Demo Hammer Recommendations

[PSULion92]

Hi guys:

I was hoping someone could give me a specific recommendation for a demo hammer. I want to purchase one, then likely sell it after I am finished. I prefer not to rent one in order to be able to work at my own pace. I was looking at the Bosch Model 11318EVS-RT, which is available refurbished from Bosch for about $400. They also have several other models, in varying price ranges.

I plan on removing about 1000 SF of ceramic on a concrete slab. It has been easy to get the tiles off, but the thinset has been tough. I have only done a 35 SF bathroom using hand tools, and for the remaining project, I really need something electric!

Thanks guys,

JS

[Sponsored Links]

[bobturner]

Check out the dewalts. I use mine a lot and its lighter, cheaper, and more powerfull than the Bosch. I think I paid $360 for mine new not refurbished.

[PSULion92]

Do you have a model number for your DeWalt?

Thanks,

JS

[bobturner]

http://www.dewalt.com/us/products/tool_detail.asp?productID=5867

hope that helps. I used a Bosch for years and this thing has just as much power but half the weight.

[PSULion92]

What type of scraping blade do you attach to the DeWalt and where do you get yours?

Thanks again!!!

JS

[bobturner]

I use a 3" scaling chisel. I got mine with the hammer at a local tool store. ($30)I am sure they will have them wherever you decide to get yours. I have even seen them at HD.

[PSULion92]

Guys:

Any other recommendations before I pick up the DeWalt?

Thanks,

JS

[jdkimes]

Have you tried Tool King? They have that DeWalt for $259 plus $8 shipping. Factory recon. I've bought a bunch of stuff there and the factory recon looks brand new and has same warranty as the new.
I live in Denver area so can't speak to their shipping speeds, but seem like a good outfit.

[verotileguy]

i have four Makita 20 lb demo hammers with 6 " carbon steel blades, Exellent for thinset removal, mud removal, the smaller 3 in blade we use for the actual tile and stone. average price is around 400.00 with the 6 in blade running around 120.00. these pay for themselves

Upsides.. Very reliable, have had no problems with hammers themselves and 2 of them are 3 yrs old, They do get used quite often..

Downsides.. Heavy, but 6 in blade has a 2 ft shaft, no kneeling.. the 6 in blade has one draw back, it is thru bolted, Buy extra bolts from makita, these are case hardened but they do shear of after around 2 thousand ft of demo.

Also great for vinyl demo.
'




'

[Rd Tile]

:tup1:

[PSULion92]

Since I have STILL not bought a demo hammer, what is the opinion on this for floor tile removal?

Bosch 6.5Amp SDS-plus Chipping Hammer Model# 11320VS
$279.90

Specially-Designed Impact Mechanism: Smooth change between no-load and hammering modes. Superior tool control for easier positioning and precision chiseling.
SDS-plus Bit System: Tool-free bit changes with auto bit locking, dust protection and maximum impact energy transfer. Eliminates problems associated with proprietary types of steel.
Variable Speed Trigger switch with Lock-on: Exact adjustment of impact force. Greater comfort, less fatigue.
Oil Lubrication: Excellent cold-start and sure lubrication in all working positions.
Vario-Lock: Rotate and lock chisel into 12 different positions to optimize working angle.
Cushioned Softgrip Rear Handle: Absorbs shock and vibration for operator comfort and less fatigue.

[PSULion92]

All this demo hammer research is driving me crazy. Do I need to get a DEMO HAMMER or will a HAMMER DRILL with a CHIPPING FEATURE (similar to the one Bob described above), be ok?

I would prefer to buy from one of the big box stores because of the return policy versus buying online, but HD does not really carry anything and Lowes only charries Hitatchi.

Eveyone here seems to have a different recommendation based on my review of the posts. Any concensus on what a homeowner should get to remove 1000SF of tile?

Thanks,

John

[prashster]

This is a hard decision and the reason why I'd say rent and plan to finish the job in a single day.

A hammer drill is good for drilling anchor holes in concrete. It's light and can drill holes in wood in a pinch. Other than that, it's a waste.

A rotary hammer comes in 2 flavors: SDS and SDSMax/Spline. Difference is in the chuck and motor size; regular SDS holds smaller bits. Both types can be hammer drills, or can operate in chipping mode only. An SDS in chip mode is what I'd use for demo-ing the tiles or for drilling holes in concrete. But that's all it's good for (IMHO) - check out the Bosch Bulldog. Light and powerful. The Max is good for drilling a dustless hole for a sump pit - where you need to drill huge pilot holes and then chip out a few inches of concrete in a small area. It's too unwieldy for the tile work, and can chip the substrate if yr not careful. But it's too wimpy to carve out any serious trenches in concrete.

A demo hammer only chips; it's a mini jackhammer. But bkz it doesn't have to have a rotary chuck, it's a better and more efficient chipper than an rhammer is. These tools are probably good if you have to work horizontally to bust up a foundation. They do a passable but painful job of busting trenches. But to do THAT right, you shld really get a jackhammer.

The bottom line (for me) is that each of the tools has it's specific strong point, and you might not get much repeated use out of any one. Yet, you'll have to ante up $300-$1000 for any one. Rent. Rent 2 days if you really need to. 1000sft isn't THAT much that it can't be accomplished in a day.

Use a respirator. Concrete dust is bad for you.

[howgil]

My experience with the chipping hammer is that it is great for removing tile and not so good for getting thinset off a concrete slab. The Bosch surface grinder works great, and has an unbelievably efficient dust removal system.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000719W8/002-7360174-1953600

[stullis]

Surface grinder is great but be prepared to go through a lot of vacuum bags.
Definitely use a bag in the vacuum too or you will burn up the vacuum quickly.

If tile are down well a pneumatic air hammer works better to remove the tile.

[PSULion92]

Great comments.

Re: Renting one from HD. I need to do this project over several weeks, if not months. I can't (more like don't want to), rent the tool over and over. I would rather just buy one.

I think I'll take the plunge with a demo hammer. Never know when you are goingi to need to demo some concrete or tile :)

How do you hook up that grinder to a vacuum? Oh, I just saw it comes with an adapter for a vacuum hookup. Does that really work?

John

[howgil]

Yes, it really works. I removed the thin set from my bathroom floor in less than an hour. The floor is about 8' x 11' and I filled 2 vacuum bags using a 10 gal shop vac. The floor is now flat and clean. If you change the bag when needed, you will capture almost all the dust. The Bosch grinder comes with a coarse diamond disk, and it cuts through thin set like you are sanding balsa wood. Read the comments on Amazon.com.

[PSULion92]

I think I might just go ahead and get the Dewalk SDS Max hammer/chipper, and what the heck, the grinder also. For a few hundred bucks, this should go really easily. Considering the bids to remove this were in the $2500-$3000 range, I am still WAY ahead.

John

[Dan Clark]

John,

I've been in your situation before - need a tool that I'd normally rent, but want to do the project in smaller chunks over many days. Normally, I buy better quality tools (Festool, Makita, Bosch, etc.) for critical work or long-term use. But as a rental replacment, I've bought Harbor Freight.

So far, I got a Harbor Freight 1/2" slow speed drill for mixing thin-set and a roto-hammer for drilling holes in a concrete footing. I tested them out and they seem work fine. Actually, the roto-hammer exceeded my expectations when i tested it.

Here's the roto-hammer I bought that does hammer only and roto-hammer ($75):
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=47606

A less expensive option ($40):
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=41983

And a 2HP, hand-held demo hammer ($150):
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=93853

Also, if you have a compressor, here are two air-driven hammer kits: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Category.taf?CategoryID=328&pricetype=

Regards,

Dan.

[prashster]

Despite my advice to you, I too bought a 'disposable' rotohammer (SDS regular) for about $40 on e*b*a*y. I expected the motor to conk after one use, but it's hanging in there after 2 jobs. It's icing at this point.

I suggest yr demohammer there too.

[PSULion92]

Dan:

Are these seriously THAT cheap? That one pneumatic hammer (the heavy duty one) is like $9.99??? I have access to a large compressor, so this might be a very good option to chip out the tile, then just buy the Bosch grinder to get rid of the thinset.

Do you think this

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=92037

will remove tile? It is under $10!!!

John

[Dan Clark]

John,

Hi. I don't own one. I just included it as an option. It's meant for metal work, but it's still a chisel hammer. It's cheap and it might work.

Dan.

p.s., normally, I buy better quality tools and tend to scoff at the lower-end stuff. However, I've been moderately impressed with the HF tools given the low cost. I'm thinking about buying one of their brad nailers "just for grins". OTOH, brad nailers and micro-pinners are in my list of long-term tools. Money. Quality. Money. Quality. Still thinking...

[PSULion92]

I got one of their brad nailers for $19.99. It never did work properly because I had one h#ll of a time loading the brads into it. I got frustrated and just took it back and borrowed the neighbors Porter Cable, which worked like a charm. :yipee:

Give it a shot, if it works for you, keep it, if not just return it. They have a good return policy. I have their 1/2" drill to mix thinset and it works great. :yipee:

I too like to buy top quality tools, but for tools that I use once or twice a year, HF is fine. :clap2:

John

[stullis]

Yes John they are that cheap. Top one from HD will be around $29.
They take up the tile at a much faster rate than the electric ones if the tile is well set to begin with.

You will need eye protection and gloves are a minimum requirement as the tile chips are sharp and they will be flying.

[PSULion92]

Why don't people use these more often to remove tile? It seems like all the contractor types have compressors, but this is the first time I heard of the recommendation?

John

[stullis]

The demo hammers take up the thinset better/quicker. You are farther away from flying chips and can typically stand up while doing the take up. With the pneumatic you are right down there on your knees.
Also many tile jobs are not set that well if they aren't set well you could use a spud bar to take them up.

I actually use a tool called the Pogo stick. Takes a big compressor though to run it. I still use the small hammer to remove the tile and then the Pogo to remove thinset or VCT tile.

www.floor-equipment.com/products/pogo-scraper---pneumatic-spud-bar-28.html

Hearing protection is another thing you will want as well with whatever method you use. Take up is LOUD with these tools.

[rdtompki]

I've got a small Bosch which is a nice tool, but not to be recommended for 1000 sf. I rented a large Hilti to chip out around my shower drain and I really like the tool: extremely low vibration. The larger Bosch demo hammers I've rented bothered my hands more than the Hilti. Home Depot, where I rented the Hilti, also had the 6" blade. Buy a blade and rent a good-size demo hammer; you'll be done with the whole thing in one day for about $200. Kneeling down and chiseling away with a 1.5" wide blades and a small hammer/drill is brutal. Goggles, knee pads, eye/face protection a must, of course

Rick

[Shane72]

I'll throw in my two cents here....

You are just looking to remove the thinset, right? Leaving the slab in tact?

I took out a 120sq ft of 4" poured concrete from my bath (107 year old house-- don't ask) with a air chisel. The tool was about $30 and worked like a charm. I know you have a lot of square footage but it should break up like candy and the job should go quickly...

Shane

[PSULion92]

I am only trying to remove the tile off of the slab.

I think the best way to go is to try to break the tile up with a shovel/bar. Chip off the tile with a pnematic chipper thing cause I already have a large compressor (or at least my friend does :).

Then, grind off the thinset with the Bosch cup grinder (?) attached to a shop vac.

Hopefully it will not take forever. :gerg:

John

[PSULion92]

Do you think this is a good shop vac to hook up the Bosch Grinder or is this vac tooooo small?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00005AXI1

John

[howgil]

I think that it is large enough. No matter what vac you buy you should purchase special vacuum bags rated for cement dust. They have them at Lowes and Wal-Mart in a two pack for about $8.

[PSULion92]

I don't think that particular model uses bags? It has a filter, but no bags.

With the long hose, I was hoping to keep it outside, or at least near a window, and let the neighbors breath the dust :crazy:

John

[howgil]

Bags are not usually included, but they make them for virtually all shop vacs for use on fine particulates. I use the bags and a HEPA filter, and nothing gets through. The filter that comes with the vac is OK for sawdust, but won't filter out cement dust. If you use the HEPA filter alone, it will probably clog up pretty fast. You'll be amazed at how much dust the bags catch. On my small floor I bet there was over 10 lbs of dust in the two bags I used.

[ncor]

drywall dust is in the range of 1 micron, cement dust is 2 micron fiberglass is 3 microns none of that stuff is what you want to be directing at your neighbors through a shop vac. contain your work area, wear a resporator that will protect your lungs. rent a porter cable shopvac/drywall sander buy the bags at the tool rental at home depot have them show you how to oporate the PC system. The silica from demoing this job is extremly hazerdous. If they rent the bosh surface grinder get it you will need no more than the cheapest dimond cup about 50 bucks. will esially do your surface with plenty of dimond grit to spare. may need an adapter to connect the bosh to the porter cable. air chisel, sds hammer, pogo all will do this work so will an 18 pound sledg and a 5 foot linolium scrapper watched a demo done once that way. most important part of this job is controlling the dust you will be generating with a dimond cup wheel.

[stullis]

www.portercable.com/index.asp?e=547&p=2867

Use one of these vacuums with a bag. If you don't chip the majority of the thinset off you will go through ALOT of bags using the Bosch Surface Grinder.

I used the grinder without a bag for a little bit with my Fein vacuum and the vacuum didn't last long. :bang: :bang:

[PSULion92]

I was joking about the neighbors breating the dust. They are far enough away it would dissipate anyways.

I ordered the Bosch grinder on Amazon yesterday. With the $50 off, it was like $309 with free shipping! Not tooo bad.

Next, I'll pick up the air chisel and fire up the compressor and see how that goes.

I'll post pictures of the demo if anyone is interested?

John

[PSULion92]

Stullis:

Do you have any other shop vac recommendations? Those Porter Cable vacs are kinda expensive! :eek:

John

[prashster]

Festool ;)

[PSULion92]

They look even MORE expensive!!! :cry:

[keastman]

There's a company that makes filters for shop vacs (sears, rigid, shopvac) that can handle dry wall dust, and concrete dust fine. That coupled with a bag should enable you to use any good run of the mill sub $100 wet/dry vac. The filter I believe is made of gortex or something similar. Sorry I don't remember the name. HD used to sell them. I've had one on a craftsman vac for over 5 years and it has gotten me through a lot of dry wall work and also tile work. For dry wall, I hook a drywall sander up directly to the vac and there is never a dust film left in the room, so I know that it isn't letting much if anything through. The difference was like night and day when I switched to that filter, they also last for ever. They run about $25.

[PSULion92]

Kevin:

Are you referring to a drywall FILTER or BAG?

John

[stullis]

A good Shop Vac will do the job. With the bags! :)

[Dan Clark]

I have a CT22. Strong, adjustable suction. Lots of accessories. HEPA.

One of the things that I really appreciate is that it's VERY quiet. Unlike my old shop vac, it is so quiet is that I ALWAYS use it. Think of it as a high quality household vacuum only queter! I love it.

Yep, at $425, It's probably more expensive. That said, it will probably be the last one you ever buy.

IMO, the key question is, how important is quality dust collection to you. Be careful, though. Once you get used to a quality DC, there's no going back. But it's like the rest of the Festool slippery slope. Once you have one, you want more! "Ya can't eat just one!" :D

regards,

Dan.

p.s. to be fair, Fein and other manufacturers make excellent vacs and Dust Collectors.

[keastman]

That filter replacement that I posted about is called a Clean Stream, I looked at it today. It looks like the regular replacement filter for the vac but the pleats are a special material that traps much smaller debris. As I said. I can sand the dry wall for a room with it and get no dust layer on any thing in the room, so I know it works well. Before it would be everywhere with the regular filter. If you coupled that with a bag for the vac, I'm sure you'd be good to go. As far as longevity, I wish my Craftsman vac would die but at aabout 10 ysrs old it keeps on sucking. I'm sure that filter has extended it's life some by keeping the motor cleaner.

I just googled them. They are still made and you can get them on line. They have models to fit a variety of vacs. Good luck.