Removing 60's vinyl tile & adhesive

[TomR1972]

I've been using a putty knife and hammer to pop up this old vinyl tile, however there is a black sticky adhesive under the tiles. My question is what can I use to get that off? In order for me to put down ceramic tile later I would like to get most if not all of that black adhesive off. Anyone with advice and know how on this subject? Your input would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Tom R

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[bbcamp]

A 4" razor scraper will do it. There may be a stand-up model available. Get it and save your back and knees for the tile work.

[TomR1972]

Would you know if that old black adhesive has a good chance of containing asbestos? This was put in when the house was built in 1967, I am pretty sure of the tiles having asbestos so i've been trying to keep the breakage to a minimum.

Thanks,

Tom R

[bbcamp]

Prpbaly does have asbestos in it. The adhesive keeps it from getting airborne, though. In asbestos abatement circles, that's called "encapsulation."

Not a hazard unless you try sand it off.

[sandbagger]

if you really want to know about the asbestos you can probably find a local place that will test for a few bucks - shouldn't be much as it's a simple test. or I've heard of mail-in labs - search the internet.

as Bob said the danger is in the dust. some folks like to keep a water spray bottle handy so they can keep the area they're working wet as an added precaution.

[Rd Tile]

I assume this is over a slab, if so, and it's flat and no cracks, just chisle up any thick spots and go over it with a good modified thinset, Flexbond from HD works fine over cutback adhesive, do it all the time.:)

[TomR1972]

Rd thanks for that as well, let me make sure i understand what you are saying. Pull up the tile I have make sure I have no cracks or high spots underneath and then use the flexbond which I have a bag of to adhere the new tile. Am I close? LOL

Thanks,

Tom R

[Rd Tile]

Very close, yes, just make sure all the tile is up, they usually just pop up once smacked with a hammer, spray everything with a spray bottle of water while working.:)

[opiethetileman]

Heres a trick i learned when tearing up thoose floors. I go and get unsanded thinset or white unsanded grout sprikle it on the floor then sweep it around and woudlnt ya know you dont stick to any thing anymore.

[XxDustin82xX]

I use a roofing shovel the kind to remove shingles it works great for just about every tear out :cool:

[TomR1972]

Is it worth trying to remove that black adhesive? If it doesnt matter and I choose to do it what should i use? Also can I be directed to a thread on how to lay down tile evenly. What is the theory behind making sure your tile lines up right and is square to the room? The room I am working with is a family room that is one big room that opens to another small area that takes you to the garage which also takes you into a laundry room and bathroom. So when you deal with a room where it bleeds into other areas like this how do you go about figuring where/how you want to lay your tile? Thanks for putting up with this newbie!!

Another question ..ooops i want to use tile as my baseboard would it look uglly to use the same tile as the floor for the baseboard? I want to do this since I have many dogs and want to keep the floor as sealed as I can in event of messes and much cleaning!!

Thanks,
Tom R

[chukar8]

if the tiles are 9"x9" they most likley contain asbestos, if they contain asbestos then the adhesive as well probably does.

You guys need to be careful youre giving people advice on removing products containing asbestos, which by the way is not a good thing (know youre products before advising) :bang:

There are other options besides removal in some cases. :)

[cx]

The guys seem to have made a point about not making dust during the removal, Bryan, which eliminates the only hazard I know of from asbestos.

your point about being aware of what material you might be removing is well taken, but some of us simply don't subscribe to the unreasonable fear of asbestos promoted by our government. There is nothing sinister about asbestos, it just wants reasonable caution in its handling.

We, of course, don't suggest that our visitors violate any regulations governing the handling and disposal of the products, just that they apply some common sense and reasonable caution in all phases of their remodeling projects. :shades:

My opinion; worth price charged.

[chukar8]

Point taken cx, but theres more to removing asbestos than spraying water on it, there is disposal etc which carries with it big fines if not done by the rules.
I also dont think it is dangerous when handled properly, PROPERLY being the key word. :)
btw: ingestion causes problems also, so its not only dangerous when airborne keep it off youre clothes, hands etc.

respectfully,

[TomR1972]

Just was curious if it was a real pain in the butt to remove that black adhesive and if its even worth that hastle. I'll more than likely just go over it with flexbond to adhere my new ceramic tiles to. I try to be as safe as I can when working with what might be asbestos. I have three options get men in space suites with futuristic devices for 10,000.00 or more to remove it, leave it, or take it out myself. Considering Asbestos is also a naturally occuring substance in the ground I figure if I am careful removing it I'll be good to go. I am taking a risk and I realize that but I feel I am also taking a risk leaving it in my house for over 40 years. I'd just soon have kids, knowing that the house has been revamped and is much safer than it was when I grew up in it.

Back to the other questions with a room that bleeds into other shapes for the laundry and bathroom how do you go about figuring where your cuts on tile will be ..do you just lay out the tile with what fits best and makes the most sense? How do I make sure that the tile is actually running straight if or if i dont have square room.


Thanks and once again sorry for upsetting anyone with the asbestos issue.

Tom R

[chukar8]

Tom, no ones upset, just making sure you know what youre dealing with :)
I have much respect for these guys, taking time to advise people like youreself, this is a great forum with knowledgeable people and good advice.

tom-JB's book" tile youre world "has good instructions on layouts.

[Indiana Floors]

This is a tricky case.

The asbestoes in tile is the lowest form available and can only be inhaled if it sanded extensively.

If the glue does not come it can be scarficed,for thinset I would use a good flexbond.
Lay away....

[TomR1972]

Tom, no ones upset, just making sure you know what youre dealing with :)
I have much respect for these guys, taking time to advise people like youreself, this is a great forum with knowledgeable people and good advice.

tom-JB's book" tile youre world "has good instructions on layouts.


I appreciate your concern! Thanks for clearing it up I wasn't sure if some of ya'll had a rough past on here and this was going to be the eruption thread! Thanks for all the info!!

So flexbond will do just fine right over that black asbestos adhesive? You said, "If the glue does not come it can be scarficed,for thinset I would use a good flexbond.
Lay away...." What does scarficed mean to me? LOL SORRY NEWBIE here.

Thanks again,

Tom R

[John Bridge]

Hi Tom, :)

Hi-teck talk. We use it to impress newbies. :D

Naw, another word might be "scarified." It just means to rough it up, maybe cut grooves into it or ruts, even. Maybe just hit it with a grinder.

[TomR1972]

I read and read on here but I retain so little lol! I got another question for you I was reading your tile grading section and the grading system you mentioned are roman numerals but on the box of tile I plan on using it gives me a letter. So let me ask you this.....I am using ELEGANZA TILES, 13x13 and it says the grade of tile is A. I will assume it means the lowest grade tile since it is not very expensive tile LOL. Am I correct to assume this? Have you or anyone used this paticular brand of tile and do i dare use it, lol? Do I need to seal this type of tile?

Also I think I will be going out to get your book tonight if not tomorrow here hopefully barnes and noble has it. I was hoping for some design insight and your tile superiority! I am attatching a rough drawing I did of the room I have. Its a family room that also goes to a laundry room and bathroom. I am contemplating how to go about this. Since its not a normal room how should i go about lining up the tiles to the walls? Should I run the whole thing on a diagnol? Should I border something etc mix it up? Any thoughts would be of great help. Sorry to bog ya down with so many questions if you choose to answer one i'll be happy!!!!

Thanks,

Tom R

[stullis]

The cutback needs to be scraped to a thin layer. Using a grinder on the stuff would be a no-no. There are products available that will remove the stuff if you are concerned that it isn't scraped thin enough. Sentinel makes a product. I have heard of a soy based remover as well.


You can get John's book in the TYW Store.
http://www.tileyourworld.com/catalog/index.php?manufacturers_id=12&osCsid=8f0068eb43bdafc33514d3dcdb430ad4

Not sure if it is available in book stores yet. John?

[TomR1972]

I went to barnes and borders, borders has no clue about the book. Barnes says its out of print and they can get a used one for me for 40.00 something, so I laughed and said no thanks. Then came home and ordered it online for 26 or something like that lol.

The adhesive from the old tile isnt on that thick in each square of tile i removed there are light spots of concrete showing so I think I am good to go. What kind of mix should I use for my tiles?


Thanks,

Tom R

[Rd Tile]

Flexbond thinset works fine over cutback adhesive, you can get it at HD, that's the name of the thinset, it's made by Custom, just add water.:)

[TomR1972]

flexbond fortified thinset mortar....is that wrong? There are so many to choose from, just call me newbie!!!! Another question is it ok to do portions of the room on different days? Do I need to lay all the tile in one day? How long can the tiles when set be left without grout? Any help on how or where to go to get my tiles to line up straight? If the room is not square and I am sure its not whats the procedure for starting? If its too difficult to explain on here and its in the book i'll wait for that, dont want to be a pain!

Thanks for everything

Tom R

[stullis]

I went to barnes and borders, borders has no clue about the book. Barnes says its out of print and they can get a used one for me for 40.00 something, so I laughed and said no thanks. Then came home and ordered it online for 26 or something like that lol.

Thanks,

Tom R

The book that Barnes has is John's first book. Also a very good reference book.

[TomR1972]

I got johns book and read some but not being one who is good with books I still have many questions. Ok he says that rooms are not square and that humans make mistakes etc etc and that you should find the longest wall and measure a parallel line to that some feet out. Then somewhere on that line you would put an X down and draw a perpendicular line that goes out 3 feet. From that intersection on your origanal line you'd measure 4 feet and then the last line will be 5 feet. So Ok, now what? I now have a 90 degree at the 4 to 3 feet line intersetion but thats a 90 degree angle that may be off to the walls right? Where do I start.... right at the right angle? All I need is one 90 degree in my family room to feel confident about the rest so I can tile? I am using 13x13 tile and would like the minimum grout spacing, what would that be? I have many more questions but cant think past my few questions I just asked lol.

Thanks,

Tom R

[bbcamp]

You found the dominant wall of the room, drew a line parallel to that wall, and drew a perpendicluar line to the first line, you are now ready to find the exact center of the room. Do that by drawing a line between the opposite corners of the room, where they intersect is the center.

Now, transfer your first line and the perpendicular lines to the center. These new lines are the major and minor axis of the room. Good so far?

Now, place your tiles side by side along the axis, allowing for the grout gap you intend to use (I suggest either 3/16" or 1/4", I wouldn't go smaller.). Do you end up with a cut tile against the walls? Is it more or less than 1/2 a tile? If more, then you can start gridding the room, more about that later. If less, move your tiles over so that a tile exactly straddles the axis line, then your cut tiles at the walls will be bigger than 1/2 a tile. Tiles that are bigger than 1/2 will hide most room squareness issues. Really out-of-square walls can be tiled on the diagonal, if necessary. We'll leave that alone for now, though.

Gridding is a process of snapping lines that are 2 or 3 tile+groutline widths apart. This will give you alignment marks every so often so that your layout never drifts very much, and you can start anywhere in the grid and be certain that you will always end up in the right spot, even through doorways, in closets, and around corners. The grid should be no further than you can comfortably lean over (from you knees) and place a tile. For 13 inch tiles, a grid that is 2 tiles wide is about a far as you can go. Spread thinset between the grid lines, and set your tiles, then move to the next grid.

[TomR1972]

By the way thanks for trying to work with me on this, I have the hardest time visualizing on my own, always pick it up better watching it myself.

Can the dominant wall of the room include a sliding glass patio door? If you go back in the thread about 8 posts or so you'll see an attachement rough as it may be, it shows the room ok i think. The wall on the right has a sliding glass door out to our covered patio. The left side is crazy with stairs coming down, a door out to the garage and a door that lead to a laundry/bathroom. So the wall parallel to that dominant wall isn't the same lenght as shown.

When I draw these opposite corner lines I measure from as deep in the corner as i can to the opposite corner so i'll end up with a big x and then you say transfer the original parallel line and perpendicular liines over? I see what you are saying "i think", but not sure.

I'll have more questions but want to get through this before I ask further, lol. I am not doing this as we speak just trying to visualize what I need to do. By the way is it possilbe to tile parts of this room at different times or will this cause issues?

Thanks,

Tom R

[bbcamp]

The dominant wall is the one your eye is drawn to and is the most visible at floor level. It can be the one with the sliding door in it.

Once you get the room "squared" and gridded, you can tile anywhere you want, do as much or as little as you want. The grid will keep you straight. A couple of things to keep in mind, though. Don't tile yourself into a corner, and come grouting day, try to do the whole room the same day.

[joes0707]

I am somewhat in the same boat as Tom except the vinyl tile was over a wood subfloor (above grade house). I have a lot of adhesive on the wood. I plan on putting Flexbound down but was told that all of the adhesive has to be removed. Any tips on how I can take adhesive off of wood?

[rwcarpenter]

Joe, In your case, Assuming the wood is plywood and that the structure is good (start a thread and have the pros help you check it) I think just putting down a layer of unmodified thinset, the screwing down some cbu is a better option than trying to remove the cutback.

[JBert]

I'm doing the same thing. I plan just to put carpet down after I get this old stuff up. Do I really need to scrape all this black stuff up? I got so into cleaning the mess up and making it just "right" that I'm beginning to wonder if it is really necessary since it will be covered by the carpet and padding. Does it make a difference? Sorry I'm a clean freak....right now a tired clean freak.

[dgunnels]

Since you are covering it with carpet lighten up! Just make sure there aren't any big lumps or bumps.