Something to think about.. [Archive] - Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile

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Scottish Tile and Stone
03-02-2006, 04:58 PM
This is what pisses me off.. Look at the compensation..








We Need tiles man, Framers, drywalls man and marble installers.
Nesesitamos Marmoleros, Carpinteros de metales, y terminadores
Marblecountertops@juno.com
cgbhighendfinishing@adelphia.net
786 399 3575 live mesage.


Job location is NE / FL

Compensation: $150 /day & Room

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kevjob
03-02-2006, 05:00 PM
call him and tell him. :devil:

Jeremy
03-02-2006, 05:01 PM
Thats almost $20 per hour... What are Journeyman wages in your area?

Scottish Tile and Stone
03-02-2006, 05:08 PM
Not sure what journeyman wages are. Im not union.

I dont know of any tile setter that can make a living at $150 a day. Unless they are working 15 hour days.

customceramicsllc
03-02-2006, 05:14 PM
is this a reference to illegal immigrants? :scratch:

BeachTile
03-02-2006, 05:15 PM
NE Florida is slowly being inundated with people that will work for that wage + room. And yes, they probably are working 12 + hours a day.

Scottish Tile and Stone
03-02-2006, 05:16 PM
Not sure, I just stumbled on the ad. Seeing how some of its in spanish and their english spelling isnt the greatest. I would say yes.

Scottish Tile and Stone
03-02-2006, 05:17 PM
Just think of what the contractor is making. bidding work by the foot, and paying by the hour..Cha ching

1Eric
03-02-2006, 05:37 PM
I just lost a subdivision to someone working by the hour. 50 houses! (not an immigrant btw) I've done work for this builder for about 4 years until he teamed up with a realtor. Guys a jack of all trades master of none. They're buying everything at prosource and paying this guy by the hour.

Melsbells
03-02-2006, 06:30 PM
That's ok, Eric, think of it this way, the people that hire the folks that do the job wrong the first time will call you next time. I just got offered a tile job from a client who had an entire large patio done outside and within 2 years the wood rotted underneath because the first person tiled over the plywood without a waterproof membrane, OUTside. Now all that tile will have to be ripped up, and a whole new patio redone. The guy was really unimpressed with having to pay for the same work all over again in just two years. I am finding that you have to pretty much scare customers into wanting the work done right the first time, instead of focusing on the cheap aspect. I am just starting out in this business, and there are 45,000 legal contractors here not to mention about another 20,000 unlicensed. The competition is crazy, but I communicate well, and have been referred to most of my clients by a previous one.

Scottish Tile and Stone
03-02-2006, 06:54 PM
Eric, they are doing the same thing around here.

tileguynky
03-02-2006, 07:40 PM
Eric, same thing here. GCs are no longer concerned with quality and a job done right. Just want it done the cheapest way now. I was doing track homes for a builder. Tile in Kitchen, entrance, laundry, and 2 bathrooms all on a slab. There was about 370 sf. I would start at 7 am and have all the tile installed by 6 pm. I work by myself so it was a day of humping. Couple hours next day to grout. First house, he was shocked. Said the last tile guy took 5 days to install and two to grout. He was happy impressed with the quaility of the work. I did about one house a month for him. (He does not build in huge quantity, just builds in those subdivisions.) Around December did not hear from him. Nothing in January either. Drove through the subdivision and looked at a house he was building. Somebody else doing the tile. Found out he is paying his general labor guy ($8 an hour) to install his tile. All I can say is his work is crap, at best. Oh well.

Hamilton
03-02-2006, 09:14 PM
In my own opinion its the GC's who are the greediest. i know we got some
on the boards and im gonna step on a few toes but i dont really care. All
i have ever come across are these cheap bastards trying to line their pocket
with the most coin they can. I do good work, its oldschool and its done right
in an efficient manner. Ive got to compete with hacks doing work for half my
price with half the quality. This forces me out of new construction and into
remodel and for what its worth im perfectly fine with my situation. Id rather
sleep at night knowing i did a great job for a family who has taken me in as
one of their own vs doing some lick n stick BS that will come back to bite
me in the ass when the job fails.

Levi the Tile Guy
03-02-2006, 09:31 PM
I think some GC are definately cheap, but I also think that the quality of the house has a lot to do with it. For example I couldn't compete in track homes or spec houses. That's where hacks can chop prices and the quality of work shows. You get into some of the big dollar custom homes though and I know that GC's or most of em still care about quality. They have too. They sell million dollar+ homes and do have homeowners that have expectations.
I also know a lot of GC's that want me to make more money because they in turn make more. They get paid cost +10 or 15% so the more the job costs the more they make.

rddrappo
03-02-2006, 09:48 PM
Levi,

I got a GC doing the same to me right now. He wants me to rip off people so his cut is more. These folks hire him and he hires subs and they pay what he says it's gonna cost. I told him I'll give him bids and he can charge what he wants and keep the difference. I have to be able to live with myself. I also don't do track houses, just remodels, and once in a while a new house, but I can't compete with the guys who use mastic on greenboard and call it a shower. Just look at it this way - you may lose work, but won't lose any sleep over it. :tup1:

Levi the Tile Guy
03-02-2006, 10:27 PM
exactly

alienofwar
03-03-2006, 12:24 AM
Different world where I come from here in Canada.. All I do is new construction. I do remodel once in awhile. I charge very competetive rates but Im aware of my competetors charging top dollar for their work. I dunno, I guess because we don't have all the cheap foreign labour up here, it's not really a problem. You see mostly middle aged white guys doing the work here. Not many young guys like me on the jobsites, no one my age wants to do the work. When I was working in Nevada...wow, much different story. Tons of young guys...who couldn't speak my language!

Jeremy
03-03-2006, 06:40 AM
Well dammit, I was figgerin that $150 was based on an 8 hr day... If its based on a 12 hr day then someone is working for peanuts. I think 150 per day is a good wage for a decent helper who can go off without someone holding his hand. I will check back in later, I have some painting to do. :clap2:

Ron
03-05-2006, 02:31 PM
Yeah,but who says that their work is bad?

I've seen many new immigrants from various countries here in Toronto who are excellent at what they do.And many of them have better work ethics and more ambition than the resident tradesmen here.

Also ...$150 per day including accommodation doesn't sound too bad as a starting wage.Consider that you are a new immigrant,you work 6 days a week,$900...no rent to pay for a while.Enough money left for a sizeable money remittance to send to your family.Great! :)

Scottish Tile and Stone
03-05-2006, 02:35 PM
Ron, might be a bit different in toronto. Do they pay taxes? I am willing to bet most of them here dont. Thats where the problem is. They arent paying any taxes, but are getting support for their kids going to school, doctor etc... They end up living better than some of us..

John Bridge
03-05-2006, 05:17 PM
Ain't no illegal worker gonna live better than I do. I won't allow it. Just won't allow it, I tell ya. :D

Unless you're in the Union, it's the same old supply and demand. You've just got to be better than the rest. That's never going to change.

jbcremodel
03-05-2006, 05:23 PM
Very well stated, John. Even w/ the Texas accent. Couldn't agree more.
Jesse

scott anthony
03-05-2006, 05:47 PM
It is this reason I no longer do new construction. All my work is for people need to be able to understand it when I tell them, you picked the wrong color grout, and take that tile back it's garbage :yeah: But I must say for FL 150 is not bad it's just they are doing the 12 hr days. I have seen much worse, I know it because it's all around me. And like John boy said, there's only one way to separate yourself. Gotta go My turn to give the dog a bath .

Scottish Tile and Stone
03-05-2006, 08:01 PM
Doesnt matter how good you are, if they are only looking at whats its costing, versus what they are getting.. We lose.. For some reason, alot of folks around here, only look at the dollar amount. Until its too late.

1Eric
03-05-2006, 08:59 PM
Most of my work comes from a retailer right now. I have walked onto other people's jobs for the same retailer and seen no preslopes, no taping of joints, no thinset under cbu, you name it I have seeen them do it. On new construction the gc's are questioning me as to what i am doing when I am putting in a preslope, or waterproofing, or thinsetting before I put down cbu. I am getting paid the same as these hacks. It gets frustrating. On the flipside I am busier than those other guys with referalls and the retailer. (6 weeks without a day off) :crazy: . People know quality when they see it. Got my fishing license yesterday, I think I need a day off.

Scottish Tile and Stone
03-05-2006, 09:05 PM
They know quality when then want quality. When the want price. quality goes out the window.

1Eric
03-05-2006, 09:13 PM
Point taken. But those people are the people you don't want to do business with anyway. They want perfection for nothing :shake: .

Remodeler
03-05-2006, 09:22 PM
Hey guys you just have to sell that you're doing things right, and the shower you put in will be worry free forever. Your not going to sell the guy who's only concerned about price, because he's either selling the home or he's building it for someone else. And even a shower done with mastic will last a year and that' all new home builders are concerned with. I just figure since I'm in the Remodel business, let them do their crappy work, as long as they do I'll have plenty of work to do. :yipee: Unless something is done about imigration you can complain till you're blue but it's not going to change a thing. And when politicians start to talk about it, they're labeled racist. You can't win. :bang:

Mike

1Eric
03-05-2006, 09:40 PM
Like I said....


But it's not just immigrants. truck and a tool box and your qualified.

Levi the Tile Guy
03-05-2006, 09:54 PM
There are always gonna be illegals and hacks in the trade period. But there are always gonna be people who do want a quality job.
As far as I'm concerned (no offence to the old timers) but I think that the quality of work is as good if not better than stuff that has been done years ago. We have new products and materials now that make a better job more affordable for people. I have seen a lot of good work out there that was done years ago, but I have also seen some horrable work that was done a long time ago. As long as we as proffesionals keep putting out quality work, we will continue to have work. The hacks will always be around, and so will the people that use em, but like I said there will still always be people that want good work.