United 93

[Eugenius]

I went to see the movie yesterday, haltingly...Being self employed (or un-employed) I can do that. I went alone. I was worried about how I would behave emotionially. I went alone to see the 'Passion' for the same reason. Both are enshrined in history. ..but to 'home' in on 93...
first off, it's a great movie and I recommend it...
secondly, I didn't feel that there were any gut wrenching scenes, any overly gratuitous last minute sky fone calls, but i did find myself on several occasions grasping the retractable armrests in the almost empty stadium seating theatre, pulling myself forward and saying audibly to those hijackers, "You sons of bitches, you goddamned sons of bitches".
I think that was the final analysis of the passengers and why they rushed the cockpit. Go down fighting. God bless them and God bless America.
My gut was wrenched from me on Tuesday morning, September 11, 2001.
I have nothing to lose. I will go down fighting.
Go and enjoy the movie.

[Sponsored Links]

[Tool Guy - Kg]

Thanks for the review.

I've heard mixed emotions from the family & friends of all those who were lost and stopped to think about this subject in the last couple days. They certainly didn't ask to be tied to this piece of our history, but they are. There isn't an easy way to cut the ties. I do hope they see the greater good of the rest of the nation being exposed to this piece of U.S. history. :)

[Eugenius]

I researched the movie a bit before going and found that the co-pilots name was LeRoy Homer, a decorated Air Force vet and flight instructor. My bioligical daddy's name was LeRoy Bomer, a never do well shoe salesman that I didn't meet untill I was 31. So , the name LeRoy Homer, stuck in my mind. God bless him and his family for allowing the footage of him being stabbed in the cockpit and blood going everywhere.
It's called history.
It happened.

[Shaughnn]

Eugenius,
Remember, this film is not history. It is a dramatisation of historical events, only. We have some voice recordings from a very few select moments on that flight from which to extrapolate this film. While it may be engrossing and *feel* very real, it is as much non-fiction as Disney's "Pocahontas".
I have no desire to see the film, but then I also chose to watch none of the film footage from September 11th. We were all affected by those events and we all have different ways of overcoming those emotional challenges and of expressing our remorse and sympathies. Maybe this film will soothe some? Maybe it will just revive the furvor of others? And maybe it'll hold a spot on the shelves of Blockbuster for a while and then fade away into our collective memories?? I guess we'll see?
Shaughnn

[Eugenius]

I see that I referred to Leroy Homer's murder as "footage" when I should have referred to it as a 're-enactment'. Yet I still applaud his family and all the other victims families for their endorsement of the movie. Were that my son, daughter, mother, father, wife, husband or friend in the cockpit or cabin, it would be hard to watch, yet I would want the story told and retold. What happened on September 11, 2001 should not fade from our memory like last years' Superbowl.
True, the movie is at best an archealogical dig. Yet I'm sure you will agree with me that... that is how most of our history is unearthed.

[Shaughnn]

Eugenius,
I actually don't agree with you on your final point. The "9-11 Commission" was an archealogical dig and from it we have history which we can now look back on with some authority. The made-for-the-silver-screen adaptation of those events are not historically relevant at all. They are sentimentalisms at their best and patronizing kitsch at their worst.
I'm not saying that you are wrong to have found it relevent to *your* experience with the September 11th catastrophy. I'm just saying that it's a big mistake to equate our entertainment with our scholarship. It's also a big mistake to base credibility on emotional cues rather than investigative findings.
Shaughnn
PS: Mel Gibson choose ancient Aramaic for his film "The Passions of the Christ", not because it was historical but because by doing so it presumed historical authority. Religious scholars across the lines of faith all agree that Aramaic was not a language which Christ or his Disciples would have spoken. Does Mr. Gibson's choice deminish your own appreciation of his art? Probably not and it probably shouldn't. But Mr. Gibson chose to manipulate historical facts for artistic and commercial purposes, none-the-less. Is it entertainment or is it history now???

[Eugenius]

I was around when the Warren Commission disclosed their 'findings' and LBJ sealed the report for 75 years. Politics and truth are strange bedfellows.
That's another dusty, forgotten page of our history.
My reference to archeaology, Shaugnn, was just that. So much of what we 'know' of our past is not what what we 'know' yet it's what we discover. So it is with the Ming Dynasty, the Romans, the Aztecs, the Mayans, the Pharaohs, the Anazasi and the list goes on seemingly forever. Scholars and assistants dig painstakingly through the rubble of civilization to discover,
re-create and inform us to the best of their ability what happened...
that's called history. Similarly, that's what happened in a field near Shanksville, Pa. where United 93 went down. As in archeology, there were no living voices to declare what happened. It was up to those digging through the rubble to piece together the past. That is called history.

[Shaughnn]

Eugenius,
What we know about the final days of Pompeii we've gained from archaeological discovery and analysis. What we know about the happenings on the United 93 flight we know through forensic science. The film "United 93" is pure theater and is as relevant to our national or even our human history as James Cameron's "Titanic" is to the shipping industry. That's really the only point I'm laboring here. :)
Shaughnn

[Eugenius]

about beer and the fact that God loves us.

[John Bridge]

Where in the hell is Josephine, TX, and what's your first name? :)

[Shaughnn]

John,
Josephine is about 20 miles East of Plano. Google still doesn't know Eugenius' first name though. :D
Shaughnn

[Eugenius]

Josephine is 7 miles north of Royse City which is 31 miles east of Dallas on I-30. My first name is Douglas. My friends call me Doug. Please call me Doug.

[John Bridge]

It's a pleasure, Doug. :)

[Davestone]

Well, we know enough to know that terrorists took the plane,held hostages,did not treat people as they would be treated, and passengers tried to take back the plane, and it crashed,that in itself is enough to have me clutching the armrest,and gnashing my teeth.Hollywood need not add anything in between ,for me.I haven't seen the movie, and am not ready to, yet,i also haven't seen Passion of The Christ,and probably won't,,,i'm not religious...and i prefer the ones where the good guy wins. :tup2:

[Tool Guy - Kg]

Dave,
In The Passion, the good guy does win. :)

[Davestone]

Oh. :crap: :D

[Eugenius]

In the 'Passion', or the re-enactment of the historical event, all humanity won. It was like a winning 'Power Ball' ticket was handed out to every human being on the face of the earth and the funds are there to pay out. It's up to each individual though to either cash it in and laugh all the way to 'Heaven's Bank' or say, "this is probably 'bs' , tear it up and throw it in the street.

In 'United 93' the good guys won, also. The takeoff was delayed in Newark for 30 minutes due to heavy traffic, 15 planes in front of them on the tarmac.
If not for that, passengers making 'SkyFone' and cellular calls to loved ones would not have known that 3 hijacked planes had already hit their targets. Realizing that they were on a suicide mission, the passengers banded together, formulated a plan to either regain control of the plane or take it down, which they did. A fight ensued, and the plane did not reach it's target. No additional lives were lost. The passengers behaved like our military.

[doitright]

Hi Kurt :)

I have to agree, but that's just putting it lightly! :tup2:

[jvcstone]

about airplanes flying into buildings:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...20890224991194

About an hour long, but great "conspiracy" footage

JVC

TRY this: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5137581991288263801

[stonemason777]

Let's roll!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[MHI]

I believe in the possibility that United 93 was shot down by F-16s. Despite the heroic attempts of the passengers, witnesses saw the plane come straight down in pieces.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=30682

I think the movie is an attempt to cover up what really happened.

I also think that man has yet to step foot on the moon, and that was a movie also.:)

[Eugenius]

I never met the sperm and egg donor ,
nevertheless, I think. Therefore I am. Ergo, ergo sum. Git' r done.

[6yrslater]

My name is Chris and I enjoy your tile forums and decided to check this one out as I love history and as my friends would say a good debate and can be a stickler for facts. By the way I'm still tiling my master bath and should really change my login to 7yrslater!

Though I'm a little late to this discussion I'd like to posting the following in response to Shaughnn's 5.4 posting when he stated in part that "Religious scholars across the lines of faith all agree that Aramaic was not a language which Christ or his Disciples would have spoken." I'm not sure who those experts and would like read their opinions as this lanaguage is of interest to me. I quickly found a couple that disagree.

What's amazing is that 2000 years and not much in the Middle East has changed.

Back then as now in a small region like the middle east with wars, slavery then /mobile workforces now (slavery still exists in some places) and trade, a single language would not be the sole one for an area or even a people.

Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic (none of them in their currrently spoken form) existed side by side and were used by various peoples in various circumstances. I now this multi-language situation to be true now since in many of the members of my church and ethnic groups were born in the Middle East & those can speak a minimum of 2 languages in most cases and can converse in sometimes up to 7 - my own grandfather spoke fluently in - Turkish, Arabic, Armenian, some French, then English when he came to the US.

As far as in Jesus' time here's at least one experts opinion "So was Aramaic the language of Jesus? It certainly was one of the languages of Jesus. But under what circumstances it was used, and exactly what form of Aramaic, are questions open to debate."

Taken from an ABC news interview with Ian Young, who teaches Aramaic in the Department of Hebrew, Biblical and Jewish Studies at the University of Sydney. Here is the full link -

Also the following from a Duke University article -

In a session on "What language did Jesus speak?" the three co-instructors agreed that archeological evidence, surviving manuscripts and Jesus' 18 Aramaic words recorded in the New Testament indicate that Jesus, indeed, spoke Aramaic. But they took issue with the particular dialect of Aramaic chosen for Gibson's movie, Syriac, because it likely emerged in Christian communities in Syria after the time of Christ.

The way the dialect was rendered in the movie also drew criticism. "It's not Syriac!" Van Rompay exclaimed about the accuracy of the language presented in the movie. For example, said Van Rompay, who specializes in the dialect, Gibson's Jesus character uses the Hebrew word for "covenant," not the Syriac one.

Flesher, who had previously interviewed the movie's language consultant, explained that Hebrew or Arabic words were occasionally used to approximate Syriac Aramaic ones.

Van Rompay was unimpressed. "None of these actors," he said earlier, "not even Jesus himself [in the movie], would have passed my Aramaic exam."

[Shaughnn]

Hi Chris,
My comment about scholars agreeing that Jesus didn't speak Aramaic was based on a number of interviews and penel discussions which I've listened to, where this question arose and was unanimously discredited by the otherwise divided speakers. This was especially true immediately after Mel Gibson's movie came out, when everybody who fancied themselves a "coffee shop prophet" called into these sorts of discussions on the radio to boast of their biblical "knowledge".
I wish I could recall which speakers these were or the exact details they cited, but I am all across the radio dial when I'm working and I'll often tune into to religious discussions if they seem sincere, and not just bombastic garbage.
Hope that helped?,
Shaughnn