Poor Ken Lay--He Might Die in Prison

[Scooter]

Well Ken Lay and his buddy Jeff Skilling were found guilty of a ton of offenses last week, and most of the charges are 5 to 20 year hitches. These two are, of course, the poster children of corporate excess greed and oil profits. The total cost to the citizens of the US are in the millions, and these are real live human beings who will be eating cat food.

Meanwhile Lay reportedly spent $60 million on four lawyers for the trial and lost on almost every count.

I personally think he ought to die in prison.

I start this thread because I can't imagine anyone feeling differently, but sometimes with this group, we have the odd opinion. Anyone want a pity party for Ken Lay?

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[jdm]

I feel almost as sorry for him as I did for his wife, crying that they had to sell all but one of their Aspen (or was it Vail?) houses to pay legal expenses.

Only one winter vacation house -- such a shame.

[John Bridge]

Well, there are no victory parties here in Houston, but I haven't heard anyone express pity, either. :)

the schooled consensus is they'll get somewhere in the vicinity of 17 years, and I don't know what effect our parole policies will have on that.

[jvcstone]

I figure the odds of a "presidential" pardon are pretty good. :goodluck:

JVC

[stonemason777]

Bedfellows! Bringing the ghetto uptown. Can you imagine how many lives they have impacted and ruined! Hang em high!

Would they be considered part of the "ME" generation?

[John Bridge]

Naw, you know I'm no fan of Georgie Boy Bush, but there will be nothing on the order of a presidential pardon. :)

[stonemason777]

In the real world.........................

[flatfloor]

I figure the odds of a "presidential" pardon are pretty good.

If Slick Willy were still in office chances would be 100%. He opened the cell door for some beauties. :nod:

[Scooter]

Were Clinton's pardon's any different than Bush's to date? Bush has had less, but the term is still young.

I do recall a convicted drug dealer being pardoned by Bush last year. He sold LSD to kids. Go figure.

I'm with John on this--I just can't imagine Bush pardoning these creeps. But he will have nothing to lose if he does--his popularity is lower than Clintons was during the impeachment. I have a hard time figuring that out.

I would predict Tom DeLay, Scooter Libby (what a stupid nickname, huh?) and Karl Rove getting pardons however. Political pardons are fairly common in Washington circles.

[jgleason]

I would predict Tom DeLay, Scooter Libby (what a stupid nickname, huh?) and Karl Rove getting pardons however. Political pardons are fairly common in Washington circles.

Can't pardon them until they are convicted. ;) Hell, Rove hasn't even been indicted for anything, yet.

I will agree, if these guys are convicted they will most likely benefit from a presidential pardon.

[Jeremy]

Look at the numbers of pardons requested, and the number given by some past presidents. Also check out the link at the top regarding Bush's cokehead daughter. She isnt as bad off as 'ol Jebs daughter though. The more a person learns about this "leader", the more sickening it becomes.



http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/december2005/221205bushpardons.htm

[jdm]

Joe --

Presidents can give blanket preemptive pardons as Ford did for Nixon.

Prevents a conviction from ever happening.

[jgleason]

Jeff,

I stand corrected. The limitation on the President's power to pardon is very narrow - no pardon for the impeached.

There are plenty of examples of bad pardons by various presidents to go around.

http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/pardons.htm

[Scooter]

Ken Lay announced today that he would pay his lawyer bills by writing a book on his recent experiences.

[Scooter]

Poor George.

He tried to distance himself from Ken Lay, practically denying that he ever met the man.

But then he forgot he wrote this letter.

[Scooter]

Probably the best thing for him, and preserves the bulk of his estate for the government to repay the thousands of victims the cents on the dollar that they will get.

Suppose the President will attend the funeral? They were close friends.

I say not.

[flatfloor]

Scooter give it a rest will you please? You know these guys sleep with anyone they think can help them. Democrat or Republican makes no never mind. :rolleyes:

[Scooter]

Well, I know for a fact that Ken Lay and Bush senior and Bush junior were extremely close friends. I don't think you can say the same about Ken Lay and either Bill Clinton or John Kerry.

And no, I won't give this a rest until the Billions (with a "B") are repaid by these criminals that preyed on Americans with the support and endorsement of GWB. You need to watch the documentary "The Smartest Guys in the Room" about Enron. Fascinating movie.

When the dough is repaid, I'll shut up.

[flatfloor]

Scooter you will use anything and everything you can to condemn the President. I'm surprised you haven't blamed the Indonesian Tsunami on him. You just plain blindly hate him.

I'm not blindly following him down the yellow brick road and disagree with him more than agree but there is a difference between hatred and disagreement.

[Scooter]

You know I take some offense at the idea that I am a demogoge. While it is true I dislike this President, I have voted Republican when the candidate suits me. I do believe he did the right thing in Afghanistan and the benefits for seniors, and I am sure there are other good things that he has done that I just can't think of right now.

But the President is a moron, spent money like a drunken sailor on a Friday night, got us involved in a no-win war for no reason than his personal ego and lied to the American people about it. Unlike other lies, his lies cost the deaths of a couple of thosand good American boys, and dismembered a couple thousand more. I don't know who will have the guts to get us out of these two crisis--budget and war--but it will take someone with some major huevos.

As for Enron, let me point just one fact, a fact I know. Governor Gray Davis investigated Enron and determined that it was manipulating Electrical prices (a fact we now know is true) and attempted to invoke the FEC to stop the practice. That Energy agency is controlled by President Bush who in the face of the known facts of manipulation, refused to stop the practice and actually tossed around the idea of nominating Ken Lay as its head.

Bush refused to act, in my judgment, to embarrass the Governor and elect Arnold, and to help his very good friend, Ken Lay. If you doubt the two men were close buddies, see post 6 and the letter attached. The fake Enron caused energy crisis went on for another 18 months. The total cost to California's residential customers was in the Billions, guy. Thats Billions with a "B".

So yes, I directly blame Shrub for this--not all of it--but 18 months worth. He could have stopped it--he had the facts--and failed to act to protect his buddy.

If you have different facts as to Shrub's involvement, I'd like to hear them.

I realize you're in NY and probably don't give a rats hindquarters about the misery and suffering of people in Texas and California, but the above incident is very true and well documented.

[flatfloor]

My grandchildren live in Ca. I care

Could the California distribution restructuring have had anything to do with it?
http://www.energy.ca.gov/restructuring/index.html

How about Orange county putting all their retirement eggs into the Enron basket?

Don't misunderstand me, Lay and his cohorts earned whatever they get and more but take some personal responsibility.

[Scooter]

The restructuring tied the utilities hands, as a quid pro quo for deregulation the utilities could buy and sell electricity wholesale without regulation (except by the FEC) but still had to sell at flat rates to consumers.

So utility companies, forced to buy wholesale at artificially high rates set by Enron, WITH THE SUPPORT OF PRESIDENT BUSH, then could only sell at flat rates to consumers. The result was they (the utilities) were squeezed from both ends, and went out of business and the state of California had to bail out the local and municipal utiltiies. Some companies were bailed out, some werent'. For those that wern't bailed out the high costs were passed on to the consumer, sometimes a 8 fold increase in the electrical bill. For the those that were bailed out, the State of California (the taxpayers) picked up the tab, usually at a lesser rate, like 6 fold, but pay we did.

Either way, Californians paid billions more in electricity charges than they had to. This wasn't the fault of anyone here, unless you are including President Bush and Ken Lay in the personal responsibility part of your post. If so, neither has.

Some woman was on Television last night--lost $1million dollars in her pension because she believed Ken Lay when he said buy, buy buy. While he was selling. Yes, some of the victims are morons. Of course they should have diversified.

But the electrical charges are down right criminal--and my point is this: Bush was told that it was happening--it was happening--and he ignored the problem. Why? I speculate to help his buddy or to elect Arnold.

And my bet is that Bush won't go to the funeral of his very close friend. Seems sorta sad, doesn't it?

[flatfloor]

Who the hell restructured it, the Canadians? :bang:

[Scooter]

Well the assumption was with deregulation, the wholesale prices would be LOWER. That was the sales pitch by the Enron types that lobbied Calfornia for restrucruing, and the power plants that supported it.

Had the prices actually gone down, as promised by the lobbists, everything would have been fine--and actually they did decrease for a year or so, and those savings were reaped by the power companies in the form of profits with no harm to the consumers.

Then Enron struck--by manipulating the electrical pricing (by taking Enron owned or controlled power stations off line) they artificially created a power shortage, then resold power to California at highway robbery prices.

Thats how the scam worked. Facilitated by your President, who chose to ignore the facts which have now been established, and Ken Lay whose employees at his direction, flipped the switch on California power plants, claiming they were down for "repairs". Then would suddently come on line to re-sell the same electricity but through Nevada, or Texas, back to California at 8 times the price.

Nice gig, huh?

[flatfloor]

I give up. :shake:

[Scooter]

Thats wise. Defending Ken Lay and our President's involvement in this crisis is not a winning argument. Its a no-win. I'd rather argue Swift Boats again.

[GraniteGirl]

No Scooter. Poor Flatfloor has given up on trying to get you to see the light.

[Eugenius]

I was born in Harris county, Houston.
We Texans are getting on with our lives...imagining, putting together our next fortune.
Fortunes won, fortunes lost,...thats the beauty and continuity of life...
at least here in Texas.

[jjwq8]

Since he popped his clogs isn't this discussion moot?
And since his sentencing was being heard by the Fifth Circuit, where criminal jeopardy does not attach until the sentence is being served he may now be presumed innocent since the process cannot in his case be completed. What price his heirs file suit to recover funds impounded?
Is there a shyster in the house?

[flatfloor]

That very well may happen. Should please Scooter no end. :stick:

[Scooter]

Well, I gotta give the guys credit. I figured they would run from the convicted scum bag Ken Lay and not soil their hands, but the following people attended his funeral today:

Former President George H. Bush

Former Secy of State James Baker

Convicted CEO Jeff Skilling

Houston Mayor Bob Lanier

I would not have the guts to attend, even if I knew the guy. I guess it takes a big heart and advanced spiritual development to have any sympathy for such a cold hearted crook and his family.

[GraniteGirl]

so you actually watched the funeral?!? :stick:

[flatfloor]

From a grassy knoll. :D