Problem with Aqua Mix Enrich 'n Seal

[rachaelinda]

Help! I'm desperate to find a cure for my slate problem. I had a contractor who layed my slate (about 250 square feet in my kitchen). He then instructed his worker to apply AquaMix's new sealer Enrich 'n Seal. He didn't clean up before he used the sealer and he allowed the sealer to pool in any low lying areas or ridges in the slate. The result was very shiney in some areas and dull in others. When you look at the slate you can see the sponge marks so my floor looks like he took a bunch of mud and scrubbed it onto the floor and then let it dry. He is now MIA dispite my multiple calls to him. (I paid for the slate but not the labor.) It appears to me that I will have to rip up the slate, purchase new slate, and have it reinstalled.

I called AquaMix and have tried to use their product "Sealer and Adhesive Remover." I followed the directions exactly and had to use it four times to get the sealer off my two test squares. I was still left with grout haze. Additionally there is a 3/4 inch square area just inside the grout lines that is lighter that the inside area and it was not affected by the remover. I scraped a small part of that area with a knife and the problem goes fairly deep.

I called AquaMix back and they reccommended I use a urathane based paint stripper to remove the sealer and a poultice or phosphoric acid to remove the grout haze. I tried the phosphoric acid straight (the label said stronger solutions could be used) because I have it. It seemed to have a slight affect on the haze but did nothing around the edges.

I assume the edges are like they are becaused the floor was grouted before it was sealed and it probably had some reaction to the grout. If this is the case, wouldn't the grout/grout moisture have leached into the 3/4 inch areas all the way through the slate. (since this happened I have sealed another are in my house with Enrich 'n seal before the grouting was done and it looks beautiful).

Will the phosphoric acid cause problem with my grout corners? Are there any suggestions you have that I can try before I rip the floor out and start again? HELP!!

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[rachaelinda]

This is Rachaelinda again and I just realized I needed a better title.

[Jason_Butler]

Hang tight Linda,

One of the stone gurus should be around shortly


I don't think you will have to remove any tile..

Jason

[Steven Hauser]

Hi Linda,

The use of the enrich and seal will take quite a while to remove from a natural cleft material.

You will need to use the urethane stripper a few times and with some fairly small tools. The ares around the grout joints will take extrea time.

The use of the enrich and seal on unfinished tiles may result in the grout not adhering to the sides of the material if the enrich and seal spilled over the edges of the tiles.

I'm not sure what avenue to tell you to pursue. The removal of the slate would probably be quicker and cheaper if you were hiring a professional to handle the restoration.

Good luck.

[John Bridge]

Hello Linda, :)

I'm not a stone guy, but I'm going to move you to the appropriate forum, and I'm sure someone will be there to help. Don't remove the floor. I'll warn you, though. You will probably need a pro restoration person to clean it up. :)

[doitright]

Hi Rachaelinda, Welcome! :)

Help! I don't understand what you're trying to describe here. :confused: Possibly it's excess grout because of excess lippage between the tiles.



Additionally there is a 3/4 inch square area just inside the grout lines that is lighter that the inside area and it was not affected by the remover. I scraped a small part of that area with a knife and the problem goes fairly deep.

It seemed to have a slight affect on the haze but did nothing around the edges.

I assume the edges are like they are becaused the floor was grouted before it was sealed and it probably had some reaction to the grout. If this is the case, wouldn't the grout/grout moisture have leached into the 3/4 inch areas all the way through the slate. !!

Please register, so you can post a picture.

In the meanwhile, I'll look into this tomorrow, and post back tomorrow night. ;)

[Rachaelinda]

Thanks for the encouragement. I didn't register because my husband has a firewall and other software on the computer that I'm afraid to mess with. I think my computer rejects any kind of cookies. He is on business right now so I'm not sure what to do. I'll try to register and see what happens.

I would love to find a professional restorer. I have found people who claim to be slate experts but they don't have any suggestions for me. Any suggestions on how to find a professional restorer?

Thanks again for the attention to my problem.

[Rachaelinda]

:cry: problem slate in kitchen and slate I sealed on Fireplace

[doitright]

Hi Rachealinda :)

Thanks for the pictures! They help a lot.

I would say that the 3/4" ring was moisture in the stone that hadn't escaped before being sealed.

Is the fireplace slate different or the same?

As far as treatment you have two options.

1. Replace floor, probably the easiest.
2. Strip floor, including poultice treatment. Even for a restoration specialist, guarenteed results would be questionable. The sealer would need to be removed with a methylene chloride based product (I've had much success with Prosoco's Fast Acting Stripper). The deep set sealer would have to be poulticed out (Prosoco's Limestone & Marble Poultice 1260). The grout residue would have to be removed (Prosoco's Tile & Grout Cleaner). The floor would have to thoroughly dry out. Reseal floor, and after all that, probably wouldn't match fireplace.

[Rachaelinda]

The fireplace slate is exactly the same slate. In fact, fireplace slate is from the same packages as the kitchen slate is.

I think your right. I'm wondering if there was a different level of moisture around the edge of the tile than the center due to the grout not drying long enough. Also, the mud patterns on the inside of the tile could be due to differing amounts of moisture in the tile when the sealer was applied. I did remove the sealer from six squares and the staining is still there. I tried scrapping with a knife a very small strip from the 3/4 inch strip to just past the line. I probably took off 1/16 inch in depth and the staining stayed consistent. I'm thinking a poltice wouldn't help much if it has to go deeper. I'm thinking I just need to replace this floor. I'd like to find a way to get a restorer to come give me a professional opinion so that when I ask (probably in small claims court) the contractor to pay for my damages, I have a leg to stand on. How would I find an expert in my area? Do you think that by looking at the pictures you can tell as well as if you were here looking at the floor? Maybe I'll just have to eat the cost. I never actually paid him for labor but I'm out the slate and the cost to rip this slate out.

Thank you so much for your advice. Linda

[doitright]

Hi Linda :)

Keep the pictures available, they're very good. :nod:

You may need some more showing the grout deposits in the clefting.

Try looking for a restoration contractor at www.ntc-stone.com

[krysti0423]

Hi Linda :)

You may want to contact Aqua Mix directly. I know some companies will give you some samples and/or offer free product for you to resolve your problem. Also if you do contact Aqua Mix maybe they can offer you some contractors in your local area who you can contact.

Good Luck!
Kristy

[kcstoneguy]

I do alot of just stone cleaning here in Kansas City...so let me jump into this fray...the problem as i see it is the contractor did not clean the stone first. This sealer is a penetrating sealer, I doubt if he let the sealer soak in properly, he probably applied and wiped off like he would a normal sealer.

I think if you would clean the floor really good with acid base cleaner, something like Kleenzall, then reapply the stone color enhancer and let it just dwell for a bit, like 15 minutes, it should all even out...of course , the stone should be rinsed throughly and allowed to dry before you seal it again.

Color enhancer has a tendency to streak if you dont apply it right..Also, I think there is some effervesance comeing up throough the stone as well..again because the stone was not cleaned properly...

john jackson
integrity stone
kansas city, mo.

[Steven Hauser]

Hi John J, Welcome, :)

Thanks for your input. I like what you said there.


How's business in KC?

[doitright]

Hi John, Welcome! :)

I'll throw a wrench back in here. Aqua Mix's Enrich 'n Seal is a enhancer. Penetrating, yes, but nonetheless an enhancer. I don't beleive a simple acid wash is going to solve this problem. I agree with everything else you have stated.

Have you done any jobs that required removing a penetrating sealer that is an enhancer? If so, I'm curious to the procedure, and outcome, if you're willing to share. :shades:

[jerrymlr1]

I'm with you John. An acid based cleaner is not going to touch this. Enrich-n-Seal MUST be wiped off within 5 minutes or it leaves a film. Xylene would be the stuff I would try. I would do a test in an inconspicuous area and I bet the xylene breaks down the sealer to where you might get at the grout......but I think the best bet would be to call Aqua-Mix @ 800 366 6877 and ask them for a bit if advice.
Jerry

[kcstoneguy]

thanks for inquiries..things are going pretty good here...not great though...

yeah ,I realized the sealer was a penetrating color enhancer. I have not taken color enhancer out, but we have removed just regular impregnator when too much was used or a residue was left on. I was thinking the acid cleaning would remove enough of the sealer to go over it again an blend it in with the sealer on a second coat. my guess is that if you would work the enhancer in , it should even out enough...just a guess though..

you know , were able to take color enhancer sealer out pretty good on a limestone floor though...we just washed the stone with phosphoric acid cleaner from aqua mix that we got from home depot...that worked real good since they wanted the finish to be a honed finish...you mihgt also try a strong commercial toilet bowl cleaner, this might work...

of course, just theyshould just test a few tiles and see how this works...

thanks,
John

[kcstoneguy]

what is xylene? I have never heard of this..

john j.

[jerrymlr1]

A lot of petroleum based sealers are based with solvents like xylene. You can buy it in the paint section at Home Depot. You need a solvent that will break down the cured petroleum components in the sealer and evaporate. It's not real expensive. Maybe 8 bucks for a quart. BTW I have a floor and walls that I am going to seal this coming week with Enrich-n-Seal. I am going to do a test and let this stuff sit on a piece of stone and dry. Later I am going to see what breaks it down that will let the acid wash get thru.
Jerry

[doitright]

Hi Jerry :)

Yeah, I'd like to know how your tests come out.

As noted on an earlier post, I have removed an enhancer that was oversoaked in a waterjetted finished granite (very subtle, compared to flamed). I used the Prosoco products mentioned. The key as you pointed out is to break it down, then you have to lift it out.

[Davy]

I agree that the white is efflorescence that's under the sealer. The sealer will need to be stripped before an acid product will help take off the grout haze and efflorescence. Sounds like the sealer was applied too soon and the floor wasn't allowed to dry out after being grouted.

[claycarson]

I'd say I agree with John K. on this.

This stuff will need some serious chemical action to leave town.

From having done similar work, I would question if this is truly a 'do it yourself' production. It seems like if we would charge hundreds of dollars and use equipment worth thousands, why should the homeowner be doing this and paying for the job with what is presumably her valuable time? If it takes her three days but a pro would be done in one....is that cheaper?

Shouldn't the contractor who made the mess be on site, forking the cash over to someone who has the expertise to make it done right, and done fast?

Maybe I'm too idealistic.

But you did say he did not get part of his check, right? At the very least, make it clear to him that he needs to pay for this....maybe that will motivate him to get involved.

Maybe not....depends on him.

[RoadRunner]

Linda
Are you still working on this project? Where do you stand?

FYI to all.
Enrich N Seal is a silicon product with very little solvent. Xylene is a very agressive solvent and may, at times, work to break down the solids that are on the surface

StoneTech Professional KlenzAll is an alkaline product, StoneTech Professional Restore is acidic

Some acids may break down the type of silicon that is found in products like Enrich N seal but they can be damaging to the stone and the surrounding surfaces.

Keith
Beep Beep

[Rachaelinda]

After using Aqua Seal's recommended acid based grout and seal remover on six square feet of slate, I was able to remove the sealer. Unfortunately it took doing the process according to the instructions (includes a one hour sit time) four times. When the sealer was completely removed it was clear to see that a chemical change had occurred in the edging and that the slate would never be like it should be. The slate had not been cleaned at all and the mud was in the sealed that had pooled (They never rubbed the sealer off as one person suggested). Even when the sealer came off the staining was deep into the slate. It was certainly bad enough that no poultice would begin to touch it. I decided at this point that the floor had to be torn up and new slate layed. The contractor by the way refused to ever come and see the flooring problem created by his sub.

I hired a different contractor who just finished and who did a beautiful job. I decided the process I felt should be used and looked for a contractor used that process as a matter of routine.

This contractor washed (I should say scrubbed) the slate and then let it dry out. He sealed it and then layed it. After laying it, he grouted it (he never spread the grout over the whole tile) and cleaned it really well. when the grout was dry after 48 hours he cleaned it again and sealed it. It looks great! :yipee:

It was a bit inconvenient but I doubt I'll be out any $ at the end of the day. I have a good, free attorney (my husband). The guy is in the area still doing work.

[doitright]

Hi Linda :)

I'm glad you're on the other side of this project!

No pictures? :shades:

[Rachaelinda]

My project is mostly behind me. I had hired the same guy to do all my flooring which included wood in the rest of the house. I had to find another contractor to do the wood. I have all the family room and living room furniture in my kitchen and dining room now. When it gets cleared out, I'll take some pictures.
Linda