Novice With Vapor Steam Questions......

[mrfun]

Hi, everyone. I'm looking for a business opportunity and have been exploring the cleaning options with vapor steam cleaning. The most frequently used avenue for this type of cleaning seems to be grout and tile cleaning. I'm doing my due diligence now in that regard. In reviewing many of your messages in this forum, I realize there is a huge amount of education I need about tile and grout. I thought you just set the wand / attachment of the machine onto the grout and agitate it with the brush and steam and it cleans it. Then I will find out what type of grout sealer I should buy and use that to seal the grout.

However, I'm learning from all your messages that it's not that easy. There are so many types of tile, I'm stunned. I guess a trip to the local tile store would be the best way to educate myself as to all the different types of tile. Once I do that, I hope I will know my way around this business better. For the time being, however, I have some questions for my first initial education.

- I know the majority of you do not use steam. I would like to know why not. I thought, what could be easier than to steam the grout clean with this machine. It sounds fast, but apparently is not, compared to other methods most of you use. The aspect of not using chemicals I thought would be attractive to my customers, also. It is just because this technology is so new compared to the older methods?

- Generally, what are the pros and cons of steam cleaning vs. the other methods? Please forgive my extreme ignorance at this point, but what are all the other options that you all use?

- Have any of you actually tried the steam machines? If so, what results?

- Do any of you use the steam on a regular basis?

- Does a chemical have to be used to clean the grout with steam? I've heard yes and I've heard no.

- When you clean grout, do you automaticly clean the tile along with the grout, or just the grout?

- What's the best and most efficient products to use to seal the grout? Does it just spread onto the tile and the grout or just the grout? Do you need to avoid getting sealer on the tile if your intent is to just seal the grout?

- I thought I would avoid doing grout coloring, or recoloring, grout replacement, tile or grout repair, etc. because they would be too advanced for me in the beginning. However, I read about some product for recoloring grout in which you just squeeze a bead of this liquid into each grout line and bruch it into the grout, then wipe any excess off the tiles. This seems to be so easy, I may as well offer this service, unless there is a better way, or this way is trickier than it sounds. Your thoughts?

- I'm also having a devil of a time understanding how to price my services. So many seem to price by the square foot, but that seems so scary because if the tile is one size and you base your price on that size, then you're going to get burned if the tile ends up being a smaller size. The smaller the size, the more grout, therefore the more work and time involved. Do you just have different prices for each size tile? If so, what are those prices that many of you are charging? I know I'll have to see what my competitors charge here in Cincinnati and go by that somewhat, but overall, I'm still baffled by everyone having different size tiles. Do you have to see the job first to price it? If so, what is the criteria for pricing? My home has six sided tiles. How do you price that? Do you go by the linear feet is a sqare foot? What?

- Can you price it by the hour? That would be easy, but I wouldn't think customers would like that. Don't they want a firm price as to the whole job in advance? I would.

- Can any of you recommed a good book or video that I could buy to give myself a good crash course education in this business?

- I had a steam machine demo in my home awhile back and it did not take mineral deposits off the grout. (At least the demo lady said they were mineral deposits.) Would a chemical help in this regard? If so, what chemical do you recommend? If a chemical won't help, what would you suggest for mineral deposits?

- What's a good chemical for removing soap scum from bathroom tile? Or is it even needed if using steam?

- If using steam to clean grout, is a vacuum built into the machine better to vacuum the water and residue left behind, or is wiping it dry with a towel faster or easier or just as efficient? It seems that vacuuming it immediately with a built in vacuum would be the fastest and most efficient way to clean away the remaining water and dirt. Of course the machine will cost more with the built in vacuum, but I'll spend the money if the vacuum is the best way to go. I know a wet vac would do it also, but that's more to carry into the home and it's more clutter in the work area. Your thoughts?

Incidentally, I'm talking about using an expensive, commercial version of steam machine, not a cheap consumer version.

Thanks in advance for all your inputs. I don't want to buy this steam machine until I have thoroughly researched this business. Your input will help enormously. Thanks again, everyone.

Jim

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[Chris the Rep]

Jim,

You're not going to like what I have to say, but here goes.

From the number and content of your questions, I don't think you're in a position to make this purchase, let alone go into this aspect of the business yet. Just like someone can have a great saw, a couple of tile cutters and every trowel under the sun, that doesn't make him a tilesetter. If anything were as easy as that, everyone would be in the business. (Some days it seems as if they already are.)

I can understand being impressed by the demonstration of the machine; I saw a steam cleaning system for grout at one of the shows last year and was also initially impressed also. But there were a lot of questions from spectators that were quickly glossed over by the demonstrator or could not be answered to the satisfaction of the questioner.

Unfortunately, there is no one size fits all product or method when it comes to cleaning anything. What do you do if steam doesn't have any effect? Or you run across a cheap older "polished" marble that had more wax than abrasive polishing done to it when it was fabricated and you start removing the shine? Or start with the brush and find that the grout starts coming up in chunks?

I'm going to defer to more qualified members here to get into specifics and play devils advocate. I can think of many pitfalls and scenarios that will break someone without practical experience. With all of that said, I do believe that there are significant opportunities for people when it come to care and maintenance of tile and natural stone. Before I spent the money on the machine, I'd look at spending that money on some more education.

Chris

[doitright]

Hi Jim, Welcome! :)

Chris really summed it up, but I'll add what I can.

What line of work are you currently in? Do you have any experience in the tile or stone industry?

If you're not prepared for making on site repairs to at least the grout, you could be setting yourself up for a huge disappointment.

What equipment are you currently interested in?

Now for some of your questions:

1. & 2. Good equipment is a serious investment. "Clean and capture" is really the way to go. The vapor steam units that I have used were usually the most effective on grout only. The brush tips wear out quickly. We did not have a continuous fill machine. It takes time to heat up the water. Employees usually abuse the machines. Optimally it would be good to have this piece of equipment in your arsenol, coupled with a clean & capture, and chemicals. You need the knowledge and experience to discern what you can & can't do with what.

3. My experience has been with the EnviorVap machine. Very effective on grout. Not too much chance of damaging what your cleaning.

4. Not currently.

5. Depending on the equipment, chemicals may or may not be used. Chemicals do not have to be used. They are not generally required (as the whole idea of steam vapor is to avoid using them), but can be useful on ocassion.

6. Generally the goal is to clean the grout. It must be determined whether or not the tile needs to be cleaned. It's one of the risks you will get involved with. I would rather offer a complete service and dictate to the prospective client what they need.

7. There are many top of the line grout sealers on the market. Our website supports Stone Tech. AquaMix, MbStone, Miracle Sealants, and Prosoco are just a few others that come to mind. You have to follow manufacturers directions for their product. Many should not be allowed to dry on the surface. Depends if you're dealing with tile or stone also.

8. It's no different than getting involved with this vapor steam cleaning as your business. If you don't know the product (grout colorant), how to test for bond, removal techniques, etc. you can get yourself in trouble very quickly. I would include this as a part of my service. I would have resources available for grout & tile repair if I couldn't do it myself (internally). Bottom line is you need a satisfied customer. If you charge and can't get the grout clean or even in appearance, or if grout comes loose during the cleaning process, what do you tell your client (please pay me anyway)? With offering grout coloring as an option, the joints needed to be prepped anyway.

9. Price is job dependent. With the crew I ran, I tried to figure $1,000 a day (2 men). Let's see you earn that and get paid if you don't know what you're doing! :eek: (I don't mean to be sarcastic, just honest.) I would never bid a job without seeing it. You could prequalify by giving a minimum rate up front.

10. Most of my work these days is by the hour, but I'm not only doing restoration work. As your reputation builds, you can establish how to charge.

11. No crash courses that I'm aware of.

12. This is an aquired skill. We usually use alkaline and acidic based products. Sometimes mechanical methods (to include scraping) are needed.

13. Now you're already talking about cleaning tile, not just grout. A alkaline product is needed. Some are better than others. This is when it helps to know what's on the market, and how good product support is.

14. If it's affordable, I'd probably have both. Tools are like candy to me. I love them! I would not restrict this business to residential, with this type of equipment.

Hope this info helps put you in the right direction. ;)