Rookie question: Cleaner for Dirty Black grout

[Almaden]

I've been following the discussions on this site, and think you guys are great.

So ... I need some advice on my first grout job.

Yesterday, I put in some sanded grout on 1/4-inch joint between ceramic tiles in the dining room. I applied the techniques that I learned from picking people's brains, and from reading this forum.

Today, after re-inspection and misting, I found a couple of joints where the height of the grout is higher than the tile. These joints are not as "recessed" betwn the tiles as joints in other parts of house.

Can I simply just use some sandpaper to file away the excess height ? How can I get the grout to be level with the tile ?

Also, what do I do during next couple days to make sure that I complete this job correctly ... ie, to make sure the grout is cured and does not flake off ?

I'm planning on misting the grout for a couple days, then sealing. Anything else I should do ? What should I be watching out for ?

Please flood me with guidance. I'm a kid (college student) trying to help my uncle get his house fixed during Christmas break.

Thanks,

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[Rd Tile]

Sandpaper won't do much, except maybe scratch the tile, this should have been taken care off when grouting, tooling the joints with the sponge, in any case, take a small thin screwdriver ans carefully scratch the grout down to where you want it, don't touch the tile.:)

The grout will cure fine if placed and packed in the joints correctly, wait a week before sealing.:)

[scott anthony]

OK to start misting is not that important, I can' think of one job that's gone bad due to not misting. Your grout should mixed like the directions states, some are just a bit different. The whole trick in grouting is to have everything ready before you spread, I hope you know what referring to. Don't spread more than you can clean up in 40 minutes. First i do what I call a circle sponge I take a 20 foot area or so and in a circle pattern lightly wipe the lines into a nice neat even. This will also help with the air bubbles that you may find hard to avoid. After the circle sponge go back over it with a 12" or so swipe leaving the grout just barley below the surface of the tile. I could go on but Must split. Sorry, others will give you some pointers also. Oh and you can only get one swipe per each side of the sponge and you MUST rinse.
gl

[Almaden]

Cool, Thanks for quick response.

So, avoid sandpaper and instead use small screwdriver, right ?
Should I use the scredriver like right now (within 24-36 hrs after grouting) ? Or should I wait ?

I'm worried about disturbing the grout that I put in yesterday.

And, don't have to stress out regarding the misting, right ? I did all of the wiping yesterday, one swipe per side of sponge then rinse. Still wondwering if I missed anyting, and what else I need to do to get it right.

[Rd Tile]

The longer you wait, the harder it gets, don't dig in, just lightly scrape away what you need, add pressure as needed.:)

[Mike2]

Hey Don, glad to have you with us. ;)

If this is your first grout job you most likely don't have a grout saw so I'd try Richie's (RD's) screwdriver suggestion first. The grout should still be soft enough to scratch out quite easily. And yes, I'd do it now. Just go easy so as not to disturb the "good" grout lines.

If on the other hand that doesn't work well for you try to pick up an inexpensive grout saw tomorrow. You should find one wherever tiling supplies are sold including the big box stores. They have a carbide burr blade and can do a number on even fully cured grout very quickly. They can also scratch tiles very quickly if you aren't careful.

[Almaden]

OK, I just went at it a few mins ago w small screwdriver. Was able to re-shape a few joints. I did, however, find one piece of grout that flaked off. It was an "uh oh" moment. Flake was 1/8 inch long. Should I be worried ? ... or am I getting too concnered about trivial stuff ?

[DonB]

Hi Don,

A quick, safe way to at least bring the grout level down to the level of the tiles is use a margin trowel or putty knife. You also may want to get after it with a really stiff acid brush and a solution of glycolic acid, followed by a good bath. This works well with no damage to the surface texture of the grout and may round it down a little bit for you. I did it recently when I found too much goop left in the cushioned edges but it was within 16 hours of the grout job. Also, with a ¼" joint, you have room to do a lot of work with sandpaper. Just stay away from the tiles but if they're a moh of 8 or 9, you shouldn't have much of a problem.

Don

[Almaden]

I saw a bunch of options at Home Depot:

1. AquaMix. There are several different types of these.
2. Impregnator Pro
3. TileLab (I think that's Home Depot's inhouse brand)

Which should I use ?

Sealing the grout ... that's my next task. My homework for tomorrow is to find the best sealant. Goal is to seal by end of the week.

What is best way to apply ? At Home Depot, I saw a little bottle with a brush at the end. Bottle is size of a contact lens solution bottle. Is ths the right way to go ?

[Rd Tile]

The Aquamix and Stonetech sealers both work fine, Yes, pour it in that bottle you saw, now paint it on the joints and wipe any excess that gets on the tile, you don't want any sealer drying on glazed tile, seal and wipe as you go, wait a week for the grout to cure, I wouldn't be acid washing it just for a few high spots.:)

[Almaden]

Which particular AquaMix ?
There are like 2-3 different versions. I was thinkin of getting the Professional version. Or is there a more basic version ?

thanks for your help.

[Mike2]

Personally I'd choose Aqua Mix Sealer's Choice 15 Gold myself. Or if they carry StoneTech Pro products, look for All Purpose Grout Sealer. Actually both are good products and I really couldn't put one before the other.

[alygal]

Heh heh, I just finished my first grout job too and now I see only grout lines. :shake:

I used Mapei Keracolor S "Mist" grout for a bath/shower surround and followed instructions though I found the grout mix a bit stiff and had to add just a smidge more water to make it the creamy peanut-butter consistancy.
I used this for white subway tiles with black pencil liner and black bullnose edges.

I really got into working those joints as I went along. I didn't have the fancy tools but I found a small dental tool used for picking food out of braces worked great. It is like a small curved toothpick: plastic handle with metal pick. It is great for taking off those small 'tags' of grout.

I also had a clear plastic ruler that I used. I also found a plastic tab that is ofen found on socks at the shops. It's used to hook socks on a rack. Well I found it worked great on tidying up grout joints where the grout had 'overshot' the joint and bled over onto the tile.

I worked with a pretty small section each time as I found that the grout was setting up more quickly then the instructions suggested. Based on my first back wall, I did the rest of the project in 3'x3' sections. As I waited for the next section to set up, I went back to the previous section and did the tidying' up of the joints. Gotta say I got really focused on it and found it kind of fun (for a one-off project that is!).

Now I don't know if this was wrong but in addition to using a float I also used my gloved finger. I wanted to make sure that grout was going in so after spreading the grout with the float every which way, I went back and used my fingers to smooth the surface of the grout.

So far so good and I'm waiting to see if any little air bubbles pop. I'll wait a few days and then seal.

Just wanted to say that when you're stuck in a grout jam at home there are things around you can use. Heck I even found that used toilet paper rolls came in handy! :yeah:

[Almaden]

I put in the grout last Sat Dec 10.
When is earliest date that I should apply the sealant ?
I was thinking of this coming Friday Dec 16. Is that too early ? Or should I wait till like Sun Dec 18 ?

Also, today, I found a couple of grout lines that seemed "chalky" or "dusty". I can feel some grains of sand when I run my finger gently over these lines. Not all the grout lines are like this, just a few. Should I be concerned about this condition ?

If it is a prob, then what should I do next ?

[Almaden]

Alygal,
I hear you. I spent weeks doing research before plunging into the grout job. Prepared for it like I was prepping for exam at school. My uncle told me that I over-prepared.

Anyhow, for the past 3-4 days, all I've been thinking about is grout ! Everywhere I went, I saw only groutlines. I thought I was haallucinating.

[Almaden]

After I apply the sealant to the grout lines, how long does it take for the sealant to "take effect" ?

Also, if I apply the sealant at say 11pm, can I walk on the tiles at 8am the next morning ?

Finally, will there be any damage if I apply the sealant 6-7 days after installing the grout ? Or should I wait like maybe 10 days ?

Pls advise

THanks

[MarcusEngley]

Hi Don,

Not a pro, but I hear 'round these parts that 10 days is a good time to wait before sealing. More can't hurt. Can't speak to the walking-on-tiles bit...

[Mike2]

Don, you can use Aqua Mix Sealer's Choice or StoneTech Grout Sealer 72 hours after grouting. If you want to wait longer, no prob. Use two coats with an hour dry time between each one. Resume normal traffic in one hour.

[MarcusEngley]

See Don? That's the kind of informed answer you get from someone who's brain isn't filled with fluff. :drool2:

[DonB]

I seal earlier rather than later. Better to push it on the front end, per package directions, rather than take a chance someone will drop a cup of coffee on new grout and stain it.

Don

[Almaden]

You dudes are great ! You're really helping out a first-time DIY kid.

OK, will apply sealant on this Fri night. That's 6 days after grouting. 2 coats with 1 hour in betwn each coat. Darn, no frat party on Fri night.

Then will allow traffic on Sat morning. Grandparents coming over.

Last night, I found a couple of grout lines that seem "chalky". When I run my finger over these grout lines, some of the particles come off. Will the sealant take care of this ?

[Mike2]

No, sealer won't cure any of that. I'd try using a mixture of 50:50 white vinegar and water on just one of those areas first. Apply, let it dwell for 10 minutes or so then scrub lightly with a soft brush. Something like an old tooth brush will work. Rinse with clean water and let dry. Report back what you find.

[Almaden]

Is this stuff any good ?
how does it compare to AquaMix ?

The fella at Home Depot told me that AquaMix has more water content and 511 Impregnator has more oil content. Which is more prefered ... higher water content or higher oil content ?

Also, about the 50-50 vinegar & water mix suggested, will it cause the gray grout to turn black ?

In my uncle's house, there's another room where some of the existing gray grout has turned to black (charcoal-like color). What causes this color change ?

[Almaden]

Mike2

I did what you suggested w 50.50 vinegar water onto a small area (6 inch length of grout line), then sit for 10 mins, then brush, followed by rinse w clean water. Am currently letting it dry. Will be interested to see result in morning.

My initial observation after applying the 50 /50 vinegar water mix: The gray grout line turned dark.

Is that normal or expected ?
What causes this color change ?

I got a little nervous when seeing this color change from gray to dark gray, because there's another room in the house where some of the gray grout has turned into charcoal-like black and has cracked.

Am I being overly concerned ?
Pls advise.

Thanks

[Almaden]

Inspection this morning showed a reduced amount of "chalki-ness" on area treated w 50/50 mix.

Being rather technically limited, here are some really basic possbly dumb questions.

1. Can somebody explain to me the benefits of this 50/50 mix ?
2. Does the 50/50 mix cause the grout to "harden" ?
3. Does the 50/50 mix prevent future cracking ?

[MarcusEngley]

I'm not an expert either, but my understanding is that the acid in the 50/50 mix dissolves the cement in the top layer of the grout, loosening the bond and allowing that layer to be wiped away, taking the efflorescence/latex migration/color oddities with it... Also important to rinse well with clean water or even a dilute ammonia solution to neutralize the acid.

[laniepoo7]

When you first put the mixture on the grout line it turned dark because it absorbed water (Think the color of wet concrete versus dry concrete). Perhaps there is moisture from below the other tiles that is causing the grout to be dark. What room is the other tile in?

[jadnashua]

Black on grout (that is not actually black of course) is often mildew or just stained from dirt. The mildew occurs if it stays damp for awhile, the dirt if it was not sealed or cleaned often. As noted, though, while it is damp, the color will be deeper, and can appear black.

[Almaden]

Lanie

The other grout is in Kitchen. I notice some blackened grout, where the other grout in the kitchen is gray. Kitchen floor doesn't have much water spilled on it.

The area I worked on is in the entryway from front door

[Almaden]

How do I remove the blackness from the supposedly gray grout ?
This is the area in the kitchen that already had gray grout. But some of that grout has turned black ... and some has cracks. I need to find a way to get rid of the black. Maybe remove that grout and re-grout ?

Pls advise

THanks

[Almaden]

I am a very very newbie to tile and grout.

Pls correct me if I am posting to the wrong Forum. I don't exactly know the etiquette here. I wouldn't want to get tossed from your discussion grou.

My kitchen counter and floor has grout that's got mildew. Color of grout is supposed to be gray. But the grout has changed to black due to mildew and other junk.

Which cleaner do you recommend ?

Thanks for your help in advance

[Davestone]

No, this is the right place,i was wondering if this is new grout?I noticed you had been posting about a grout job before,elsewhere.We have a couple cleaners at TYW above..Klenzall may be your best choice if it is older grout,and you'll need to use a stiff brush along the joints.

[doitright]

Hi Don :)

The black you are seeing is more than likely soiled grout. This is caused over a period of time washing the floor with improper cleaning tecniques. Your grout and floor can be cleaned using a stone & tile specific high alkaline cleaner such as Stone Techs KlenzAll. Allow the chemical to dwell on the surface for at least 10 minutes, agitate with a stiff brush. Try to pick up the dirty solution with a wet vac. Rinse with water or a neutral pH cleaner and wet vac again.

[doitright]

Hi Don :)

Dave's right. I also answered your question in your other thread. I don't think you have a mildew issue, unless you have a moisture problem.

[Mike2]

Don, you've already got one thread on this black grout issue so lets not start another one, OK. :)

I'm going to merge both of 'em together.

[Almaden]

Dudes, sorry for violating the etiquete with too many threads. :dunce:
I had been debating how to steer my older thread toward advice on blackgrout. So thanks to Moderator for merging. :clap2:

What grout cleaner from Home Depot do you recommend ?
The grout is approx 5 years old. It doesn't appear as if the grout has been cleaned for a while. I'm taking care of my uncle's house while on break from school. He bought it like a year ago. Fixer-upper, doesn't look like previous owner took great care of house.

Anyways, I'm basicallyh trying to remove maybe 5 years worth of mildew. What a disturbing visual. So would appreciate your pointer toward good grout cleaner fr Home Depot or Lowes

Thanks

[Almaden]

I saw this cleaner at Home Depot.
Is it any good ?

Will it remove approx 5 yrs of mildew and dirt ?

THanks

[Davestone]

Let me just point you to the myriad of threads complaining about tilelab cleaners and sealers.I've never used tilelab anything, but i have answered many questions about why it didn't do a very good job.It may work, i don't know..but what i do know works is our TYW products, and name brand products, such as Aquamix.I think Lowes has Aquamix products.