View Full Version : need advice on membrane installation
07-14-2006, 10:18 AM
I am tiling an outdoor deck over living space. I will be using a waterproofing and antifracture membrane under the tile called jiffyseal which is made by protectowrap. I have to apply this membrane with a primer and I think it may be difficult to do. I would like to know if anyone has used this product before and could give some advice on how to apply the membrane. Thanks,
I've never used it but it sounds like it might be similar to ECB membrane. If that's the case, it's a little tricky to apply without a lot of swearing and sticky fingers!
Welcome, Lesley. :)
I'm not familiar with that product either, but we have folks hereabouts who use Protectowrap products. Hang on and one of'em will find you.
'Till then, how 'bout you tell us just what you're applying that material over? Outdoor deck over living space requires a very serious decking system under the tile if it's to be successful.
My opinion; worth price charged.
07-14-2006, 04:35 PM
Hi again. Thanks for the response and the welcome.
My deck is built with 2x8 joists at 12" on centre. Over this I put 3/4" exterior grade fir plywood (1 layer only) with 1/2" hardibacker on top of that.
The deck span is only 9x 17 with a 6x6 post in the middle of the room below with a double 2x8 beam spanning that centre post and two more on the exterior walls. The exterior wall construction is 2x6 wall studs at 16" on centre. Hope that's enough info. I have had an engineer friend look at it and give the thumbs up.
I have researched the protectowrap products and it seems very good but it does look like it will be sticky and frustrating to apply.
The primer goes on with a brush and then has to set a bit until tacky (I guess like rubber cement) I have flashed the edge of the deck and will use the jiffyseal 500 which is a 6" roll unreinforced membrane to go over the edge of the deck and flashing. It is flexible and I have been advised to use it on the inside and outside corners and then use the reinforced membrane over top of this so that all of the edges have two layers of the membrane.
The peal and stick appealed to me but I didn't realize that the primer would be a sticky product.
I hope that anyone who has used this will find this post and give some more advise - I am hoping to apply the membrane tomorrow if the weather cooperates.
On a seperate topic - I have read some of the posts about the mastic that is used to apply wall tile and I am a bit confused. I have been using the mapei type one professional grade floor and wall tile adhesive to apply kitchen backsplashes and tub surrounds (over top of hardibacker). Is this what you mean by mastic that shouldn't be used for tile application?
Well, I don't wanna upset your party, Lesley, but I sure wouldn't wanna have nothing more than that as a tiled balcony over my living space.
The usual recommendations are to start with a sloped joist structure and subfloor over that. Then you put a waterproof roof over that. Then you add some sort of drainage material (gravel covered with filter fabric, specialty plastic drain membrane, etc.), then a reinforced mud bed, then a thinset-friendly waterproof, isolation membrane, then your thinset and tile. It's a pretty involved procedure, but you end up with a waterproof floor you can walk on over a waterproof roof that doesn't actually get walked on.
I'm not sure what your structure looks like from your description (post inna middle of the room downstairs?). But it sounds like the joists aughta be running the 9' direction between supports, which should be fine so long as they are sloped adequately. If an Injineer says the rest of the equation is OK for a tiled floor structure, I guess it's OK with moi. :)
Here's a link (http://www.schluter.com/english/products/2002/pdf/balconybrochure.pdf) to Schluter's details and associated products for just your application. It will at least give you an idea what the layers of an adequate installation kinda look like. I couldn't find a similar detail on The Noble Company's (http://www.noblecompany.com/) web site, but I know they make applicable products and their tech people could probably give you some good advice.
There is really a lot of detail work that goes along with this kind of installation, too; flashings and adequate drains and such. Very important.
If you're gonna use that Protectowrap product for your secondary waterproofing, I'd sure wanna talk to that company and get their recommendations for its use in your application. I think what you've got now is inadequate - woefully inadequate - for a satisfactory installation over living space.
Also, are you in an geographic area subject to freeze/thaw conditions?
My opinion; worth price charged.
07-14-2006, 11:04 PM
The joist structure is sloped with a subfloor overtop. What I will end up with (hopefully) is a waterproof floor that I can walk on without the waterproof roof that doesn't get walked on. The space below the deck will be a workshop and yes the post in the middle of the room is not ideal but was necessary for the support structure. The joists do run in the 9" direction and there is no need for a drain since the deck all slopes one direction water will run into a gutter system. There is flashing all around the edge of the deck.
I have looked quite extensively at the Schluter diagrams which I think are great and I have looked at the noble deck too which was my original first choice. I have talked to the distributor of jiffyseal and have been assured this is the right product for what I want. What I really was looking for was anyone who has used this product already for some install tips and assurance I suppose that it is a good product. Thank you for your input although I am not quite as sure as I was before. I guess you have upset my party just a little bit!!
07-18-2006, 08:49 PM
protectowrap is a great product,i use it on my showers and decks.never had a problem ,if you need some advice just email me
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