RADIANT HEAT [Archive] - Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile

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KLTINGLEY
07-19-2001, 07:05 PM
I AM GETTING READY TO INSTALL TILE OVER RADIANT HEATED FLOORS, THE RADIANT HEATED FLOORS IS RAN THROUGH COPPER TUBING ABOUT 4" BELOW THE FLOORS SURFACE, THE HEATING HAS BEEN IN PLACE FOR ABOUT 20 YEARS. MY MAIN QUESTION IS THERE A SPECIFIC THINSET MORTAR TO BE USED, I WILL BE INSTALLING THE TILE WHILE THE HEAT IS NOT BEING USED. COULD THE HEAT DETERIORATE THE THINSET.

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Rob Z
07-19-2001, 08:21 PM
K

Thanks for visiting the forum. I don't have any experience with radiant heating-there isn't much of that here in Northern VA (at least the houses I work in).

I do think that the thinset should be allowed time for a full cure before the heat is turned on. Consult the mfr of the thinset that you are going to use for specific advice.

If I had such a job, I would contact Schluter (www.schluter.com) for advice concerning the use of Ditra over a slab with radiant heating. The Ditra can help with expansion and contraction of the slab from the heat.

I'll ask Brian and Bud to check in. They probably have some experience with this topic.

Rob

Bri
07-19-2001, 09:19 PM
I used Ditra over the last 2 radiant heated floors...not that going without would have been a problem...but Ditra is one of the products that say's it works well over heated floors, to control expansion and contraction. A top quality modified thinset is the way to go in either case..but is is recommended that the temperature of the floor be raised gradually, over 4 or 5 days...not all at once.

Bud Cline
07-19-2001, 09:45 PM
I've only done two in the past eight years and when inquiring, the techs said to use a "quality modified thinset" that was it. Apparently no big deal with quality products.

I know commercial kitchens can get pretty warm under cooking equipment and gas fired dishwashers and I have never seen a problem that was directly related to heat.

dan
07-20-2001, 01:38 AM
hi, was curious if your floor has developed any cracks? and if so, what is your plan for dealing with them? john has suggested a floating floor. am going to study the cracks this weekend and try to determine what they are doing.


dan

flatfloor
07-20-2001, 09:20 AM
Guys, I sent Klingley here for an opinion I didn't think there was a problem.

When using an slc over radiant we haven't experienced a problem either. No special precautions.

Uri
07-20-2001, 09:43 AM
Hi guys,
As Bri said, the only precausion is that after the curing period of the thin set, the heat to be turned on gradually only for the first time. Experts says that cement is completely cured after 28 days. This 28 day period is a compromise, due to the fact that over 97% of the cement curing chemical reactions are done by than. If the heat is turned on in full, the rest of the reactions may occur in one hit and they are produceing dimensional modifications at molecular levels. This process, may do cracks or even debonding of the thin set layer.
Best regards,
Uri

[For those who don't know him, my friend Uri Schwartzberger is a degreed ceramic engineer. He runs his own tile plant in Australia. http://www.auzglaze.com.au --John]


[Edited by John Bridge on 07-20-2001 at 04:22 PM]

chip
07-21-2001, 06:30 AM
The biggest concern is that the heat is not on during the installation process.

If the heat is on during the installation, you would have premature evaporation of the water in the setting material which would effect the strength of the setting material.

Turning the heat up gradually would be a good idea.

We would recomend a good polymer modified thin set over a mud bed, if height clearances would allow.

If the clearance required isn't available, use a good quality thin set for 12x12'' tiles or a Medium bed mortar for larger tiles, once again polymer modified.

Art

Uri
07-21-2001, 08:54 AM
Flatile, in his first aproach, KLTINGLEY, said that the heat will be turned off during the installation.
By the way, I haven't been contacted by your wife's son.
Best regards,
Uri

chip
07-21-2001, 09:30 AM
I understood that the heat would be off, just trying to explain the importance.

My wifes son is back home, lost your email address and didn't think to ask me for it. Kids, you know. He fell in love with your country and vows to be back within 5 years, so look out.

Art

Uri
07-22-2001, 10:13 AM
Flatile, I am sorry about that. My daughter is a singer in Sydney, I had some good plans for him.
Best regards,
Uri

chip
07-22-2001, 12:06 PM
Silly him, he missed out on a good time I'm sure.

Is your daughter a local celebrity? Or does her fame go further than that? Your last name isn't Newton-John is it?

Once again he says he was tremendously impressed with Australia and made it sound as it is the place to be. Maybe LL and I will have to try to find a way to come see you and your daughter ourselves.

Maybe I should start my own installation company, everyone says there the ones who make all the money. Ya, thats the ticket.

Maybe "Artfull tile" or "Phenis (don't forget the h)Tile.

Take good care,

Art Phenis

Uri
07-23-2001, 09:31 AM
Flatile,
My daughter definitly isn't a celebrity but she is an above averidge singer. Is doing it on a half professional level, only in weekends. During the week, she is a full time job legal secretary.
Uri