Noce Listel Turning Green

[Hokiedale]

Hello All,

My name is Dale, and I have a cleaning question. I have a noce listel running around my shower. When the shower was put in (in September of '04), I sealed all the grout and this listel with TILELab (c) SurfaceGard Sealer. This listel is very porous and I sealed with several applications.

Today I cleaned with Tilex (main ingredient - Sodium Hypochlorite). Now the listel has a green tone/tint. Has anyone else experienced this? Can I reverse this by some method?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

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[Hokiedale]

One further comment is that the tile is travertine. I am not sure, but I would assume that it is tumbled without the voids filled.

Thanks again,

Dale

[GraniteGirl]

Not too sure, but as far as I know Tilex does not play well with natural stone - travertine is a calcium based, relatively soft stone that might well interact with a harsh cleaner. If you read the very small print on the bottle, it might tell you that it is not a good idea to use Tilex on stone.

Might be the cleaner reacted to the sealer - in which case you would be lucky and it would be a matter of just removing the sealer, resealing and never using tilex again.

As far as even needing sealer on the travertine - I for one do not believe it should even be neccesary. Travertine is a sedimentary stone that was formed in water and is as a rule, extremely dense. The holes in your tumbled fininsh will hold a lot more water than the stone itself will ever absorb.

Try wiping the stone listello with denatured alcohol or acetone to see if the green color would come off.

Post a picture and let us know what happened with the solvents.

[Hokiedale]

Thanks for the reply Adriana,

Attached is a picture. As, you can see I am as much of a novice at picture taking as I am on the tile subject. The picture shows the tile at the shower enclosure where the glass wall is cut through. If the picture is clear, you can see the color that the tile should be versus the green tint that I now have. I looked on the Tilex bottle; it doesn't mention stone, but it does say "Avoid prolonged contact with metal and old porcelain, as this product can react with these materials and leave a "rusty" stain." I don't know if I would call the stain I have "rusty" or not.

I dont have any methanol alcohol, but I will try ... what will this do to the sealer??

On your point about sealing ... since this is in a shower, wouldn't the water tend to gather in the voids and cause mold and mildew?

Thanks again ....

[GraniteGirl]

Hi Dale

Are you sure that listello is travertine and not a travertine look-alike? Who was the manufacturer? A lot of the deco tiles look awfully close to the real thing and looking at the picture, my first thought is that you have an imitation stone listello.

As for the solvents - they would remove the sealer, but if the cleaner had a reaction to the sealer, the green color would also disappear.

My .02

Sealing would not prevent water from gathering in the voids. The only way to prevent water from staying in the big voids would be to fill them up with something, and sealer will not do that for you. Sealers also do not prevent chemical reactions between stone and whatever acids/reagents. The main purpose of a sealer is to prevent or inhibit the absorption of liquids and so prevent or inhibit staining. It has been known to happen though - that when excess sealer is left on the surface, some odd reactions could occur. This reaction would be between the sealer left on the surface and the reagent.

[Hokiedale]

Adriana,

The box has the manufacturer as CIR in Italy; The logo has the CIR in the middle of an oval with the word "Manifatture" on top of the oval and "Ceramiche" on the bottom of the oval. The name of the listello is "Antiqua Travertino". I have an extra piece of this and the color is not constitant throughout. I don't know enough to know if this real travertine or not???

Thanks for the continued comments...

[Davestone]

It's not travertine, it's formed and poured.I use quite a bit of it.I would agree with granite girl, and the sealer cleaner combo idea, unless there's some algae involved.I would try a scrubbing brush,and the tilex shouldn't hurt that stuff. :bow: :)

[Hokiedale]

I tested the theory of cleaner interacting with the sealer. I took an extra piece that had never been sealed and sprayed the same Tilex on it. I let it set for 2 - 3 minutes, and it turned green as well (probably a deeper shade of green because I let the cleaner sit longer).

I also tried the denatured alcohol prior to testing the extra piece and all this seemed to do is remove all of the color ... down to the white.

I took the test piece back to where I bought the original and ask their opinion; they mumbled under their breath that "you really aren't supposed to use Tilex, but that isn't written anywhere", so they are going to call the manufacturer on Monday.

If this happend to me, I am really surprise that this didn't come up before .... could I have gotten a bad lot; maybe the color wasn't cured correctly or something.

Thanks.

[Davestone]

I haven't had this particular problem,but of course i don't use many cleaners in installs.Well if it's just the basic makeup of the material reacting to the tilex that's interesting.I wonder if there is a coating on the material from the factory?I have had to clean these with sureclean, which is acidic,but i never noticed this happening.And you've tried cleaning it off, and it won't come off? :)

[GraniteGirl]

Hi Dale

Odd problem indeed. I wonder - do they list the active ingredients anywhere on the Tilex label? Sorry to ask, but I really do not have a bottle of it in the house so I could check.

Are you saying the alcohol removed the glaze (outside color) of the tile right down to the body of the tile? That really does not sound right. Normally regular tile cleaners and most solvents should be OK for use on man-made tiles.

I wonder - what would a paste of baking soda and water applied with a softish bristle brush (like a potato brush) do for getting rid of your mean greenies?

Let us know what happens!

[Steven Hauser]

Hi there,

It is a reaction with the pigment used to color the material. The material is marble dust or travertine dust, resin and a colored pigment. for the resin.

It's terminal. You won't fix it. The pigment has transformed with exposure to the chemical in the cleaner.

Sorry.

[doitright]

Hi there,

It is a reaction with the pigment used to color the material.

It's terminal.


:eek:



Hi Steven,

Is there a way to test for this, prior to install? (Besides using tilex) :shades:

[Steven Hauser]

Hmm.. well it is supposed to be construed as as travertine material, and most people (tile retailers) ought to give the same same cleaning requirements that apply to marble and travertine to this material.

Sorry if my last reply sounded caustic (no pun intended about the affect on the listello.)

I hope it isn't too difficult to remove and replace.

[Hokiedale]

I spoke with my installer this morning and he said that the tiles were faulty and it wasn't just because of the green appearance. He said that the manufacturer sent out 50,000 pieces of tile that they knew were defective (rolling the dice, I guess hoping that they wouldn't get caught). The tiles get cracks and deteriorate with water causing pitting and other issues. He assumed the cleaner just brought out another side effect.

The installer said that he has already replaced a good many of these tiles in other people's homes. The manufacturer is replacing the tile and paying for the labor. If I could replace it (free of charge) with any other tile, I don't think that I would go with this manufacturer ....

Thanks for all the comments.

[doitright]

Hi Dale :)

Thanks for the update! :)