufacturer but I intend to find out shortly. :shrug:

Is this xylene based sealer meant for Travertine stone or not?

[GraniteGirl]

Is this sealer topical (like a urethane varnish almost) or did it absorb into the stone so that it is not visible as a layer on top of the tiles?

Edit: You would not be able to post links until you have 10 posts (this is to prevent spam.) E-mail one of us the link and we'll post it for you. :D

[doitright]

Hi Tim :)

I thought you knew the name of the sealer, as you mentioned that you wanted all of the products to be from the same manufacturer. While this is great advice to follow, it's not always possible, or necessary for that matter.

Kinda of like using the same brand thinset and grout. Manufacturer would prefer us to go that route. It's good for sales. :nod:

I don't see any efflorescence on the picture you posted. Can you post a picture of a larger area?

[verotileguy]

Knowing what type of solvent based sealer was used would be helpfull to give you some advice.

GL.

[Macky]

Verotileguy,

I am sure by the smell it was xylene based.

[Macky]

GraniteGirl,

The sealer appears to be Topical to my eye as it formed a nice shiney surface. Although many of stones look dull and without sealer even though they were all sealed at the same time. Another thing is that if the stone gets wet all the beautiful colors simply explode back to the surface. It dulls and goes back to the faded color look as it dries. I am feeling a little down about the entire issue but I can't see anything that I could have predicted or done to prevent it. :scratch:

Tim

[Macky]

I have spoken with the person who sealed the patio deck and he confirmed that the sealer used is xylene based. He has agreed to get me a pamphlet from the manufacturer with all the sealer information. In order to know what will work to remove the sealer, I had the idea to pry up one of the sealed travertine pavers and experiment with it by applying several different organic solvents to see which one works the best. Does this sound logical to you?

I spoke with a Stone Technology Technical Specialist today and will probably pick up a small bottle of their Stone Sealer #5 to try on the unsealed driveway travertine. Installation should be done by the weekend or early next week so I should have time to play around with their product and see how it responds/reacts on the new travertine. :yipee:

[GraniteGirl]

Hi Macky

If I'm understanding you right - the tiles gving the trouble are set in sand, outside.

My guess at the cause of the dull spots would be moisture migration through the travertine getting trapped under the coat of whatever topical sealer was applied. I am not a big fan of a topical anything over stone (and especially not on the floor). It prevents the stone from "breathing".

Impregnating sealers allow for the natural migration of gas and moisture through the rock and are a lot better for the well being of your tile.

Stripping a topical sealer is no mean feat either - and I guess the character of your travertine will add a lot to the joys of trying to remove all the sealer :bang:

Get yourself an impregnating enhancing sealer that is oil resistant (thinking of specifically the driveway here). Check for that - it would normally tell you on the container. Travertine in itself is pretty dense and water will most likely not absorb into the tile anyway. The oiliness will be your biggest problem.

:goodluck:

[doitright]

Hi Adriana :)

Thank you for your eloquent reply. I agree, and came to the same conclusion as more information was posted. :tup2:

[Macky]

Thanks one and all! :tup2: