Mixed info on Stone Tech

[2Bzy]

Ok, this is getting me confused. I know you all can straighten it right out even without your thinking caps on.

Regarding sealing honed, filled travertine tile. We are wanting to use an enhancer and after reading up on our options looked into Stone Tech. I called the company and had a talk with a nice representative who suggested the Enhancer because it is water based and a little more forgiving. Said to use grout release (never the enhancer before grouting), then grout, then seal with Enhancer. Said we would always and forever have to use the Enhancer and could not ever switch over to their regular water based sealer.

We went to our local distributor and the representative there gave us different info. Said they only use the Enhancer Pro and that it seals much better. Said to give one coat of the Pro before grouting and then again after grout is cured. Said that as long as we stay solvent based, we could use other sealers in the Stone Tech line. They also had a sample of a stone that was sealed with Pro and left unwiped. Not real thick, but more visible than the wiped stone. She did give us a sampe of the pro and we tried it on a scrap...it looks real nice...we followed the instructions and wiped off the excess.

See any discrepancies here?? I don't know if either of these reps has ever laid a tile, but I know that is not the case here and that you have some practical experience with this stuff.

One more thing we can't figure regarding grout...the reason for sealing before grouting is to keep grout from staining into the tile or just to make cleanup easier?? What about staining into the edges of the tile and what brands are ok to use....any from HD or LWS?? Are there different pigments we should be able to identify on the labels.

Thanks for helping me get these duckies in a row before we decide how to proceed.

Emily

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[Tool Guy - Kg]

Hi Emily,
Use the "Enhancer Pro". It has a heavier duty protection rating than the water-based "Stone Enhancer". Be sure to follow directions and not allow the sealer to dry on the surface and you will be fine. I don't know what they mean by the water based stuff being more "forgiving"....maybe cleanup?

Most pros seal with the same sealer that is ultimately going to be on the tile. I would pre-seal with the "Enhancer Pro" before grouting to make grout cleaning easier. Then seal again with the same after the grout has had a chance to cure. The side of the stone gets NO SEALER whatsoever, as this would interfere with the grout from bonding to the sides of the tile. Be deliberate about sealing the tiles as to not allow the sealer to drip down the sides. Be aware that the enhancer will be darkening the grout, so take that into consderation ahead of time.

I think the biggest point the rep on the phone wants to make is that if you enhance, you can never go back to the stone's natural look....or if you seal with a penetrating sealer that retains the stone's natural look, you can never enhance the stone.

HD around here only carries TileLab, which I don't like. And we are getting our first Lowes in a coupla months, so I can't comment on what they have. :)

[2Bzy]

:eek:
Any suggestions on how to to avoid dripping on the side of the tiles??? I can be neat, yes, but the enhancer is like water. Is there an applicator that works best? I will be meticulous as needed to avoid problems with the grout.

Regarding products form HD or LWS...I was meaning grout. I would not dare ask about their sealers after investigating this forum for a while. Lets just say, you don't have to tell me twice. :D

Ok, so once enhanced, always enhanced...no problem...when it comes time to seal again, do we have to use the Pro...I am assuming it will not get any daker than it does after the first application.

Thanks Tool Guy!!

[claycarson]

2 -

I know it's too late to ask this question, but if you liked the enhanced honed stone, why not just go with the polished version? I'm not saying it's a mistake, and I do know that it's possible to have a different look of enhanced vs. polished, darker for example. Just curious if you looked at both and decided on honed/enhanced or if you chose honed without considering polished and then wanted more shine.

Does the enhancer look OK where the filler has plugged the holes, or is the gloss uneven due to absorbing differently?

The rep is correct about consistency of product. Choose one and stay with it. If you change and use a different product and there is a problem, which company will support the product?

Solvent based is more difficult to prevent from drying on, cuz it dries deceptively fast. Water based dries slower, more 'forgiving' cuz it gives humans more time to remember to wipe it.

[B. Yager]

I took a 2 day class from Stonetech about a year ago, in the class they said that there is no differance between the solvent based or water based as far as the florochemical was concerned. They said that after the carrier dried it didn't matter what type you put on at a later date. Why do you want to preseal your Travertine before you lay it, every floor I've ground in place and had to re-grout or re-fill I've never had a problem with the grout staining the tile or having it stick to it. If you preseal and want to fill in later the fill isn't going to stick because of the sealer., and if you polish it your not going to get any sealer to go into the stone anyway.

[claycarson]

Brian -

I'm sure you've done more of it than I have...but I just am pretty cautious about mixing products from different manufacturers. They might not have a bad reaction at all and there may be no problem. But what option does the customer have if in fact they do have a compatibility issue? Solvent base company will say "It's the fault of those water based bad boys" and the water crowd will tell you "See, that's what you get for hanging out with the solvent delinquents"....leaving customer twisting softly in the breeze.

Shame to put $1,000's and $1,000s into a stone install and have the only thing wrong with it "how it looks on the surface" (!!! :bang:!!)

I also agree that the grout probbly won't stain the stone. Most doesn't.

But...I've had Antique White grout stain white Bianco Carrara before. Doesn't seem logical that you could stain white on white, does it? I freaked out, but the customer did not notice or care. He was fixated on whether or not we did the honing evenly.

I got the impression that the stone was already filled, so the sealer would go on top of the filler.

[B. Yager]

Back to back I wouldn't mix them, but after it dries for a period it doesn't matter which carrier was used. But it may matter if a silicon and florochem was used with one another. Travertine is just not very easy to stain if at all.

[2Bzy]

Clay... good questions. Yup, we chose the honed/filled/enhanced on purpose. We didn't really want a lot of shine and were pleased that the sample we tested with the enhancer went from matte to satin finish...mostly just enriched the colors which is what we wanted in the first place.

Sorry Clay and Brian...I seem to have cause some confusion but with some further investigating I think we have figured out our solvent vs. water based dilema. We did not intend to switch brands of sealer...just didn't know if once we used the enhancer we always had to use it in the future. My understanding now (please make any needed adjustments in my understanding as it seems to only be a temporary condition these days :) )
is that if we use the Stone Tech Enhancer Pro we could use their solvent based sealer in the future...but can not switch between the Pro and a water based sealer. I just did not see the advantage of continuing to use the Enhancer Pro in the future if the stone is already enhanced...could we just use the Stone Techs solvent based sealer?

Glad to hear about the grout not staining....seems a little tricky to get the enhancer on without dripping a little here and there. We will plan to grout and then seal. :uhh:

Thanks guys....y'all are very helpful. And smart too!!! :yeah: