Saving open spaces

[flatfloor]

This has been on my mind for a while now and I even mentioned it to Rob when we met.

It seems as though the entire east coast is on a "preserve open spaces" push. Around here Suffolk County is buying up farmland and undeveloped land and turning it into parks or buying the development rights from farmers and letting them continue to farm the land. BTW, the farmers are not thrilled with this. There are proposals to increase the minimum lot size to 2 acres or even as much as five. The result is a simple summer cottage can now sell for $300,000.

Oddly enough the big push is coming from the newly arrived there attitude seems to be; I got mine, now stay out and NO! you can't build on your property.

I see this attitude in other areas also, for example, Ted Turner and others buying up huge tracts of land in Montana or wherever.

My question is; Where are your children and grandchildren going to live?

Do you see this where you live too?

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[John Bridge]

Well, in Houston the controversy seems to be between those of us who live in the burbs and those who live in the city. Developers closer in have gone to three story town houses and condos that cost a fortune -- "lofts" and the like. None of us burb folks could ever afford to buy into that.

BUT, the new urbanists constantly berate those of us who live further out for poluting "their" air by driving our vehicles into the city daily. The usual line is something like: "I ride my bicycle to work, and here you are trying to run me over with your gas guzzler."

Yes, the greenbelt thing has started to catch on around here too, the result being that developers have to go farther and farther out to build their subdivisions. ;)

[Rob Z]

I think it's time that I ran over a few two-wheelers with my big gas sucking van. Whatya think, guys? :D

[John Bridge]

Well, I wouldn't want to offend any of the folks around here who are bicycle riders.

Just keep them the hell outa my way when I come through there with my pick-em-up truck, okay? :D

[Cami A]

I'm thinking an opinion from someone who has eight acres in a county that's over 50% parks and preserves might be useless here...but more power to those who would live in a loft. Far more fun for the childfree, and I did enjoy living downtown GR when I was in college; didn't get a car until I'd walked everywhere for a few years. It's a great lifestyle, but nothing I could do permanently. Peace, quiet, privacy...ahhhhh.

And, heck yes, I have an SUV now- a giant, gas-sucking, nearly invincible American piece of work. I even have put it in 4 wheel drive to get through the bog they call a "private road"- best part of the drive!

[Rob Z]

This thread makes me wish I still had my Ford Stakebody. 12,500 GVW, 460 four barrel, nearly open pipes, repectable amount of rust, and a whopping 8 MPG.

All the pretty people in their Saabs and Volvos got out of the way fast!

[Bri]

You have to admit..the commute wouldn't be so bad in one of those Volvo Cross Country beauties! :)

[chip]

There is the trend to keep all others out in some areas.

In South Fla. to do that, is almost impossible, due to the total lack of remaining real estate.

But what has concerned me for quite awhile is, who will do the farming in 20, 50, 100 years?

We all came from a farm, or our parents or grandparents most likely.

But if any of you have ever worked on one, you will know that it is in fact "WORK". The kids, and who can blame em' don't want to work that hard and be in debt that much the rest of their lives to provide us with food.

I guess it will be huge corporate conglomerates who will own the farms and immigrants will do the work, at minimum wages.

Chip

[flatfloor]

I have no problem with your 8 acres or Ted Turners 100,000. It's when the government, Ted Turner and the tree huggers try to tell you what you can do with your land that I get upset. With so much real estate being taken out of ciculation where are people to live?

As the saying goes- Invest in real estate, they stopped making it.

Chip I don't know the exact figures but I will bet 75% of farming is already being done by large corps.

As usual we have wandered off the original point of the thread. Who did that? :)

[chip]

I was one of the guilty party, although it is a fair sized party.

By the way, does everyone know the GR, that Cami refers to, is Grand Rapids, Mi.?

A very nice city, it bounces around between 2nd and 3rd largest in the state with Flint. Furniture making is the largest employer I believe, led by Steelcase.

As you look at the back of your left hand, it is about an inch up from you wrist bone on the left side and approx. 1/2 inch to the right. You don't want to go left, you will be in Lake Michigan.

I went to High School 30 miles east of GR, off I-96 and South. Lakewood is the school name, 4 class D schools consolidated, making one class B school. Lake Odessa, Woodland, Sunfield & Clarksville were the towns.

Boy, am the only one who can stay on topic around here, or what?

Chip

[william hendry]

I live in Western NC just outside of Asheville. The "I'm the last one in" mentality is very prevalent here. It's interesting to see people move from the big city, to "get away from it all", only to get here and try to create all the "ammenities" they had back in (big city name here).

Meanwhile population growth ain't slowin' down. Check this out: http://www.projectusa.org/Arguments/doubling.html

[flatfloor]

Great reference Bill.

[Paul D.]

Well you guys 'n gals, here are my perspectives. Believe I relate to a few of you on different levels, including Rob's Cami's, Chip, John....

I grew up in GR in the city limits, but we have a cattle farm 10 miles outside in Ada Township. Dad still runs 90 head of cattle. As farmers, we drove pickups, tractors, stake trucks ('62 Chevy 64) and everything else down the road and around the "new suburbanites". Back in the 1970's no one minded, because farming was still being done here and there. Now, when I go home and help Dad out, the folks living on the land that used to be farms get quite irritated with someone driving a tractor down the road hauling big round bales to their cattle. Sort of humorous, really, but a little sad. Like elsewhere, these folks have tried to box out other new comers by limiting minimum lot size and on and on. Unlike here in Texas, township boards in the midwest seem to be able to determine land use restrictions that apply to a lot of landowners. Not everyone appreciates that.

Now, I was and am an avid bicycle rider too (like any kid in the 60's and 70's). Rode my bike to West Catholic HS on the west side, down to GRJC down town in the winter. No problem... just share the road as a vehicle. Bikes are vehicles and are required to abide by the laws, just like a Volvo, a 10-ton stake truck, tactor, pickup or Plymouth Valiant. As a kid it was the only way. Bike to the farm to rake and bale hay. Bike to the lake... you get the drift. I just didn't loose the desire to bike after I got a car. (I'll bet a lot of tile setters in parts of the world use bicycles to work, too.)

I now live in the 'burbs in the hills west of Austin, TX. Couldn't afford to live any closer (even in 1991). Like anyone growing up near the Motor City, I like my car, motorcycle...and bicycle. The bike is a great way to get around town, cheap to park, cruise neighborhoods, and it helps avoid big traffic delays. I live 18 miles from work, and some days I get home faster commuting on my bike than I would've in the car (or pretty close ;) ). It's great for working off extra enchiladas. :D My kids ride the roads too, and know the rules. This weekend, I give a class to a cub scout troop on riding safely and responsibly. So you see...I believe there is room for all kinds.

My 2¢.

[John Bridge]

You're right, Paul. There's room for everyone.

Well, almost everyone. :D

[flatfloor]

I just saw the solution on ABC. Buy an apartment on a luxury cruise liner for about $5 mil. You don't actually own it, you get a 50 year lease. As a bonus the ship actually goes places.

[J.L. Burns]

i'M NOT AGAINST ENDAGERED SPECIES OR ANYTHING BUT OUT HERE ON THE WEST COAST,I READ A NICE LITTLE DITTY ABOUT THE CATTLE FARMERS UP IN THE MOJAVE DESERT NEAR BARSTOW;IT SEEMS AS THOUGH THE ENVIRONMENTALISTS ARE CONCERNED ABOUT THE DESERT TORTOISE-THEY HAVE ALREADY LIMITED OR BANNED OFF ROADING IN CERTAIN AREAS-EVERY YEAR THEY SEEM TO CLOSE DOWN ANOTHER 100,000 ACRES OR SO TO OFF ROADERS WHO ENJOY THE ENVIRONMENT AND RESPECT IT AS WELL-MOREOVER, THE FEDERAL AND STATE GOV'T HERE IS NOW ASKING THE CATTLE RANCHERS TO MOVE THEIR HERDS-TO WHERE? WHO KNOWS; IN ORDER THAT THE DESERT TORTOISE CAN GO THROUGH THEIR MATING AND HATCHING SEASON WITHOUT CATTLE TRAMPLING ON THEIR NESTS ETC. tHE RANCHERS RESPECT THE TORTOISE BUT WHERE THE HELL YOU GONNA DRIVE 35,000 CATTLE UNTIL THE SPRING OR SUMMER OR WHENEVER.
TYPICAL CALIFORNIA. dID A SHOWER PAN TODAY. THERE'S MY TILE MENTION AND THAT WAS MY .02 CENTS

[flatfloor]

If the turtles are so few in number that they are considered an endangered species, relocate THEM, why not organize a turtle drive? Get the Duke out there, he'll save them. :D
http://images.art.com/images/products/small/10035000/10035151.jpg



[Edited by flatfloor on 04-09-2002 at 10:33 AM]

[william hendry]

It's just horrible, horrible that we humans are going to kill off another species just like we did the dinosaur.

[John Bridge]

Hey, somebody tell JL how to take his caps off lock. He must have hit it inadvertently. :D

JL, look to the left. There's a button that says "caps lock." Hit it.

[flatfloor]

Maybe it's a cheap keyboard. :D

[J.L. Burns]

Sorry guys-I done forgot about the cap lox-by the way would anybody mind if I typed in alt upper lower case for each letter-just teasin I don't want to do anything to jeopordize my enjoyment of this great site See ya later!

[flatfloor]

Jayel, you can use caps as long as you alternate each cap with a lower case letter. ;)

[John Bridge]

I've noticed that on the Internet the younger crowd doesn't ever use caps at all. J.L., you could fool a lot of people by just losing the caps altogether. :D

[J.L. Burns]

I think I'm closer to the older crowd than I am the younger crowd-don't tell anybody