Iredescent Glass Tile , Efforecence problem??

[RexModeling]

hello guys how was coverings , i bet it was great , i wanted to go but u know bussinnes is first, today i went to a customers house , he had sicis iridecent glass tile installed in his pool , and it has a lot of haze , it seems to me that is efforecence , they tried every product on earth triyng to remove it but it just wont come out , here im gonna post a couple picutres , they want to remove it and re do it , any suggestions if its a efforecence problem or other. THANKS.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/rexmods/0000115.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/rexmods/0000117.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/rexmods/0000116.jpg

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[doitright]

Hi Rex :)

The show was great! I put business first, so that's why I attended. :yeah:

(Thanks for asking!)

Your pictures seem to indicate that the surface is clean. Is this a part of a waterfall system? Do you know how the tiles were bonded? Does anything sound hollow? What products were used for the cleaning attempts?

[scott anthony]

Call the Sure Clean rep on this, they have awesome cleaners that should take care of that. No promises but it's good stuff man. The concrete supply yards carry it.

[RexModeling]

my name is rex by the way , the tile are perfectly bonded , they used white thinset , no idea if it was modified or not, for grout they used sanded grout , the owners used muriatic acid , steel wool , grout haze remover , preshure washer machine , nothing works , now i dont know it any of those products made things worrse or not

[doitright]

Hi Rex :)

You didn't indicate whether the surface was clean or not.

I would never have used a muriatic acid for cleaning. I think the irridescent glass tiles are very sensitive. I would contact Sicis and Prosoco (manufacturer of SureKleen).

[RexModeling]

yes the surface was clean , u clean it , and the haze seems to go a bit but as soon as it dries , it comes again , tried to scrape a little , almost iimposible.

[doitright]

I personally think the surface of the tile is damaged. If you have any Aqua Mix Enrich 'n Seal, try a TEST in a small area, and see if it will darken.

I've been searching for Sicis glass tiles, and could only come up with retailers. Do yo by chance have any info on them?

[michaelhazuka]

is it cement-based or epoxy???

[RexModeling]

its cement based, im sending an email to prosoco , thanks guy for the fast reponse , i really appreciate it

[RexModeling]

john if i try the enrich n seal , and it darkens , that means that the tile isnt damaged??

[Davestone]

I,ve used surekleen, and steel wool on some irridescent glass once to see if i could hurt it, and i didn't, but that doesn't mean much.I wonder if the pool is using bromide, chlorine, or one of the salt solutions as a disinfectant?I would guess the facing of the glass is etched off somehow,but i don't know how, myself,and if that many cleaning products were used, it surely damaged it further,but i've never seen this problem myself.Five guys posted while i was typing!Slow Down! :yeah:

[doitright]

Hi Rex :)

No, it just means you may have a solution to cure the problem. You didn't tell us if this area has a continuous flow of water running over it. :shades:

[RexModeling]

yes it has a water fall on top , and theres a border that goes all around the pool , 1/2 is under water and the other half isnt

[doitright]

It almost appears that the lightness exists in the tiles that weren't constantly emerged.

[michaelhazuka]

muriatic acid didn't take the residue off the tile??? What dilution of acid??? Did it damage any of the stainless steel around the pool???

Muriatic acid with STP, (sodium tri-polyphosphate:a neutralizer to help prevent the etching of the stainless in the pool) should take any of the cement-based residue off the face of the tile, but extreme care should be taken so that none of the metal in the pool comes into contact with muriatic acid(in liquid or vapor form).

The chemicals in the pool (HCl and Bromine) should have taken any of the residue off as well though.....tough call.
Don't know....

[John Bridge]

Steel wool? I don't like that. How do we know what gauge was used? Could have been course. That would cause the hazy look. I would never use steel wool on glass tiles.

[michaelhazuka]

Problem I see is that an identical haze exists on the largest fountain accent(picture 1)....look on the over-spill spout.

Looks like a similar haze on that spout(and on the underside of that accent{pic 3} feature) as what is on the surface of the tile.....

Can salt deposits be a culprit....hard water in the pool possibly???

[flsandman]

Rex sent my wife and I this link to this discussion. I wanted to clarify a few issues in hopes that it will help all of you determine the cause of the problem. Firstly, we have tried almost every chemical "cocktails" imaginable including Muriatic Acid. Every area we tested was about 6 square inches, never larger and if it looked like it was helping we would try another area slightly larger. But we never treated an area much larger than our hand. The Muriatic Acid we used was 31.45%. It was brushed on with a paint brush, left standing on the tile for about a half hour and then applied again in hopes that it would break down and soften the scaling, it didn't. It's a chemical we use to add to the water to raise the ph. It is also used heavily after the pool was Diamond Brighted (which was the same time the tile was installed ). The same goes for the synthetic medium course Steel Wool, small area. Essentially there was no difference after any treatments.

A few other comments; there are a number of places where the tile is under water and there is no damage, it looks as good as the day it was installed. Even along the waterline which is above the low tile mark is fine. If you notice the pictures, you will notice that the scaling is not as great in the path of the waterfall where water is more frequently flowing over the surface. The buildup is almost like scales on a fish. If I were to take a flat razor knife or chisel and a lot of muscle power I could scrape the scale off the surface but I would probably cause more damage than it would be worth. The original installer used the same product for embedding the tile and grout. We also had installed at the time clay brick coping around the edge of the pool and they used regular cement. Concerning cheimcals I use in the pool, I shock the pool every two weeks with non-chlorinated shock and I have an automatic chlorine dispensor that keeps the chlorination at a constant level of 6.5. Other than that I use baking sode or Muriatic Acid once in a while to tweak the ph if necessary.

Lastly, concerning hard water. We have a Rainsoft water treatment system and all water that goes into the pool is filtered through that system and the water is tested frequently to make sure it is balanced, therefore my thoughts are not in this direction.

Thanks again for all your input ...

[John Bridge]

Thanks, Sandman. I'm going to move this to the Cleaning and Restoration forum. Got some pretty smart cookies hanging around there. You'll find it. :)

[GMRTools]

You may want to take a look at the Aqua Mix Eff-Ex. This has been a reliable product for removing efflorescence. I would suggest a call to Aqua Mix as well @ 877-278-2311 to discuss it with them.

The link to this product is http://www.aquamix.com/for_professionals/products/pg_detail.asp?pdid=44126&pgid=9833

Hope this helps!

Kevin Jr
GMR Quality Stone Products

[bwwisland]

I joined the forum tonight to get in touch with RexModeling. I own a pool with irridescent sicis glass tile & am experiencing similar problems with a white chalky substance. Like you mention, nothing is working to restore this tile to it's original shiny gorgeous look. Did you find a chemical or process to fix this problem. I am desperate for an answer. Thank you so much.

[Davestone]

This thread is three years old,so don't expect much of a response from them.But have you tried the methods mentioned?Can you post a pic?I know iridescent glass can be made by applying muriatic acid and stannous chloride.or pot metals with umpurities and refiring the glass.I think this produces a pitted surface and would cause it to collect effloresence and minerals and impurities making it tough to clean off.

[bwwisland]

Thank you for the reply. I've tried a pumice stone (which is great for the heavy white by the waterfall), but nothing has worked for the waterline tile haze. It is beautiful when wet, and then upon evaporation each tile has a hazy white residue that magically appears as soon as the tile is dry. I've tried PowerBlue (which at first really fizzed, but then didn't on later cleanings so I believe the build up that kicks is gone). And I've tried sulfuric acid diluted.

See the pics and note by the corner how those are quite white cloudy (pic #1). Pic #2 shows a sheet of original tile (gorgeous) laying on top of the spa spill over - it seems to have lost it's beauty, but the sicis company insists that the irredescents is baked throughout & cannot be "lost." Pic #3 shows the waterfall front on angle and you can see that from certain angles the tile is still shiny (almost an optical illusion). Pic #4 shows the outside of the raised hot tub which never touched pool water and is still perfect. Pic #5 is the front view of the spa waterfall wall.

I fear another optical illusion is that my chambray (dark blue) laticrete spectralock grout has faded in 2 years (considerably). I paid a lot of money for this grout and hired someone to install it outside of my pool company's normal practice. Laticrete is offering a color stain to get this back to it's original color - have you heard of that use in a pool area? I just want to be sure we aren't creating more problems. The grout is gorgeous when WET, so maybe I should look into having it sealed with something that will darken it. Please advise on this as well. So much white grout really changes the appearance of my solid blue wall and tile line (the very reason I went with the blue laticrete grout). Thank you for your thoughts on this!

(All under-water tile and grout look great still & the tile and grout outside the hot tub where water never hits is perfect as well).

[bwwisland]

Pictures of the full pool are shown so you can see the amount of tile we're speaking of.

And 2 pictures are shown when the pool was new and the tile was soooo shiny and reflective. We NEVER see this anymore - it looks like old bathroom tile with no shine (even in the same sunlight).

[bwwisland]

Sorry - one more notation - the reference I made: "And I've tried sulfuric acid diluted." Was a spot test in one very small area in a corner - it didn't budge the white residue. I did not use this on all the tile.

Thanks,
Bwwisland