Liner is installed w/pichers [Archive] - Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile


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07-16-2005, 07:46 PM
First time shower guy here, got my pan liner installed and am pretty happy with it. First picher shows the liner "roughed in", using painters tape hold it in place while I figgered out the cuts and folds. The dam corners are just resting in place so I could see how they fit. The shower is a neo-angle with the long dimensions being 46". Everything seemed to go OK, will do the water test tomorrow. Thanks to all on this website, especially John B.

Used the Pasco 40 mil liner and their corner dams (p/n 3000), Pasco solvent cement, PlumBest 3-piece drain flange, and DAP Butyl-flex caulk between liner and flange.

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07-16-2005, 08:01 PM
"looks" tell us it passed the leak test :)


07-16-2005, 08:27 PM
Yeah looks good. What did you do in the bottom pic armour all it? :laugh2:

07-17-2005, 12:44 PM
Very neat job, you're hired. :)

07-17-2005, 01:38 PM
A shame you have to tile it. That shiny red pan looks good. Got to put my shades on for it. :cool:

07-17-2005, 08:21 PM
8 hours into the leak test, and the kitchen ceiling hasn't fallen in! :cool: I'll pull the plug tomorrow after work and start with the vapor barrier and CBU. Thick mud base next weekend, tile the week after that!

07-17-2005, 08:32 PM
Good job Will :) We like to see pics as you progress.

07-18-2005, 06:50 AM
Still no leaks as of this morning, 18 hrs into the test. Yippee! :)

07-18-2005, 07:54 PM
Leak test passed with flying colors! :yipee: Zero leakage after 31 hours.

Nice slope to the drain, no standing/ponding water. Thanks to all who make this forum possible, it made a difference in my knowledge level and confidence.

07-18-2005, 08:39 PM
So reward thineownself with an adult beverage and then git back to work. :)

07-18-2005, 09:12 PM
Wife fell in love with the layout in the Ceramica Magica brochure: 1x1 mosaic for the shower base, and 12x18s on the wall. Dang those are big. What is the key to setting these monsters on the wall? I think I've read that you set the first course and let them cure. Is this correct? How do I build a support for the first course? Thanks for any and all advice.

07-18-2005, 09:19 PM
Hi Will, is this part of the other thread for your shower? If so I'll merge them together so we all know where it is. I usually do the second row using a straight edge propped level about an eight higher than the floor tile plus one wall tile then fill in the bottom after the walls are done and the floor is in. You need to use spacers and wedgies to keep things straight. I would prolly nine dot those big ones.

07-18-2005, 09:28 PM

Yes this part of the same shower project, thanks for sorting out the threads and also for the quick response. What do you mean by nine dot?

p.s. prolly going muskie fishing on Lk. St. Clair in August. Here fishy fishy.

07-18-2005, 10:01 PM
Hi Will, by nine dot I mean make a golf ball size blob of thinset inna nice pattern and stick it to the wall pressing it in plumb, keep a four foot level handy so you can keep the tiles flat and plumb. About the musky fishing on St Clair, BIG BIG fish in there. Be sure to get some pics if you get any. Good luck

07-19-2005, 08:22 PM
Quick question on thinset for CBU tape joints. Which brand/type of thinset? I looked in the liberry and didn't see anything on this, and searching produces a dizzying number of threads on various thinset issues. I saw Versabond at Home Depot, is this OK for tape joints? Is the same stuff OK for setting porcelain tile on walls and the shower floor? Thanks again folks.

On another note, I'm eyeing the FTS-150 Felker. Anyone care to comment on this saw? Good/bad/indifferent? At the rental rate HD charges, I will end up buying half a saw on this job. Next job is the MIL's backsplash (brownie points ya know! :rolleyes: ) then our backsplash. Wouldn't want to miss a tool opportunity! :laugh2:

07-22-2005, 12:08 PM
Another question, this time on shower valves. I am using a Price Pfister valve, which is pictured below. The cast brass/bronze housing is on the right, without screwdriver stops or the "back to back" feature. Two questions:

1. Why is the large plastic "plaster guard" so large? My thought is that the CBU hole should only be large for part no. 974-024 to poke through.

2. Has anyone used this valve before? It seems very deep, such that even if I set the valve deep in the stud cavity, it will stick into the shower further than I would like. Maybe there's nothing I can do about it.

With luck I'll get the valve in this Saturday, and possibly also the CBU. Assuming success, the mortar bed will go in Sunday, and then I can think about setting tile!

07-22-2005, 01:01 PM
I just installed one of these in our newly remodeled guest bath recently. I think the large opening is there so that, if necessary, the valve can be serviced. For my situation, it turned out that a 2 x 4 block mounted flush to the backside of the studs set the valve assembly depth perfectly for our finished wall (tile over 1/2" Hardibacker over 1/2" greenboard).


07-22-2005, 01:55 PM

Thanks for your reply. For some reason I'm having a hard time visualizing the valve depth/installation. Your experience gives me hope that I'll be OK.

07-22-2005, 05:09 PM
Hi Will, the plaster ring that comes with any valve must be able to fit in the hole of the cbu. Otherwise the escutcheon ring won't fit on the tile when finished.

07-23-2005, 11:49 AM
Mike, thanks. I figured out what my problem was, I had the trim ring reversed, which fits into the escutcheon. It was giving me a false sense of how deep the valve had to fit in the stud cavity.

Next question relates to outside corners on the neo angle curb. How should these be trimmed with tile? We are trying to achieve a look with 1x1 mosaic on the vertical face of the curb, but the top corners need to have either bullnose, quarter round or v-cap. OK, I understand that. But what about the mitred neo-corners? If I do a true mitre, it will give me a sharp piece of trim (v cap or quarter round) sticking out. I have seen 1x1 "beaks" or top v-cap corners. The concern here is they are made (I think) for 90 degree corners, and I have 2 135 degree corners. Not sure if my tile saw skills are good enough to trim the v-cap corners to 135 degrees without breaking a carton of them. In my mind it's easier to think of mitring a large piece of trim, although the beak or v-cap corner would give a more finished look.

If people could post pictures of their neo angle curbs, showing how the outside corners are trimmed, it would be really appreciated.

Do any of the experts (cx, davy, muskymike, John B. or anyone else) have any suggestions?

John Bridge
07-23-2005, 06:18 PM
Will, we have scores of experts here. Don't limit yourself by calling out names. ;)

What I do is cut the miters from bullnose and file off the sharp corners just a bit with a rubbing stone or tile file. I might look a little funky at close range, but it's the way to go. You can't leave sharp points anywhere. :)

It actually works best with radius bullnose/mud caps. The point is less severe to begin with. You still need to file the cut, though.

07-23-2005, 06:22 PM
Yep, what JB said. Hell, you axe for an answer from CX on questions about the actual tiling and you're really limiting yourownself. CX is a rank amateur amongst this crowd. :shades:

Just toss'em out, Will, somebody'll field'em. :)

07-23-2005, 07:52 PM
Thanks alot guys. I can see how filing the mitre cut would make a nice looking corner. Finally instaleld the shower valve today, it was giving me fits. Next is to hang the CBU, build the curb and float the deck mud.

07-23-2005, 08:09 PM
I'm with John, we miter bullnose all the time no mater what the angle is. A quarter round might be a little easier to get the right angle, still can be tough though. You don't want a V-cap on the curb. :)

07-23-2005, 08:12 PM
Better bring this up now.why not test your valve now, before you get it tiled in,sometimes they leak...don't ask how i know this...only when they are turned on..and also some valves are the type made for a tub, and some people forget to cap off the bottom line...don't ask how i know this also...and sometimes they don't hook up the anti scald ring correctly...don't know. :bow: :)

07-23-2005, 08:34 PM
Dave are you the reason why they put dont try this at home on the box come on little buddy its ok tell us it was you.

07-23-2005, 08:50 PM
Thanks again everybody.

Davestone, I did indeed test my plumbing and the valve, it's still exposed (no CBU yet). So far so good, no leaks, and the kitchen ceiling hasn't caved in yet. I consider that to be a good thing. ;)

07-23-2005, 11:20 PM
Will, sorry I missed your post a couple of days ago asking about the Felker FTS 150. Yes I own one, I have a collection of a couple different kinds of saws. Have a Imer rail saw, Target, and a recently retired MK101. I use the FTS all the time now. For the price, very decent saw. I am now considering the smaller 75 series. As I am getting older, harder to lug the big ones. Check my posts, I had a review of the Felker. I say buy it, it is the BEST saw for the price. Very happy with mine. Follow the link here on this board, best price and super fast shipping. I cut some pretty mean tile with it, does everything you need it to do. I am a true Felker convert, will be buying them from now on. Felker quality, and customer support is a huge plus. If you have any questions, Andy is quick to respond with advice on this board. When my MK had problems, couldn't even get a rep on the phone. My two cents, and I have put this saw through hell in the short time I have had it.

John Bridge
07-24-2005, 07:55 PM

Chris, Wanna be a rep? ;)

07-24-2005, 08:00 PM
Saw another example (on HGTV) where 1x1 mosaic was used on a horizontal surface with no trim or bullnose on the outside corner. There must be a way to avoid sharp edges. Is the mosaic radiused by the factory, or by the installer with a tile saw, or by hand with a file/stone? Would like to achieve this look if possible, thanks for any advice. Pic attached from for reference. This one has no mosaic on the top, but it is exposed on the face of the tub surround.

07-28-2005, 01:56 PM
Looks like I'm going to have to level my subfloor. Right now I have 3/4" T&G plywood, over which I was going to thinset+screw CBU.

Regarding self levelling cements, which is preferable - pour the SLC directly onto the plywood or over the CBU? I understand the SLC adheres to wood or cement board, but is there a preferred way to do it? Thanks for any and all replies.

07-28-2005, 02:56 PM
Hi Will, you want to put the slc on the cbu. Don't forget to use the primer with it.

Bruce K
07-28-2005, 04:13 PM
The way I see it Chassis, you shouldn't have let your wife see the shower until it was tiled and done. Then you could have used 4x4, 6x6, mosaics or whatever you wanted.

When my wife "and I" were planning our shower, pretty much every one of my ideas got scrapped, and her choices are going forward...

07-28-2005, 08:28 PM
Mike, thanks. So the tile will be set in thinset, which is spread over the SLC? Just want to be sure to have this right.

Bruce, lol. I know how that goes. She's let me have free reign for the most part, but she really liked the photo in the brochure, which I posted earlier. The thing I'm trying to figure out is how to use 1x1 mosaics on all faces of the curb without having a sharp edge at the top corners/edges. Bullnose is my fall back plan but if there is a way to use the smaller tile, it will give us the look we are striving for.

07-28-2005, 08:55 PM
Hi Will,

You could use a v-cap instead of bullnose, or you could cut the bullnose into 1x1 pieces on a wet saw. Just an idea.:)

07-28-2005, 09:02 PM
MHI, excellent idea on cutting the bullnose into 1x1 pieces!! :) Thanks a bunch!! I thought about v-cap, but not sure it would deliver the look we are trying to achieve.

07-31-2005, 06:25 PM
Built my curb tonight, the mortar is still setting up. Quick reply needed if anyone is on the site now - is it OK to whittle and carve on the curb to get the faces plumb/square/true? Being a first timer I build more of a pyramid than a curb, but I believe it's within the range of carveable, after the mortar sets up for a while.

07-31-2005, 08:33 PM
Absolutely, Will. That's just how a fella's s'posta work fat mud.

Hope it ain't too late. :)

07-31-2005, 09:51 PM

Thanks, not it's not too late. Still doing some trimming here and there. :) Here's a few pichers. Like the liberry says, top don't have to look pretty at this point, and it doesn't. :cool: One outside/top corner is not exactly how I would like it, my thought is to fix it with Versabond, is this OK?

I used an angle finder to strike the 135 degree corners, it worked pretty good even though it's probably not a typical masonry tool, or maybe it is.

08-01-2005, 09:11 PM
Put the mud bed in tonight. Good slope toward all compass points, isoclines level, good compaction. Used a piece of mosaic to guage the drain height. Feel pretty good about it. What looks like a jagged screed line at the top of the second picture is damp CBU where I scraped away excess mud.

Curb, which was put in last night, feels very solid since I had to sit on it to screed the mud bed.

08-02-2005, 06:34 AM
Looks fine from over here, Will. Only caution I would give is that if the top is where you want it, you might wanna knock of all the edges a little so they don't interfere with your tiling. If you still need to build up the height a bit, it's not a consideration. And yes, you can dress it up a bit with thinset later if you need to.

My opinion; worth price charged.

08-02-2005, 07:35 AM
Thanks cx. The curb is a bit rougher than I had hoped; it does need to be neatened up with thinset. Also got a tile stone to take some high points and edges off. Thanks for looking over my shoulder! :)

Next step is to finish the CBU and drywall. When taping the CBU joints, I'll also tweak the curb. Trying to minimize the number of times I mix batches of thinset, it's too much like work! :cool: :)

08-02-2005, 03:13 PM
Been reading some other posts on CBU for floor tile. Is 1/4" CBU OK for this? The floor construction is 2x10 joists 16" o/c with 3/4" T&G plywood. Dimensions of the floor are 7' x 9'. Tile is porcelain of various sizes from 6x6 to 18x18. The difference in thickness is not going to make or break anything, but wouldn't mind carrying lighter material up the stairs or saving a few $$.

Here is the vision for the setting pattern, or something similar.

08-02-2005, 05:24 PM

The deflecto boys are gonna need the unsupported 'span' of the floor joists. In other words how long it is before it rests on a footing/beam/post-pier at each end.


08-02-2005, 05:39 PM
Hi Will, what Mark said. Looks like modified hopscotch pattern. I will be doing one just like it next week.

08-02-2005, 07:49 PM
14' span 2x10 SYP 16" o/c, according to Deflecto it's OK. Question about that anyway - deflecto assumes the full unsupported span is getting tiled right? That would yield a conservative calculation if you are not tiling the entire span, which in my case is 9 feet - the long dimension of my master bath.

08-02-2005, 08:14 PM
Nope, Will, that ain't the way it works. Technically speaking, any of the floor flexes, all the floor flexes. Flexes more inna middle, usually, but you still need to meet specs for the entire span in order to tile any of it.

Not to say you're not more likely to luck out on a small entry or bath at the edge of a questionable floor, but if it doesn't meet deflection specs, it's K-MAG-YOYO* so far as any warranty is concerned. :)

My opinion; worth price charged.

*Kiss My Ass George, You're On Your Own

08-02-2005, 08:21 PM
cx, so am I reading the deflecto correctly - my span, spacing and joist size/species is OK for porcelain tile flooring? Thanks.

davestone, I've got another good idea for future reference. :idea: After taking apart the shower valve cartridge, for no good reason other than to see what it looks like, always reinstall it rightside up. Don't ask me how I know. :cool: :crazy:

08-02-2005, 09:23 PM
CX, who's this George with the donkey-philia?:D


08-04-2005, 08:45 AM
Can anyone explain the detail on the curb in this picture - looks like 1x1 mosaic on vertical and horizontal surfaces. How was the outside (sharp) corner addressed? Doesn't look like any trim is used, maybe the mosaics were bullnosed with a wet saw on the job site? Would love to have this design on our curb but can't seem to get over the sharp outside corner.

08-10-2005, 12:44 PM
Question about cutting trim (listello) tiles. I am planning a chair rail (Magica calls it a "torello") along the top edge of the tiled area in the shower. The torello will terminate where the tile terminates, which is in the middle of an untiled wall. Rather than have the torello stop at a square cut, I want to have a return. Should I cut the return out of the torello material, or use a cut down v-cap piece?

John Bridge
08-10-2005, 02:33 PM
Hi Will,

Torellos often come with an end cap that looks like a quarter of a finial. Check and see whether one is available. Otherwise, miter the end back with the same torello material.

If CX sees this, he'll post his famous torello pic. :)

08-10-2005, 06:48 PM
I've been reading on this forum for a long time (over a year...slow progress on our bathroom remodel). We also came up with a similar style on our shower. Played around a bit with different looks and finally just decided to make the outside of the dam match the rest of the room. Used a standard tile cut to height, mitered the outside corners (somewhere near your 135 degrees) and plan on topping off the dam with a similar color. Will probably invest in the bullnose that matches or manufacture a smoothed edge.

Have are making better progress than we are!

08-10-2005, 10:40 PM
Look to see if one of the egdes of the mosaic is glazed like the tile. Some tiles have 'somewhat' glazed edge and can do the trick. Also some tiles are labeled 'thru-body' and the surface closely matches the the body and edges. I belivedit is used in high traffic areas where damage is likely. It helps nicks and chips be less noticable.

Or, and this would be a real pain with 1" mosaics, is to 45 degree miter cut each edge tile.

Good luck.

08-10-2005, 11:09 PM
Hi Will, sorry I couldn't find a better picture with 1x1's, but I think you can get the idea from this. Often they're thin enough to just put them close & grout the 45, sometimes you have to relieve the back corner a little. 60 grit on my Metabo polisher takes the backs down at an angle pretty fast, bigger tile get the grinder with a diamond blade. :)

08-11-2005, 07:05 AM
Outside corners were available for the Torellos John mentioned, Will (this was from back when we all learnt what the hell a Torello was :D ), and I needed to kill it into the mud-cap at the edge of the shower wall. Thought I had finished pichers, but here is the pre-grout version.

08-11-2005, 08:52 PM
cx, looks great! So there are 2 options to terminate the torello - mitre it back or use the end cap. I'll check into the end cap with Magica.

Everyone else, thanks for the feedback and ideas. I'm thinking of using 1x1 mosaic for the vertical dam surfaces and using bullnose pieces on the top. I am confident I can pull that off without searching the world over for a different solution.

08-11-2005, 09:08 PM
Again, Will, it ain't an end cap, it's an outside corner piece. When it's coped into the field tile (or trim), it looks like an end cap, though.

Weren't no sucha thing as an end cap in what I was using. Maybe for you is different. :)

My opinion; worth price charged.

08-20-2005, 08:10 PM
This is a floorplan question more than tiling. What is the minimum recommended pass-through space for walking between a neo-angle shower enclosure and a vanity? The space I am thinking of having will be 20", which assumes I am using a 72" vanity. If this is not enough, I can go to a 60" vanity to get more space, but would rather go with the larger vanity.

Thanks for advice on this.

08-20-2005, 10:43 PM
What's the beam on the widest person gonna pass through that opening, will? :D

Without a floor plan, I wouldn't even guess, but 20 inches is pretty narrow for some spaces. I'm quite comfortable with such openings, some folks aren't.

How's come you can't have you a five-and-a-half-foot vanity?

My opinion; worth price charged.

08-27-2005, 08:07 PM
Thanks for the help cx. I think I'll plan for 24" clearance, and that gives me a 60" vanity.

What is the grout line width on your torello in the picture? Also, is there an "easy" way to mix thinset? I taped all my CBU joints tonight and mixing the thinset with an electric drill seemed to be more work than it should have been. I started the mix very dry and slowly added water, is that the right way?

08-27-2005, 08:13 PM
Will, cx can help you on the grout joint question.

I normally put a little water in the bucket first and add powder to it. See if that works better. The drill and paddle is the best way to mix it, gets more of the lumps out. Don't over mix it at a high RPM drill, mix it slow. :)

08-27-2005, 08:15 PM
I was using self-spacing 4 1/4s on that shower, Will, and just tried to make the grout line about the same. Prolly a little over 1/16th, but not much.

Using a drill is the easy way. But you'll find it easier if you start with water in your bucket and add thinset. That's a lot easier with a helper, of course, but you can use a coffee can scoop and do fine - so long as you can keep holt of the drill, of course. :D

My opinion; worth price charged.

Ol' Davy's fast tonite, eh? :D

08-27-2005, 08:19 PM
Thanks for the quick tips Davy and cx. Yes keeping a holt ;) of the drill would be preferable, wouldn't it? ;) I'm congratulating mineownself tonight for almost finishing with the pain in the *** stuff and getting to the fun stuff (setting tile).

08-27-2005, 08:29 PM
What the other two distinguished gentlemen said re: thinset mixin'

I'll only add, hold the bucket in between your 'feets', my hole-hawg will spin the whole works with a bucket over half full. :)


08-27-2005, 08:30 PM
:topicoff: This one's for muskiemike. Couldn't find the 'skies on Lake St. Clair but managed a couple nice smallies. Here's one of the bigger ones. Perch are heating up this time of year.

09-04-2005, 10:15 AM
Starting to get ready for tiling the shower base and curb - two questions.

1. My neo angle curb is not the same width on all three legs. The "neo" leg is about an inch wider than the 2 legs perpendicular to the walls. What are my options? I have been grinding the curb by hand, using a tile rub stone. Seems to be making some progress but wonder if there is a better way. The opposite viewpoint would be to widen the narrower legs, but that doesn't seem right to me.

2. My deck mud base needs some filling in of low spots prior to the 1x1 mosaic going down. When people say "burn in the thinset", do you let the burnt-in thinset dry, or do you immediately comb more thinset on top and then set the tile? It seems to me that I want to even out the surface/burn-in and let it harden, then come back with the bond layer the next day.

Thanks as usual.

p.s. Received Mr. Bridge's book in the mail last week - very good reference guide!

09-04-2005, 10:56 PM
Hi Will, nice Bass in your other post. :) We have them down here in Texas that our bait shops. :laugh2:

Yeah, we try to make the curb the same size all the way around. Where the curb meets the walls, line up the outside edge of the curb tile with the outside edge of the wall tile. Sometimes the curb will control how far out the wall tile will go. Hope you follow me. You can butter out the front or inside curb tiles if needed.

Burning in means to force it into the surface and then add more to bond it with although you can add a skim coat of thinset to the mud to smooth it out if you think it needs it. Let it dry (go fishing) and set the floor the next day. :)

09-05-2005, 10:57 AM
Thanks Davy. Us poor Yankees don't know no better, we think a 3lb bass is a monster. ;) Something about 6 months of winter and below zero temps that the bass don't like...

Yep I follow you on the wall tile/curb tile thing. Also like the idea of buttering the inside curb tiles in. This will give a consistent curb width all the way around.

I think I will do a skim coat of thinset on the deck mud, let it dry then come back with the bond coat when I set the tile. I didn't finish it with a steel trowel, and the sand I used had some fair sized pebbles in it.

09-05-2005, 11:21 AM
Sounds like a good plan. :)

I've caught a large mouth that was 8 lbs, that was on Lake Fork in East Texas. There were some big fish in that lake at one time, my 8 pounder was 21 1/2 inches long. Everything 21 inches and under goes back. Not worth bragging about on that lake, at least not 10-15 years ago. Not sure how it is today. :)

09-06-2005, 09:21 PM
Question on setting wall tile top down vs. bottom up. I want to be precise about where my tile ends at the top, which is constrained by an air conditioning register. Therefore I want to set my torello at the top, then tile down, with the bottom row being cut where it meets the shower pan/curb. Reason being, accumulated errors if I start from the bottom will cause me to cut the top tile, which I think is not the best aesthetic-wise.

Any issues with this? I think I will need to build a support for each course of tile as I work my way down. To do this I'm thinking of a 2x4 "T" with a 1x4 rest piece to serve as a straight edge, with wedgies to get things perfectly plumb and level. In addition to the support from below, I would tape the top of the wet tile to the previously laid course above. Seems like a slow process, but I'm in no hurry and want to do it right. Is this the way to do it or is there another method?

BTW my wall tiles are 12x18 so they will definitely need some support while the thinset is drying.

John Bridge
09-07-2005, 03:51 PM

That is a mountain of work. Are you sure you can't calculate your courses of tile so they'll come out where you want them at the top? I think you can do that and maybe make minute adjustments on the way up. :)

09-07-2005, 06:05 PM
Nice smallie Will, too bad no muskies. :)

09-07-2005, 07:34 PM
John, yep I can do the calculations but a tad concerned I might not get it just right, and will end up a hair higher than I like. Maybe I can cheat the top grout line a little since it is a torello and it wouldn't stick out like a sore thumb like it would in the middle of the wall.

Thx Mike. We tried and tried but couldn't find the toothy critters.

09-07-2005, 10:42 PM
Hey, Will, don't pay no mind to Davy. Them Texas bass fisherpersons think Buglemouth basses is the onliest basses there is. A three-pound smallmouth ain't nothin' to be ashamed of, for sure. Hell, I bet that makes Davy's 8-pound largemouth just another fish. :shades:

And my just-under-seven-pound personal best Buglemouth don't hardly even count as a real fish. :D

I never did get to fish Lake Fork, Davy, but I remember when all the records were coming outa there. I also remember back in the days when Sam Rayburn and Toledo Bend were just moderately wonderful every trip. Then I remember when we started gettin skunked on a two-day trip over there. :( Funny how those lakes change as they grow up.

09-07-2005, 10:44 PM
We tried and tried but couldn't find the toothy critters.
Seems like I have been having the same problem! :bang: :cry:

09-09-2005, 02:52 PM
Regarding vanity clearance, does anyone concur that 21" is the minumum per IRC?

John Bridge
09-09-2005, 04:43 PM
Well, 21 in. is the standard depth of a bathroom counter. Having only 21 in. of clearance in front of it might be the standard on a pleasure boat or in an R.V., but it won't make it in a house, not in this country, anyway. :)

09-09-2005, 06:55 PM
John I agree it would be tight, but would it pass a code inspection? I also found a similar clearance requirement for the space in front of a shower. Do people agree with this. Thanks.

09-14-2005, 07:08 PM
Tile came in today and have started laying it out. Question on the corners of the neo-angle curb. Should I bevel cut the edges of the tile, then use spacers to achieve the desired grout line size, then grout the joint straight across the two tiles?

Also included a partial dry layout of the floor tile. Tile color is a little red due to my camera's white balance not liking indoor lighting + flash.

09-14-2005, 08:13 PM
Looking back through the thread, it doesn't look like anybody ever suggested looking into the Schluter product range to help with your curb corner issues. Is it too late to look into them?

09-14-2005, 08:21 PM
Hi Ross, did you check to see if that tile comes in a bullnose? I would bevel the grout before using the Schluter corners but that's me. :)

09-14-2005, 09:10 PM
Ross, I considered the various Schluter trims but want to avoid that look.

Davy, this tile (Ceramica Magica Perla) does not have much in the way of bullnose, at least without needing alot of cutting and associated grout lines.

09-15-2005, 11:09 AM
Question on installing the larger (12x18 and 18x18) tiles.

On the walls I will be using 12x18s, the floor will receive 18x18s. I plan to apply thinset to the wall/floor and also backbutter the tiles. Is this the correct technique, or should I "5 spot" the tile instead of fully backbuttering the whole back surface?

09-15-2005, 11:33 AM
Hi Will,
Not a pro here but I think you would alright 5-spotting the wall tiles. The floor tiles must be fully supported so backbuttering the floor tiles would be a good approach. You probably want to wait for one of the pros for their take on it.

09-15-2005, 11:51 AM
Joe, thanks for the quick reply.

'nuther question - where can I find "wedgies", the plastic spacers used for levelling wall tile? The tile shop I bought the tile from doesn't have them, and two flooring distributors also don't have them. Ditto for Lowe's/HD in my area. I checked and didn't find them. Would appreciate a lead on this item. Thanks.

09-15-2005, 12:02 PM
HD in my area carries the spacers, right in their tile aisle. Weird the tile shop doesn't have them, what kind of rinkydink little town you living in? :D

09-15-2005, 01:58 PM
Rinky dink is right. I am a native Detroiter, and in SE Michigan (metro area of millions of people) you can buy anything you can think of 24/7/365. Where I live now (city of 80,000) is like stepping back in time about 30 years with regard to things like this.

09-18-2005, 06:21 PM
Tonight the CBU went down on the floor, thinsetted and screwed. Can I walk on the CBU right away or do I need to let the thinset dry?

I would like to paint the walls tonight, but to do so I would obviously need to walk on the freshly laid CBU.

p.s. Found the tile wedges. Had to drive 45 minutes to metro Philly to find them at Home Depot. 5 HD's closer to me did not carry them. Duh.

09-18-2005, 06:26 PM
If you did a good job, Will, you can get right back on it. :)

Ain't no way we're providin' no excuse for not paintin', which I know is zackly what you're lookin' for. :shades:

I can just see it. :deal: "Looky here, Honey, them experts on that tile web site said I can't paint until Tuesday." :D

My opinion; worth price charged.

09-18-2005, 06:31 PM

Thanks for the quick response. To your signature you can add, "mind reader" to homebuilder and moderator. ;)

09-18-2005, 07:49 PM
Well I had a ton of extra thinset left over, so I went ahead and tapped/mudded the CBU seams, so I got out of the painting after all! :nod: ;) This week will be final color coat on the walls, and trim color on the window casing. Next weekend hopefully I'll start setting tile. Still waiting for a few travertine pencil rails that haven't arrived yet...

09-19-2005, 06:15 AM
Hi Will,

While reading this very interesting thread I noticed something in your pictures of the curb in your post #39 dated 7-31-05 which I hesitate to ask about but feel compelled to do so. Those very neatly spaced dots along the bottom edge of your CBU walls appear to be nails or screws but I'm hoping those are just marks or pre-printed dots that some CBU manufacturers put on their boards......??


09-19-2005, 06:31 AM

Yes those dots are the preprinted ones that come on the CBU. You will notice another row of the dots above the bottom ones. The lowest screws I installed are covered up by dabs of thinset which you can see best on the top picture on the right hand side, well above the pan liner. More prepainted dots in that picture too! :) The thinset in the top picture very near the PVC liner is my tape/thinset joint where the two walls meet in the corner (no screws). Thanks for the sharp eyes! :)

09-19-2005, 06:36 AM
Whew!! Glad to know I wasn't the bearer of bad news....I'll sleep better tonight.


09-19-2005, 06:39 AM
Me too. :)

09-19-2005, 01:51 PM
Getting ready to level my subfloor. What is the best way to find local low/high spots? I think I have a good idea on where it is, it's a 2' x 4' section of a 7' x 9' floor. It's maybe 3/8" - 1/2" out of flatness over a 2' span.

To find the low spot, I have used all my levels in combination with each other: torpedo, 2', 4' and 6' (tool heaven, lol :devil: ), but is there a quick and reliable way to figure where to pour the SLC? BTW plan on using Custom's Levelquik, is that a good product for this smallish job? The SLC is going over CBUs.

p.s. love the 6 foot level, just got a Johnson 9800 at HD last night. :santa:

09-19-2005, 07:58 PM
Question on drawing reference lines. The pattern I am setting does not have lines that span very many tiles, see picture. Ignore the gaps between tiles, I did the drawing with Excel and it's just to get an idea of the pattern.

Tile sizes are 18x18, 12x18 and 12x12. What's the best way to draw lines to guide the setting process? Thanks.

09-25-2005, 07:04 PM
Welp it's time to set some tile. Laid the wall tile out in a dry run and looks like everything will work. Here's a picher of the shower area with the 1x1 mosaic laid out as a trial. As an aside, the drywall surrounding the shower has been finish painted (gray), which was a question in another thread.

I confess to having a little trepidation in setting the 12x18 wall tile. The bottom course will be cut in order to make the top work out. Should I set the bottom course first (a cut tile) or should I set the second course first (full tile)? Seems I have read you can do it both ways, but which is easier for large tiles?

Planning on 3/16" grout lines with sanded grout, sound OK?

John Bridge
09-26-2005, 10:22 AM

I would start with the bottom course, but make sure you allow for a little trimming of the top course in case the ceiling isn't level. Few are.

You can make level reference lines around all the walls to check yourself against as you go up. Measure from the various tiles up to the reference line and make sure your layout remains modular. Big tiles usually consume three times the space of the smaller ones, for example.

09-28-2005, 11:01 AM
Here is a dry layout of my wall tile. Questions:

1. I am assuming the bottom two courses of 12x18 tile on the wall can be set in "one go", meaning the thinset on both courses will be wet, but the 2nd course will be supported by the first. Is this OK or not OK?

2. For the listello in the middle, I don't think it can support the third course of 12x18, because it is on a mesh and doesn't have any structure. Should I set the third and fourth courses, leaving a gap for the listello, then come back and set the listello after the thinset dries on the 12x18 tiles?

3. Following from 2. above, how can I support the third course? Finish nails driven into the CBU, or with some type of wood framed mini-scaffolding?

Thanks as usual for the input.

09-28-2005, 12:10 PM
Support the bottom tile on a temporary ledger board that is shimmed from the floor. Support the second row with spacers. Cut a wooden strip as wide as the trim strip plus grout lines and use it to support the row of tiles above the trim. If this is a shower, don't nail through the backerboard.

Don't forget masking tape!

09-28-2005, 12:27 PM
Bob, excellent suggestion, thanks! On the bottom course, could I just support it with wedges? It should be only 3/8" or less above the mud bed. Yep I have lots of tape standing by! ;)

Yes it's a shower and I didn't think nailing through the CBU was a good idea.

John Bridge
09-28-2005, 05:12 PM
Will, yes, you can use spacers at the bottom. I do that often.

09-28-2005, 06:49 PM
John, thanks! Excellent photo, it shows the situation exactly. :bow:

09-30-2005, 07:31 PM
Question on setting torellos. Do you butter the entire cavity inside the torello with thinset, or just use the troweled stuff on the wall? Or troweled stuff plus some buttered on the edges of the torello?

Seems to me filling the entire cavity is the way to go but thought I would check first.

09-30-2005, 07:43 PM
Filling the void is fine but might make the pieces too heavy to stay on the wall. Use masking tape to hold them up. :)

09-30-2005, 07:57 PM
Thanks for the quick reply Davy. :) Good bunch of folks on this site.

10-02-2005, 11:59 AM
First half of the first course cut and dry fit. So far so good. I'll cut the first course for the other wall and then try to set the wall tile. Rented a MK 1.5 hp wet saw from Home Depot, it does a great job. Cuts a curved line if you try to go too fast. So don't go too fast, eh? ;)

10-02-2005, 07:44 PM
Got the first 2 courses up tonight. Each tile is individually level and also level with all tiles on the opposite wall. The actual tile setting was a little less difficult than I imagined, based on the dry setting. The thinset acts as another set of hands, which helps in positioning of the tiles. These are 12x18s so they do have some weight to them. Now if only the buckets would clean themselves... ;)

p.s. When can I remove the plastics spacers? I want to sponge off a little thinset on the faces of a few tiles, and dig out excess thinset in the joints.

10-02-2005, 08:01 PM
Hehehe, big rookie mistake. Didn't git the self-cleaning buckets. :D

10-02-2005, 09:01 PM
Will, are those bullnosed tiles on the edges? Doesn't look like it, what do you plan to do on the edges? Normally I would hold a tile on the outside of the curb and bring the wall tiles out that far. Is that what you did? looks a little short.

10-02-2005, 09:46 PM
Davy yes they are short and no they are not bullnose. I'm going to trim out the edges of the wall tile with 3/4" travertine pencil rails. I probably won't set them until next weekend when I rent the tile saw again. If you look back a page on this thread, you'll see the rails next to my dry run of wall tile and, listello and torello.

The rails come down and the outside edge lines up with the outside edge of the curb tile and curb top, which will be fabricated granite.

10-07-2005, 07:45 PM
Put up the third row tonight. The wood in the middle is where the listello goes, thanks to bbcamp for suggesting it to me. Tiles are going up nicely, and I learned a bit about lippage and 5-spotting tonight. Had to do some of that to keep things even and plumb. I'll get my 5-spot technique perfected before I need to use it on the floor where it matters more. Thinset coverage on the tiles was excellent, pretty much 100%.

The shower valve that was giving me huge fits with the rough-in turned out fine. In fact I had about 3/8" of extra room in my favor on the valve - happy accident.

Thanks again for the continous great advice and good humor on this site!

10-07-2005, 08:03 PM
Five-spotting is fine on the walls, Will, but don't be doing that on the floor. Gotta try to get full coverage there. Make the floor flat first if it needs it.

My opinion; worth price charged.

10-07-2005, 08:07 PM
cx, thanks you're right about that. Got a little excited about how this is turning out and skipped a few steps of logic. :)

10-08-2005, 07:31 PM
Set the top course of wall tile. Tomorrow will be the listello in the middle, torello on the top and travertine vertical rails, time permitting. After that is the curb and shower pan.

10-09-2005, 03:22 PM
Need a quick reply if anyone can answer this. I'm doing the corner wrap on a listello. The listello is a multi piece mosaic, see a previous page on this post. I have beveled the individual pieces so they fit together very well in my hand and to the eye. Question is how will I set these loose pieces on the wall, since I took them off the paper mesh backing in order to cut them?

I'm thinking I need very tight thinset and masking tape to hold them in place. Is there a different/better technique to set them on the wall so they don't slip out of place?

Thanks for any replies, ideally I'd like to get this done tonight.

10-09-2005, 05:20 PM
Looks like you're already trained on the masking tape, Will, and that's the way it's done. Some spacers to get your spacing and tape to hold'em in place. Spacers can be anything you got that's the size and shape you need.

My opinion; worth price charged.

10-09-2005, 07:41 PM
cx, thanks alot. I runned out of green tape in this session, so the wife runned out to Wally World and brung some blue stuff home.

Mixed up the thinset as stiff as I could; it was like chocolate chip cookie dough. Worked pretty good though, and with the tape I think things will stay in place. Probably used too much thinset because lots bled through the gaps between the mosaic pieces. Wife told me she would pick it all out with dental tools after it dries. What a gal! :)

The corner wrap went OK. The corner and the ends of the listello was like assembling a Swiss watch. Lots of tiny pieces of this and that to terminate the pattern at the end of the wall tile.

10-09-2005, 09:04 PM
Is it a major design no-no to use a different grout line width on the floor vs. the walls? I want to tighten up my floor grout lines to 1/8" vs. the 3/16" I used on the walls. The floor tile will only meet up with the curb tile, and the setting pattern of the floor in no way is intended to match the curb. Technically I could also use 1/8" on the curb as well. The floor does not meet up with the tiled walls, only baseboard/shoe molding.

10-10-2005, 08:49 PM
Probably going to pour 2 bags of SLC in a couple days. Would like to mix both bags together and pour in one go. What is the suggested mixing receptacle and where can I buy one? I saw on a DIY program some guys had black plastic barrels about thigh high that they used to pour the SLC.

Are those standard masonry-supply items?

Other option would be mix in 1 five gallon bucket, pour, mix batch 2 in bucket then pour.

10-14-2005, 07:41 PM
Poured 2 bags of SLC tonight, boy that's interesting stuff. Pancake batter consistency is a good description. It flowed where I expected it to, based on measurements taken all over the floor. Floor area is about 45 sq. ft. I used Custom Levelquik RS. It's been down for about 2 hours, just starting to set up. It's cold and clammy/humid here so it will probably take on the long side to fully set up.

Curb tile and hopefully shower pan tile will go down this weekend.

I was really dreading this step but it was far less problematic than expected. Mixing vessel was a 35ish gallon plastic trash can. Good news is I now have a new garbage can, since a neighbor snatched one of mine. :complain: Nice neighbor. :confused:

10-15-2005, 10:05 AM
Photo of the SLC after 13 hours. Huge improvement in flat- and level-ness of the floor! :yipee:

10-19-2005, 07:19 PM
Curb walls are tiled. Question on finishing the top off. It will be capped with granite. The max depth from the top edges of the tile, down to the top of the concrete curb is 3/4". I'm thinking to fill this with thinset and not fat mud. Reason being is the fat mud will only be 3/4" max thick, and in most places less than that. Plus I'm thinking that loose thinset will adhere to the concrete curb better than a thin layer of runny thinset + a thin layer of fat mud.

Is this an OK way to go (fill gap 3/4" with thinset)? Thanks to all.

Friday evening's activities will be to set the 1x1 mosaic on the shower pan floor.

p.s. Sorry about the yellow tinge on the photo. I forgot to reset the white balance on the camera and too lazy to run upstairs to take another photo.

10-20-2005, 08:19 AM
Bump. Was hoping to get a thumbs up/thumbs down on the thinset question on the top of the curb. Would like get that part done tonight so I can get my granite fabricator in early next week. Thanks for any advice.

Question on the table: OK or not OK to fill the void on the top of the curb with thinset. Max thinset depth would be 3/4", width of the curb is about 8 1/2". Lineal footage of the curb is about 8 feet +/- some inches.

Alternative would be fat mud over a thin coat of runny thinset.

10-20-2005, 09:36 AM
Do the fat mud. That is way too deep for thinset.

10-20-2005, 11:57 AM
Thanks Bob, much appreciated.

10-23-2005, 07:08 PM
Shower pan mosaic and curb walls tiled and top mudded (thanks Bob!). Ready for the granite fabricator to come in and make templates for the curb top. A little cleanup and the torellos and pencil trims will go up.

10-31-2005, 10:25 PM
Still alive and kicking. Wanted to pass along a tip, that the Dremel 511 sanding buff does a great job of removing thinset from tile surfaces, should such an operation be needed. Don't ask me why I know this. :dunce: Let's just say I didn't spare the thinset when setting my listello mosaic. A recoverable mistake but definately a side trip in my project.

Had the marble guy come and template the curb top. Changed my mind and we are going with crema marfil instead of granite. Granite was too intense of a pattern for our tastes in this room. I learned something today, which was how he made the template using 1/8" luan plywood. Very cool technique. First time I've seen it done, although I know it's probably old hat to the pros. I also want to watch the glass shower enclosure guys do their thing when they make templates for the glass panels.

10-31-2005, 10:35 PM
Nice looking shower chassis! Got to two in our house somewhere down the road and hope I do as nice a job :) Yer doing good!

11-03-2005, 09:37 PM
Here's a shot showing the crema marfil marble pieces I picked up today. The fabricator was very fast. Called for an appointment last Thursday, they came and measured Monday, and finished product picked up today. Not bad.

They said if they were installing the pieces, they would use Summitville S1300 thinset. Question - is Flexbond or Versabond an OK substitute? I can probably get the S1300, but going to the orange monster is much more convenient.

11-03-2005, 09:43 PM
I REALLY like that cap, nice touch.... :nod:

11-03-2005, 09:55 PM
Hi Will, you could use Customs granite and marble mortar.

11-03-2005, 10:10 PM
Mike, thanks for the feedback. Do you think 100% solids epoxy mortar is needed? Was reading Custom's data sheet for the marble mortar, and it said thin marble with fiber reinforced backing should be set with 100% solids epoxy. The pieces in the photo are 3/4" thick and do have a fiber net backing on them.

Thanks for the compliment, Will. :) This project has taken a long time, but it's starting to come together.

11-06-2005, 07:45 PM
Today the marble cap, torellos and travertine pencil trims went up/down, as the case may be. Looking fairly decent, if I don't mind saying. Hard to get a good photo of the whole shower due to the size of the room. Next step is to grout the shower so I can schedule the glass guys to measure for the shower enclosure.

Used Marble & Stone mortar for the cap - that stuff is sticky pookie! ;) I like working with it better than Versabond.

11-06-2005, 07:51 PM
Startin' to look like a shower, Will. :)

You don't need no steenkin' grout to measure for glass. Call'em now so's you ain't wastin' more time waitin'. Gonna be bad enough, anyway. :shades:

Just noticed the hole for your shower spout, there. You got that high enough for the head to hang down well below the tile line? You real tall? :D

My opinion; worth price charged.

11-08-2005, 11:58 AM
cx, I took your advice and scheduled the glass people. Due to their schedule and my deer hunting trip, they won't be out for 2 weeks. They quoted me a 5 week lead time after they measure to manufacture, deliver and install the glass. Is 5 weeks typical for a custom glass shower enclosure?

I'm thinking to grout the shower now, and get the grout sealed. That way it will have a few weeks to cure/dry before the glass guys get here. The other option would be to set my floor tile, then grout the whole shebang (floor and shower). The risk with this option is due to my unpredictable hours on this project, I may get caught with my pants around my ankles and not have the shower grouted, or sealed, or the floor tile thinset may not be ready for traffic, etc.

Anyone see an issue with grouting the shower now so it's done and out of the way? I'm not worried about potential small color changes of the grout between shower and floor (done later) because I can manage the grout joints so two colors are not visually juxtaposed.

11-21-2005, 08:36 PM
Anyone see an issue with grouting the shower now so it's done and out of the way? I'm not worried about potential small color changes of the grout between shower and floor (done later) because I can manage the grout joints so two colors are not visually juxtaposed.

Do everything in the shower except for the front of the curb of the shower and then do that part when you grout the floor. That way the grout should look the same color throughout even if it isn't.

11-21-2005, 08:42 PM
Will, it doesn't really matter. I tile and grout all my walls before mudding and tiling the floor. Done it that way for a long time. I believe JB does it that way too, he's old as dirt you know. :D

11-21-2005, 08:51 PM
Thanks for the feedback folks. Glass guys came today so that's out of the way.

I'm grouting the shower tomorrow, using Mapei Keracolor S. Anyone care to point out any gotchas or pitfalls before I embark on my first-ever grouting session? I've read the instructions on the bag, and many grouting posts here, so I feel pretty well equipped, but ya never can be too prepared! ;)

11-21-2005, 08:58 PM
Will, mix small batches at a time. Mix it about like peanut butter but not any stiffer than that. Don't spread too much at a time, just a few sq ft until you can see how fast it's going to set. Let it firm up in the joint a little before washing. Touch the joint, if the grout sticks to your finger, it's still too wet. Now, get to work. :)

11-21-2005, 09:11 PM
For my wall tiles (12" x 18"), should I apply the grout in the usual sweeping movement, covering essentially 100% of the tile area, or should I pack the grout in the joints more like tuckpointing, so that the grout does not contact the middle surface of each tile? The question arises from the fact that my floor is 1x1 mosaic, and walls are 12x18 and wondering if I should use different grouting technique for floor vs. walls.

I imagine there will be some grout getting into the pits of the wall tile? From reading posts here, seems that is to be expected and to live with it.

John Bridge
11-22-2005, 06:20 AM
Will, I would sweep the grout over the entire tile to make sure the pits get filled uniformly. :)

11-22-2005, 06:57 PM
I would cover the floor with cardboard or brown paper to keep it clean. You'll be stepping in the grout that hits the floor, it can be a mess if you aren't carefull. :)

11-24-2005, 09:21 PM
Set some floor tile tonight. Finished pretty much all the whole tiles, the next session will entail setting the cut pieces. The tile sizes are 18x18, 12x18 and 12x12.

11-24-2005, 10:33 PM
Lookin good Will! :yeah:

12-04-2005, 06:13 PM
Spent 7 hours grouting, feels like my body was runover by a truck. I think it came out looking fairly good. All I have to do is seal the grout and travertine trims, and I can stay ahead of the glass guys.

Question for the pros. It took me about 7 hours to grout 65 sq. ft., made up of 12x18 wall tiles, 1x1 mosaics and some listellos/trim. I used about 17 lbs. of grout. The 7 hours included cleanup of buckets and tools. How long would it take a typical pro to do this? Just curious. I realize I am much slower, but want to know how much slower.

12-04-2005, 06:22 PM
Hi Will, looks very nice. If you're talking about grouting the shower you have there, prolly 3 to 4 hrs.

12-05-2005, 08:16 PM
Tonight as I was clearing the ice out of my wet saw water pump lines, and adding windshield washer to the water pan as antifreeze, and tripping the saw breaker because of high current draw due to a cold extension cord, the kind folks that sponsor this site, who live in the other country that starts with "T", came to mind. ;) Gotta love winter in the nortern US of A! Yeah right. :tup1:

12-05-2005, 08:36 PM
Ah, yes, the peoples of the Independent Republic of Texas salute youins bowdark skulled Pennsylvanians for stayin' up there and absorbin' all that cold afore it can slip down here. :lol1:

Well, maybe not tonight on accounta the water in our wetsaw pump lines is gonna freeze too. Maybe by two, three o'clock inna morning. All be better by about ten, though. :)

Oh, and by the way........tripping the saw breaker because of high current draw due to a cold extension cord,That ain't the way it works, Will. All your 'lectric wars are happy when it gets cold out. In fact, they keep on bein' happier and happier the colder it gets. In further fact, it's theorized that if they get to absolute zero, them wars ain't got no electrical resistance a-tall. None. Zip. Nada. So you gotta find you another excuse for your saw not startin'. Like maybe its little rotor is froze to it's little stator just like when you pewt your tongue onna water pump handle. :twitch:

Sleep warm. :)

12-05-2005, 08:41 PM
OK on the cold wars, but when I moved the saw closer to the outlet so I could get rid of the extension, she farred right up. Not sure how to splain that. And yes, when 32 degree water sprays off the saw blade onto your hands, your fingers do get cold indeed. :santa:

12-05-2005, 08:58 PM
Thirty two degrees? Cold?!!

Them boys up to Minnesooota and Wisconsin and Michingan and them is gonna make fun of you big-time, Will. You better delete all your "cold" posts right quick while you still got some credibility left. :D

I ever tell you about the time when it got down to thirty below in Johnstown back when I was a kid? And stayed below zero for days?


Well, it was way back before we even had color tee-vee, and.................:rolleyes:

True story, though. :)

12-07-2005, 03:04 PM
Question on sealing - I plan to seal the grout and travertine trims.

Do I need to seal the polished marble curb top?

p.s. cx I realize thuty two is not cold; I'm a native Michigander. Dad is from the Upper Peninsula (Ironwood) no less. Just trying to make you Tejas guys feel special about yourownclimaticallyadvantagedselves. ;) :fish2:

12-07-2005, 07:40 PM
Question on cutting a hole in porcelain floor tile. I need to cut a round hole for the toilet water supply riser. The center of the hole will be 1 1/2" from each edge in the corner of a 18x18 piece of tile. The hole itself will be 1 1/2".

Q: What's the best option to cut this hole? Drill the hole with a hole saw and hope not to break the corner off? This would leave 3/4" of material on 2 sides of the hole. Or make two cuts on the wet saw 90 degrees to each other, meeting in the center of the hole, then cut out the waste? Then I would have 2 grout lines the width of the saw kerf. Granted these would be partially hidden by the water escutcheon, and almost hidden by the toilet itself.

Since I don't have a hole saw I was thinking of asking the pros at the shop where I bought the tile to cut it for me, but with only 3/4" of meat I wonder if it's worth the hassle.

12-07-2005, 07:49 PM
That'sa big hole for a supply feed, Will. How's come?

Can you move the pipe over a little?

12-07-2005, 07:59 PM
Maybe I overestimated the hole size, maybe 1" minimum. I was hoping to fit the tile over the valve (removing the handle) since it was a bugger to stop leaking last time I took it off.

I can't move the pipe because I've got plywood, CBU and SLC over top of it. At least I can't think of a way to move it. Is it even possible (with the right equipment) to drill a 1" hole that close to the edge?

12-07-2005, 08:05 PM
Oh, yeah, you can drill the hole, Will. Gotta have the right diamond saw, is all, and you don't likely have one. Tile store does, though.

Just take that valve offa there and stop whinin'. Geeez, you ain't gonna make that new floor and then pewt a hinged escutcheon on there, are ya? Hell, might as well cut the notch if you're fixin' to do that. ;)

12-11-2005, 08:27 PM
Quick question on the toilet flange.

Q: Does the toilet flange sit on top of (supported by) the tile, or should the top surface of the flange be flush with the top surface of the tile?


12-11-2005, 09:18 PM
S'posta be on top of the finished floor, Will. Unless you screw up real bad, your tile should be your finished floor, eh? :)

12-11-2005, 09:29 PM
Thanks cx. Caint trust us Yankees ta knows whut a daggone finished floor is, eh? hmmm? :rudolph:

12-17-2005, 03:49 PM
Was wondering if someone could quote me the code section where it says toilet flanges need to be resting on/above the finished floor. Looked through my 2003 IRC and can't find it. Thanks.

12-17-2005, 05:54 PM
I know our friend LazyPup has posted it, Will, but I can't find it. Maybe you're a gooder searcher than moi. :)

12-17-2005, 07:08 PM
This may be the thread that cx was referring to.

12-17-2005, 07:14 PM
Thanks, Rick. :)

I found that thread but couldn't find the code reference in it before. First place you go blind is usually in the eyes. :D

Here is, Will:In the Uniform Plumbing Code the specifications are listed in 316.3.1 & 408.-

12-17-2005, 07:51 PM
Much obliged gentlemen. That is indeed a good thread to have in the liberry.

Should have asked this question in the first place - does the flange need to be screwed into the subfloor? I read that in another thread, and the flange I have has notches and holes to do so. However, I have replaced wax rings on other toilets, and the flange was not fastened to the subfloor in any way.

12-17-2005, 09:11 PM
Yes, you must fasten the flange to the floor.

12-17-2005, 09:44 PM
Some would argue that with a cast iron drain, it is irrelevant, but that is still not a great idea. WIth pvc or abs drain lines, it is required. Think about it, the only bolts that are holding the toilet down are in the flange. If the flange is not secured to something, what is really holding the toilet in place? Plastic drain lines do not provide any significant strength...I'd not want it keeping my toilet from moving around...

12-18-2005, 03:11 PM
cx, thanks for the confirmation.

jadnashua, I agree that it makes sense to fasten a PVC flange to the subfloor.

Welp, had a small victory today cutting a hole for the toilet water supply. The tile is 3/8" porcelain floor tile, and I had to cut a 1 1/4" hole near the corner. I was concerned about breaking the corner off since not much material was going to be left after the hole was cut.

I didn't have a professional grade hole saw, like the bigwigs from Texas use. ;) So I gave it a try with a 1 3/8" QEP carbide hole saw, and diamond wheels for both the Dremel and RotoZip.

The initial hole was cut with fairly high physical effort using the carbide hole saw. The carbide cut real well, but the pilot drill bit was junk. At any rate, I made a very nice initial hole. Too bad the guy with the tape measure didn't get it right the first time. :uhh: Excess material was removed using the diamond wheels for the Dremel and RotoZip. It took a while, maybe 30-45 minutes to get this hole just right. But it saved me the $$ for a "real" diamond hole saw, and also a trip to the tile/stone shop for them to do it.

This is a viable method for a DIYer because it is cheaper if you're not doing this on a regular basis. The extra time really isn't a factor, since I would have been on my way to the tile shop anyway.

p.s. The minimum web of material in the upper corner of the tile is about 1/2".

12-19-2005, 07:56 AM
I had several holes to drill in tile last year. I opted to buy a diamond drill bit. cost was around $50. Well worth the investment.

Matt Clark
12-21-2005, 10:18 AM
Hey! I got that exact same $20 hole saw....don't drill worth a dang. The carbide wore off the pilot bit in about 0.001 microseconds, and even though the hole saw wanted to drill, the pilot bit just held me up...threw the thing in the garbage... :twitch:

12-21-2005, 10:40 AM
Yep I agree but got it to work. Had to rock the tool around in circles to get the carbide to cut, and eventually the pilot drill did its thing. Not a great tool, but got the job done. Also used a spray bottle with water to keep things relatively cool.

Matt Clark
12-21-2005, 10:42 AM
Heck, I made a dam out of plumber's putty to keep the dang thing entirely submerged while I tried to drill on the drill press. Even pressure, plenty of water, still junk. Never did get the hole drilled with it. Borrowed a diamond hole saw from a buddy who uses them to core into clay tile, cast iron plumbing and sewer mains. Good thing I got construction buddies...

12-21-2005, 09:15 PM
Finished the floor tile tonight. The thinset is still setting up and I'm doing some final tweaking. Friday will be spent cleaning up the joints and grouting. Time to clean buckets - 27 degrees y'all! :tup2:

12-21-2005, 09:19 PM
Looks good, Will. Clever touch on the front of the curb. :)

12-21-2005, 09:31 PM
Looks good Will -
If you have any unwanted thinset oozing up in those grout lines... clean it out now while it's still easy! (Don't ask how I know this... ok, go ahead and ask, and check out the last few posts on this thread on my bathroom, especially the one from Shaughnn:
Good luck!

12-21-2005, 10:11 PM
Thanks cx.

Yep Bryan been there, done that, got the t-shirt. I did the best I could to get the thinset out of the joints. But I will probably spend some time with the RotoZip and 1/16" grout removal bit to do the final cleanup. It's not difficult, just takes time. Don't ask me how I know. ;)

Sanding buffs for the Dremel also work on dried thinset. Yep I know about that, too. :rolleyes:

12-22-2005, 12:39 AM
Awesome job Will! I like the tile pattern you made. Quick question though on the floor in the shower. Since those are small tiles, not sure if they're called mosaic, how are they cut so that it perfectly sits near your curb?

12-22-2005, 07:44 AM
Neil, thanks. The shower floor tiles are 1 inch x 1 inch mosaics, they come in sheets of 12 tiles x 12 tiles, attached to a netting material. I laid all the sheets whole, then pulled single tiles off the netting, and cut them with nippers to fit the curb. I suppose you could cut the single tiles while they are still on the netting; it might give you better control of the layout if they are still attached. But a few would still have to come off, since there were some small slivers to deal with.

12-22-2005, 09:27 AM
Question on the vanity backsplash. I'm doing a tile splash, about 8" high, about 7 lineal feet. Was going to use a combination of 1x1 mosaic and the tile I used on the walls/floors.

When using mastic, can I "butter out" just as you can with thinset? The issue I am going to have is the mosaics are a tad thicker than the field tile. Would like to have all the tile flush with each other/no lippage. So if I can butter out the field tiles it would help. The alternative is to use thinset, but I like the grabbiness that mastic offers.

12-23-2005, 04:02 PM
Floor grout is done. It's not completely dry so it appears a bit dark. I'm going to put a small bead of matching sanded caulk at the base of the curb where it meets the floor. Thanks to Shaughnn for the vinegar-on-the-hands cleanup tip to alleviate dryness after grouting/thinsetting. It works!

01-04-2006, 07:22 PM
Need a quick reply if possible. I'm putting in the toilet, and can't get a leak to quit at the water supply. The 3/8" compression fitting is leaking through the compression ferrule. It probably doesn't help that I egged the tubing a little as I was bending it to fit. But I was hoping that the ferrule would squish everything together.

Can I pewt some pookey in there like teflon tape, dope, or plumber's putty?

How tight do you tighten that little 3/8" fitting? I have tightened it pretty good, don't want to bust the threads on the water valve.

Thanks for any advice. Kind of frustrating after the closet flange went in pretty well and the toilet is mounted real well to the floor.

p.s. The tubing length is only 5", so I don't think there is a solution for me in terms of a braided flexible supply line. Is this right?

01-04-2006, 07:40 PM
Well, you bowdark skull! :D

Tubing gotta be round to use compression fittings, Will. Shouldn't hafta be real tight to seal, neither. Pookey don't usually help. Do overs helps.

Usually no reason you can't use a flex line, though, unless it's too visible and you don't wanna see the loop in it. You an prolly use a 12 or 16" flex and pewt a 360 in it. Gives you a bit of a vibration loop that way, too.

Or replace the 5" tubing with one bent with more care to the ends. :shades:

You got a picher?

My opinion; worth price charged.

01-04-2006, 09:18 PM
OK so bowdark might run in the family. Caint hep it I guess.

I did a do-over plus some pookey just cuz I like to pewt pookey on my pipes...

First pic shows a nice egg shaped piece of tubing with a bulb of water oozing out.

Second pics shows, from left to right.

1. Old tubing. Worked on the old wood floor, didn't work with the new tile floor and new closet flange. Dang.

2. Strike 1.

3. Strike 2. Refer to the first pic.

4. New tube plus tape on the threads and pookey in the compression sleeve. No runs, drips or errors.

01-13-2006, 07:10 PM
The glass shower enclosure was installed today. Yippee! The silicone is still drying, and the wife and I are going to wait 48 hours to use it, although we are restraining ourselves to do it. Also pewt the vanity and toilet in.

Now the project is down to finish details: door casing, baseboard molding, vanity hardware and caulk touchups.

Pretty hard to believe it's almost done.

01-13-2006, 08:16 PM
Yep, very nice job. :)

01-13-2006, 09:54 PM
Looks fantastic. Baseboards are really going to set off the quality work when you get them up and/or shoe moulding.

Getting a nice bite on the tubing with a brass ferrule can be tough, especially on stainless steel since when it does grip, it chips the nickel plating off or it doesn't grab at all. A steel ferrule would have done the job better. It's been awhile but I thought brass were only used on copper tubing. I could be wrong.

I really like how that curb turned out with the frameless glass walls. Superb!

01-13-2006, 10:20 PM
I dunno, Will. I hate to be critical, but I really don't think them black stripes onna top of the curb really add anything. :shades:

Other than that it looks OK, though. :)

Boilermaker 98
01-13-2006, 10:32 PM

All of the supply tubes Will had are chrome plated soft copper tubing.

A brass ferrule is the correct ferrule to be using and you use no pipe dope or teflon except a bit of pipe dope to help lubricate the threads on the compression nut.

Nice to see that Will has good taste in tools, the Rgid Tri-Bender, should be in every plumber's toolbox (It's in mine) :nod:

01-13-2006, 10:34 PM
Yeah, the black spripes don't do nothin for me either. :stick: Looks great!

01-13-2006, 10:53 PM
I wasn't sure about that Brian, but if I had paid closer attention to the inside of the tubing I would have picked that up.

As for the using pipe dope and teflon, I agree completely. Thanks for clearing that up.

01-30-2006, 12:37 PM
Well the last tile hurrah is underway for this project. Picked up the last few pieces of trim for the vanity backsplash. Will post pichers in process and finished.

At the tile shop, I asked one of the guys how to do 1x1 mosaics on 2 planes, ref: the photo below and my earlier post. He said the edge pieces are individually back mitred on the wet saw, removed from the mesh. Then the sharp edges can be knocked down a number of ways, including hand stone, "blue pad" with a grinder (after setting), or a belt sander (after setting) with a very fine grit belt. I'm going to keep this technique in mind to hopefully use it on a future project. I really like the look of the mosaics coming together in 2 or more planes.

01-30-2006, 09:00 PM
Here's the backsplash. Thinset is still drying on the stone trims. No grout yet. I wanted to keep it simple, so I used 1x1 mosaic leftover from the shower floor. The mirror in the picture is temporary. The "real" mirror will come down to the backsplash and fill the space between the light fixtures.

Artwork courtesy of my 7 yr. old daughter. :) She's a good kid.

01-30-2006, 09:03 PM
Nice work. :clap2:

03-03-2006, 04:39 PM
Here are the final pictures. The job is 100% finished, and the wife and I are happy with the results. Sincere thanks and appreciation to all who provided advice and encouragement along the way. Special thanks go to Mr. Bridge for hosting this website, and for publishing a very helpful book on this subject. It came in handy. I'll be on and off this site, and hope to have more tile projects to share in the future.

The job took 16 months from start to finish. The timeline had more to do with life events (kids activities and work travel) than anything else.

03-03-2006, 04:57 PM
Bravo! It really looks fantastic. :) :clap1: