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flatfloor
05-27-2002, 10:58 AM
I'm going to try to watch this tonight. My Problem will be sorting fact from fiction. This is a review from our paper.

May 27, 2002


Revolution united them. Governing divided them.

Brotherly love and solidarity crumbled swiftly once the bold fighters and brilliant statesmen known as America's founding fathers had a nation to run.

They squabbled with pen and even pistol. They split into Federalist and Republican camps. Some were seduced by sex and money, caught up in scandal and deceit. Yet they continued to believe in nationhood.

The History Channel's "Founding Brothers" (tonight and tomorrow at 9 p.m.) explores the post-Revolutionary era, from George Washington's inauguration in 1789 to the deaths of the nation's second and third presidents, John Adams and Thomas Jefferson, on the same day - July 4, 1826, the 50th anniversary of the signing of the Declaration of Independence.

Based on Joseph J. Ellis' Pulitzer Prize-winning book, "Founding Brothers" is a follow-up to "Founding Fathers," the cable channel's top-rated miniseries in 2000.

Los Angeles-based MPH Entertainment produced the miniseries, which uses portraits, artifacts, documents, historical locations and the observations of numerous scholars. It also includes re-enactments and the voices of well-known actors.

MPH documentarian Melissa Jo Peltier, who also worked on the first miniseries, says this production was more difficult because "it's really more about ideas." The process took about a year of collaboration for partners Jim Milio and Mark Hufnail, and writer Kelly McPherson, Peltier said. Shows like this "just eat visuals," Peltier sighs, explaining that there are a limited number of portraits available, so re-enactment is essential to the storytelling.

In "Founding Fathers," the actors' faces were not revealed, but this time it was decided to use look-alikes. Several of the actors were from Living History Associates, a Virginia-based entertainment business whose members make educational appearances nationwide.

Bill Barker has portrayed Thomas Jefferson for nine years in Colonial Williamsburg, Va. "I'm told I'm the same height and weight and of similar ancestry - 6 feet, 3 inches, 180 pounds, English, Irish, Welsh." Barker says Jefferson was "a very poor public speaker," but the actor is used to talking to tourists and school groups each day, costumed as Jefferson. He is shown in this series in many silent cameos, including one where Jefferson makes notes about a conversation under the table at a dinner party.

As in "Founding Fathers," Peter Coyote provides Jefferson's voice. "His voice is calm, smooth, soothing, very placating," Peltier says.

"I would kill sometimes to have a sense of what these guys sounded like," says Joanne Freeman, assistant professor of history at Yale University and one of the miniseries' expert commentators.

So how much of the period's history is fact, how much is speculation? Freeman is cheerfully honest about how much historians tend to disagree. "Truths go in and out of style," she says. She gives credit to The History Channel for "humanizing" the architects of the U.S. Constitution. "Founding Brothers," she says, shows they "were people like us, not gods beaming down from on high, but just a bunch of guys." Also featured in "Brothers" are the voices of Brian Dennehy as Washington, Rob Lowe as James Madison, James Woods as Adams, Hal Holbrook as Benjamin Franklin and Michael York as Alexander Hamilton.

Among other featured historians are Ellis; David McCullough, author of the bestseller "John Adams"; and Richard Brookhiser, senior editor for the National Review, whose PBS documentary "Rediscovering George Washington" airs July 4.
Copyright © 2002, Newsday, Inc.

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John Bridge
05-27-2002, 12:53 PM
Thanks for reminding me about that. Let's critique it after it airs.

John Bridge
05-28-2002, 05:40 PM
The first episode was extremely good, historically speaking. I found one item I could not agree with: The idea that the founders were establishing political parties, i.e., Federalists and Republicans. I don't go along with that at all.

Those guys for the most part were scared to death of what they often called "factions." Political parties would have been factions. The so-called "Republicans" were more often referred to by Jefferson, Madison and others as "our Republican friends," or something along that line. Jefferson himself (probably tonight) summed it up when he said, "We are all Federalists." "We are all Republicans."

The terms were used to differentiate between those who espoused a strong federal government and those who leaned more towards states rights.

Politcal parties, as we concieve of them, did not emerge until the 1820s. The outcrop of the so-called Republicans of Jeffersons era ended up being the modern Democratic Party. :)

flatfloor
05-28-2002, 05:58 PM
I may be wrong but I got the impression the narrators agreed with you. Can't point to a specific point or quote but that is the way I interpreted it. They were also terrified of being mistaken for monarchists, especially GW

Bud Cline
05-28-2002, 06:32 PM
I'm not following any of this, I guess you had to been there like you guys to understand it!!!

Cami A
05-28-2002, 06:41 PM
Had to work- have never had the patience to sit through a mini-series, anyhow... :D This one does sound good, though.

flatfloor
05-28-2002, 09:05 PM
It's over! :)

flatfloor
05-29-2002, 06:19 PM
Well, old Tom jefferson didn't grow any halos did he? GW was a good guy, Burr the villain, Hamilton, I was very impressed by. Series turned into quite a character study.

John Bridge
05-29-2002, 07:15 PM
I think it was quite well done, considering it was produced in Hollywood.

Jim, they did keep repeating the word "party." Then someone would say that they really weren't parties. But Dan Rather introduced the second segment saying something about the "birth of the two-party system." Oh well.

There is one other thing that I admit to not really knowing about for sure. I've been under the impression for years that the people in the Colonies in those days had accents pretty much like the people in Great Britain. In other words, people in the North and in the South would have sounded very much like each other and like their cousins across the pond. (I know the movies have never supported this, but I think it's true.

On the series they had Jefferson, for example, speaking in what could be called a southern drawl, and Adams speaking like a modern-day American from the Northeast.

I don't think those differences developed until long after the founding period and maybe not long before or after the civil war. Nobody really knows, of course. It is something that historians of the period ponder, though. It's similar to the fact that nobody knows the proper pronounciation for Latin words. Et tu, Brute! :)

flatfloor
05-30-2002, 06:00 PM
I meant to bring this up in my last post but it was getting late.

Jefferson was very much in favor of allying with France in another of their never ending wars with England. I can't help but think he was influenced not only by a sense of obligation to France for their help during our revolution, but also as a result of the time he spent in France and the friends he must have made there.

He totally ignored GW's warning about alliances in his Farewell Address. Adams also warned about this.

I wonder what would have happened to our fledgeling country caught between these two giants.

Steve the Spaz
05-31-2002, 06:00 AM
Caught between France and England? I guess we would be eating really great food with really bad teeth.;)

John Bridge
05-31-2002, 05:14 PM
TJ never made any bones about how he felt toward England. He was a Francophile from the start, even before his tenure abroad. Franklin also. Madison went along with Jefferson.

GW was pragmatic about everything. No sense riling the British over something that had been going on for centuries anyway. Besides that, the United States was not in any position to "entangle" itself in any foreign war, even ever so slightly. We had no army per se, and the navy was barely afloat.

The "XYZ Affair" has been the subject of more than one history book. It's quite a story, and to this day, not all the facts are known. Guess they never will be, eh? They didn't mention "Genet," did they? I fell asleep on the second night, great historian that I am. :D

cx
07-06-2002, 10:01 PM
Sounds like this might have been worth watching.

For those of us who don't have television even when we're not working in the wilderness, did any amongst you tape this program?

If so, might you be willing to contribute to my continuing education program by sharing such tape?

I can borrow a place to watch it. :)

C(ain't got no TV)X

John Bridge
07-07-2002, 11:22 AM
Got a feeling it'll be on again. I'll tape it then -- for you and for ME (in case I fall asleep again.) ;)

flatfloor
07-07-2002, 03:36 PM
I wouldn't mind taping it either, but if it's not on again you can probably buy it from the History Channel.