Pain in the ass customers... I need to vent!

[john3764]

Like many of you, I enjoy what I do, really. My customers always without exception like my work. But I have this one irritating problem, other than that, this trade would be perfect.....ok......except OSHA... ok...and Dal-Tile's shipping department. While I appreciate my clientele and the work they give me, sadly they are constantly getting in the way or trying to engage me in a conversation over anything and everything. I am a dismal failure at multi-tasking, I need to concentrate on what I am doing and perhaps listening to Michael Savage concurrently. When they attempt to engage me in a conversation, it's like this annoying fly that keeps dive bombing me. Before work or after work, I'm fine, I can engage them with no problem. I've tried to drop subtle hints to no avail, these people do not get it. Where ever I am working in the house, for some odd reason, they need to be there, or get something from there... FOR THE LOVE OF GOD THEY HAVE TO BE IN THERE!!! I could be tiling the damned sub-area and they would have to be down there for the purpose of trapping a rat.. who knows! What do I do? Does this bother anyone else? Are we all plagued with this problem? HELP!!!

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[oma]

We can't get Savage here anymore. Went off the air about six months ago. Too radical for local airwaves I guess.
To your problem. I'm speaking from the customer's side of the fence I guess. My own customers can't speak the language to bug me in my job, so I don't deal with your problem from that side. It could be one of several things. Some of your customers enjoy watching you perform your job. It's something they can't do, and they appreciate what could be considered an artform. Other customers are control freaks. They want to feel like they are in charge of any situation, and will "supervise" because that gives them a false sense of control. Other customers feel uncomfortable about having anyone provide a service for them, eventhough they are paying for it. They feel they must be pleasant and nice because they feel they are taking advantage of you. I know it sounds like screwed up psychology, but that's what's at play here.
If you really don't want anyone watching or talking to you and making pleasant conversation, you could nicely tell them that you need to put your full attention and concentration on your work because that's how you do your best work. If they can't take the hint, tell them that distractions make the job take longer, and that sometimes means more cost to them. Then there are those people who are just so stupid they never get it.

[Davestone]

Ya got it easy,i live in the retirement mecca.I've had people take their 2 weeks vacation and watch me.Pull up a chair and sit there....the whole time!If you do a job outside, you got people walking by, stopping and asking questions,then you hear,"Well,up north we do it like this". Don't let it bother you,their friendly,and sometimes excited,and curious,and sometimes lonely,their friends and family are dying off,if they're old. :)

[tileguytodd]

Price to Install-as quoted
Price if you watch-double price quoted
Price if you help-triple price quoted
Price if you tried it first and couldnt do it- As quoted Plus Your first born as an indentured servant for 30 years!!! :D

[john3764]

I remember this husband and wife. They were about 800lbs. together. They
looked like a couple of bookends. Every area of the house I was tiling, they
bring two chairs, with a bag of food and watch me until I was completed. I
would go to the next section of the house and they would follow me there,
set up camp with their bag of food, plop that ass down and watch me through
the duration of that portion of the job. This went on throughout the entire
house.......<sigh>

P.S. Farting doesn't work

[LadyGodiva]

Maybe they think you're cute? :D

John, I do understand your need to vent, but the same way you have 'pain in the rear' customers, there are pain in the AXX trades people and some of them screw up big time. I'm on a kitchen remodel forum and half of the people are pleased with their GCs and subs, the other half talk a lot about shabby, lazy or rude workers. So it's on both sides.

I'd leave you alone if you were doing a good job though :D

[yadax3]

John,

I don't know if you've ever run into anyone like my dad but if you have, you've got my sympathy. He's always been an avid reader and can talk endlessly on almost any subject. And he can't take a hint either. When all of my escape attempts fail, sometimes I just walk away while he's talking. It's either that or wet my pants for goodness sake. :D I've always felt so sorry for the people he hires to do various jobs around the house when I see him sitting at the bottom of their ladder (or whatever) yakking away. On the up side, Jehovah’s Witnesses love my dad because he’ll debate religion with them all day. :rofl: I love him too, of course. :)

Anyway, if I’m home when trades people arrive at my house I show them where to find cold drinks (the garage fridge), ask them if they’d like some lunch and if so, ask them to let me know when they're ready to take a break. Then I let them know where I’ll be – usually in the office at the computer, just in case they need anything. Then I leave them to their business. I don’t hire people I don’t trust and if they lose my trust, I don’t make the same mistake twice. ;)

[smee]

Hey that's funny Todd - the first tile guy I worked with when I started doing mosaics - he's been doing tile for 25 yrs or so in San Francisco - he gave me the best advice to date; "what ever time you think it'll take you...double it. However much you think to bid...double it. If they want to watch tell them the price doubles and if they want to help, it triples." I laughed at first, but you know what - it's absolutely true!

and what dave said - if you tell them in a nice way that 'hey, I really need to concentrate on this job and if I keep chatting with you (smile) it'll take forever'

Something like that usually does the job.

I always thought it funny that the trades don't teach how to deal with customers - maybe they do - I don't know but it seems like it's invaluable...or they could work in a restaurant and learn how there :)

[tileguytodd]

One job i had an older gentlemen directly over my shoulder while i ws installing 18x 18 tiles(one of the first large formats i remember was marketed by Tarkett about 15 years back) it was my first 18 x 18 and it was a lug back to boot so i was using a 3/8" notch,full sprading the backs of each tile.Each time i did this the guy behind me would say
"your not doing that right" I had 4 tiles down and was flattrowelling the back of the 5th and he yelled in my ear
"I said your not doing that right"
I turned around,glared at the guy and said
"What is your problem".He said,"If your not going to do it right,dont do it at all."I said fine.I picked up my tools packed up and left.
Next morning here comes the guy into the shop with his wife.
his wife says to me"my husband has something to say to you"
He apologized and she then asked if i would please complete the job.I hesitated just long enough because she added.And he will not be there :)

Now he may have been the nicest man in the world although i didnt see that side of him.I have never forgotten him though and ive gotten good at giving people "THE LOOK".It hasnt failed me for years and theres no mistaking what that look means ;)

[John Bridge]

So John, you haven't been around here in a year or so. Stop in to bitch, did ya?

:D

[flatfloor]

My old partner would "accidently" hit the shoes of a talky architect with a shovel full of sand or else raise a cloud of dust with his broom. :)

[john3764]

So John, you haven't been around here in a year or so. Stop in to bitch, did ya?

:D


Haha haa .... yeah... I thought I would drop by and see what was going on. :)

John

[Davestone]

An old tile guy i worked with always got the house to himself on new construction, he used a leaf blower as a broom. :)

[John K]

I agree with Todd. The look usually says it all. I would have probably put the trowel in his hand and said " go for it". The older I get, the less tolerance I have for peoples b.s.. :)

[sdaniels7114]

I find the broom trick to be the best way to get everyone out of the room I'm working in. Including other contractors. Its too bad you have to sweep it again, the right way, after the dust settles back down though.

[john3764]

I agree with Todd. The look usually says it all. I would have probably put the trowel in his hand and said " go for it". The older I get, the less tolerance I have for peoples b.s.. :)

AMEN BRATHA!

[T_Hulse]

Keep your body turned away but slowly turn your head towards them. Left eye squinted to a tiny slit. Right eye open exaggerated as far it will go. Show 'em your whole eyeball & raise that right eyebrow way up as high as it will go. Left squinted eye now starts to twitch just a little. This will take lots of practice. Not the full blinking type motion, but a barely perceptable tiny muscle spasm type twitch, like you're really trying to hold it under control. Now draw your face taught so your ears go back slightly & your forehead raises a little. Drop just the corners of your mouth a bit. Concentrate on them for a few seconds like that, then slowly start to curl just the left of your top lip, teeth gritted. Now really tighten your neck till the viens show. This may cause your head to vibrate a little. If you're lucky & have the right face this may also cause some forehead veins to start showing.
If you're doing it right they should be running away to dial 911 by now. Be careful with this face! I usually reserve it for only for likes of electricians or finish carpenters on a big job :monster: :)

[Shaughnn]

Tom,
I just pulled a muscle behind my ear trying to imagine "the Look". My wife stopped reading her book and the cats ran out of the room. If we can harness this sort of power, no one in the world can stop us! :crazy:
Shaughnn

[Raymond S]

If you can do all that, you've probably got a future in horror movies.

[LadyGodiva]

I'll be sure to hire only really cute looking tile setters so when they give me that 'look' it won't be half as bad as yours :D

[T_Hulse]

Hey! Who says I'm not a really cute lookin tile setter?? :monster:

[tileguytodd]

Tom, we are trying to make them backoff,not drop dead of heartfailure.it does no goo if you dont get paid!! ;)

So what exactly IS a cute tilesetter LG?? and do you have to have a Parrot on your shoulder to qualify :D

[COBALT]

I think the first thing to do is take Michael Savage in moderation. I used to listen to that guy whenever I worked on my truck, and realized I got angry and frustrated with my work more easily - stripped bolts and nuts, cracked knuckles, and thrown tools. He just got me all pumped up.

Now it's music all the way, and if it's something I need to focus on? Mozart, Beethoven, Tchaikovsky...those guys saved me on this bathroom tile job.

As for "customers" - I think for the most part a lot of people are pretty well disconnected from the realities of this kind of work. I have an eye for detail, and I'm a perfectionist, subborn, determined, and I do NOT like being in the dark about how something is done or how things work. Not everyone is like that. I get labeled a "control freak", which is a bit unfair, because I just want things done right.

There are plenty of people who'd rather sit and eat a bag of chips than even think about doing the work themselves, or even knowing how it's done. Period.

...but that doesn't mean they have no curiosity, or think they have to be involved on some level.

Some will just hang out. I think they're compensating for not being able to do this as a child. The parents didn't do any projects or jobs that they could watch or take part in, so they do it with the people they hire. Unconsiously they may even think you like them hanging around!

Some will try to identify with you. They feel inadequate because they aren't down on their hands and knees doing the job themselves. Usually they just need a push in the right direction - any direction away from you. Those are the ones who need to politely be told you need to concentrate.

Some will NEVER be satisfied. These folks are control freaks, or simply don't want the project to ever end. The control freaks don't care who really has the knowledge. They just feel better in a position of dominance. Let them have their little Throne, and just get the work done. It's a hard ego buster. The folks who don't want the project to end just can't seem to finish ANYTHING in their lives. End it for them, by making yourself unavailable at the end of a key stage of the project, or you'll end up like that painter guy on Murphy Brown.

Some will stand around and heckle. These people need to be dealt with quickly. Otherwise it's a matter of time before the project ends badly. They think they're being funny and entertaining, but it can be borderline insulting. Telling them a lack of focus will impact the quality of the job usually stops it, but if it doesn't have a chat with the contractor, and see if you can invent ways to get the chuckle-head off the job site for stretches at a time. It's the general's job to deal with this guy anyway.

Others will want to help. Since I'm one of these guys it's hard, because I'm actually quite an asset, but you wouldn't know that off the bat unless you worked with me. So, usually give the guy space, but I let them know I can do a whole lot to make the job a hell of a lot easier, and don't hesitate to give a shout of they need stuff. Once we talk a few times they realize I can speak their language to some degree, and it becomes easier. Therefore, give the needy home owner simple jobs to make your life easier until you can guage how much they REALLY know. Then give them jobs that can reduce the amount of time you have to spend there - especially on a job you bid.

[LadyGodiva]

Todd, no parrot required if the guy is cute :D

But he might have to put up with me watching him all day though :crazy:

Hope Gerard doesn't read this :yeah:

[John Bridge]

Somebody post the Cliff notes on Corey's reply, will ya? :D

Tom, you're too big to be cute. Try for likeable or something like that. Todd, you too. :D

[tileguytodd]

John,niki says to tell you :tongue:
Ruggedly handsome was the words she used ;)

[T_Hulse]

Especially the ruggedly part, right? ;)

Corey I've seen your work, you got skills man, but I'm sorry there are only 2 kinds of customers: Not Present, and PITA. :D Unless they've been trained to do it my way, or who ever the journeyman is, then they haven't been trained at all. Unless they are a full blown, full time journeyman with 100% of the skills & motivation to do it just as good as me, then they need to be babysat... on everything. There are no small jobs. Even mixing mud or cleaning tools has to be done just right, and it just takes more time to train someone for one job than to do it yourself. Even if they don't need to be trained it still takes more time for me to babysit them so I can find that out for myself. Plus, having the owner help (read 'watch over your shoulder while trying to help') almost always puts the journeyman on edge. Training someone to do it your way or babysitting someone new also puts them even more on edge. Do you want your tile setter on edge or in a groove? :)

[tileguytodd]

Sometimes more Rugged than other times Tom ;)

[tileguytodd]

She seems to think i clean up pretty good when not in Carharts and toeless Boots :D
My dad and I at youngest brothers wedding this past June.

[RandyL]

GEEZZZZZZZZZ.........like night and day......in the first pic you look like "Billy Jack".......in the next, you look like John...are yous related? HAR HAR :)

[LadyGodiva]

Is that OUR Todd??? :crazy:

How soon can you work for me???? :bow: :D

[tileguytodd]

And that was my Bad side Eli :D :D :D

[LadyGodiva]

It was??? :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:

Now your ego should be set for another 10 years or so :D

[tileguytodd]

At the very least ;)

[New2Tile]

Hey all,

I just picked back up on this thread again because I think it raises important issues. I'm reading through other people's horror stories with botched jobs and I think, if (when) I hire a tile person to do work for me, I will have a long talk with them to find out how they plan to do the project.

I've talked to tile people about potential projects and gotten kind of condescending responses to how I want things done. They know better and I'm just a dumb homeowner. Guys out there, you might not get this, but for us women, it's like taking my car to the shop for service. When I get talked down to in that "you're a woman and don't know what you're talking about so I'm going to speak s-l-o-w-l-y to you like you're a 2nd grader" my hackles go up and I know I'm going to respond in an angry manner. I will also lose my trust at that point.

The guys and gals that participate on this board are pros and would never pull the wool over the eyes of unsuspecting and inexperienced homeowners. But there are tons of people out there who would. How would you suggest screening potential tile folks without being a big pain in the back side?

Once you hire someone, is it then okay to check on them every once in a while to see how they are doing things? And if they are doing something you know is wrong, stopping them or questioning them on it?

I guess what I'm asking is, how can an informed home owner keep up on the project and not get in the way? I'd like to hear from the tile pros what they think a good balance is if someone wants to make sure the project is done correctly.

Wow, I guess that's my vent from the customer side!! :uhh: No offense intended to the tile pros here, because I know none of you do this. :)

[flatfloor]

Get a written proposal on EXACTLY how the job will be done.

[jjwq8]

Then post it here........and wait.

[opiethetileman]

Well I get 95% of my work by word of mouth. So most homeowner just open the dorr and leave me alone. When i reach a problem I go and get them show them and explain it to them I also carry books of what should be done to back me up. Some of the people I owrk for check on the progress and ask ?'s which is fine but Im there to work and get done not to make a career. I also write out the estimate in detail of what is going to be done. I have now used a sliding scale for estimates on larger projects. That way they know the worst case is going to be this high and the best case is it is going to be this price. I leave about a 500 to 600 dollar range for that. When pulling up carpet and you have to flaot the floor or tearing out a shower and having to fix wood that is rotten this what that ballon price is for. Now dont get me wrong I dont use it to get the max money out of them but if i do use at least we are arguing that the job was more. I found that it is a safe zone for everyone to be happy at. I do alot of Hardwood floors as well. And there are alot of surpizes in that floor feild.


But yes the homeowner should be able to pop in ask ?'s and see the progress. I would rather fix it today that tommorrow after the tile has dried. Or come in the the next morning to world war 3.

Yes I do get thosse very rae few customers that are picky and a pain but I tell myself Its worth it in the end because If I can make medussa happy then I can make her freind happy as well.


Good luck

[jjwq8]

Medusa Dan?
Dammit don't you know the difference between Homer and a Florida phone book? :D
Seriously though, your attitude and trade craft is admirable and an indication of why you are a success.

Oh and for the record Medusa represents sovereign female wisdom. Another good choice :D

[LadyGodiva]

Dan, your customers are lucky! You don't plan on moving to Oklahoma soon, do you? :D

[opiethetileman]

No Lady why you ask??? Thanks for the compliments. All I do anymore is try to teach myself more and more. The money aspect of tiling does not matter to me anymore. To see a smile or a referral means more to me than 10 bucks anymore.

[John Bridge]

Kathy, I think you have to hunt around. Do your homework. Ask for references, lots of them, and call the people. I've said it before around here, and I'm not exagerating. When you call one of my customers he or she will absolutely rave about me. If that doesn't happen consistently as you call the references, I'd move on to the next person. People who are happy with someone's work will tell you that emphatically. If they are not pleased as punch, move on.

Once you do that and get lined out with the contractor of your choice, let him/her do the work without nagging. Check things out after the person goes home in the evening and bring up discrepancies in the morning. Now if you see something blatant, you have to bring it up on the spot, but if that happens, I don't think you have done your job in checking the person out. ;)

[cx]

Much as I hate it, I gotta agree with JB. ;)

Only thing I'd add is that I tell my customers that if they see something in progress that they really think is a problem, it's fine to bring it to my attention immediately. If I say not to worry about it, don't, it's not a problem. Then they feel reassured and everybody is more comfortable.

My customers like me even better than John's customers like him. That's partially because I'm a nicer person. :p

[flatfloor]

This from a guy with 2 felony convictions for.........oops, forgot those were back when he was eleven and the records are sealed. :rolleyes:

[opiethetileman]

your new nick name flatfelony

[tileguytodd]

Kathy, you are in the twin cities.abandon ye all hope of finding anybody who tiles like the rest of us on here ;)
Now Stullis is fairly close to you and might be convinced to come see you.
Last time i came down that way was for one of our folks on here.You dont happen to have 1100 s/f of granite you need installed do you?? :D

[New2Tile]

Todd, I wish I had a bunch of granite to install ... if only I could win a lottery... oh, where did I put that ticket? :)

Thanks for your input everyone. So checking in and conferring with the pro is okay, just let him/her do the job. Check.

One thing I did was to hook up with Angie's List.com. Do any of you have experience with them? I hired a plumber through them and I've been really pleased. I'd be curious to know any tiler's experience.

John, I'll take your advice and really seek out referrals. I usually am not that thourough because I'm impatient. But, to get good work, I guess I need to do my homework.

Lastly, is there any certification or anything that would separate a pro from a hack wannabe? Like T.P.G. (Tile Pro God/Godess)? Or similar? Are true tilers considered to be journeymen? Would a true tile person have a portfolio to show potential customers?

Any other suggestions would be appreciated. Maybe the first screening question should be -- how many posts do you have on the John Bridge TYW Forum!! :D :D

[jjwq8]

Kathy, do not make that a criteion. There are a number of us here who are professionals (or so we like to think) in fields other than mud work, but I'm guessing an email direct to the emperor of these here parts would not go unanswered :D

[tileguytodd]

Oh Crap, i almost forgot Colleen Kathy.she's a goddess in geometrics right in st paul.
ninemile on here.try giving her an email.tell her i sent you and i said dont make me come down there :D

[New2Tile]

Have any of you tile pros gotten work from AngiesList.com? I'm not sure how many cities they serve, but I think they're in the biggest metro areas. They're a consumer group that rates different service companies in the cities where they're located. Good service equals good ratings and so more referals.

Do any of you have experience with them (or a similar company) good or bad?

[Steven Tiler]

Oh baby ive had a few.... I had one guy who never left me akone at all... constantly looming over me, he was from newfoundland, and very friendly,he wouldent leave me alone, im part newfie so i know how chatty they can be but this guy was just so annoying. i also have had customers phone the shop and colplain like nuts because i put in the 1/4 round and they assumed it was my job to paint the cut ends and fill the bradnail holes/paint. ive had others who thought they were gc's they turned out to be great 30.000 $ customers and still want me to do a basement shower, but i had talked to everyone on the job, all the trades were all at the point of walkin out, i think the owner was a "cocaine" guy/dealer, wouldent stop sniffing and extremely moody/hyper perfectionist controlfreak .. i made sure my dad/parrtner was there with me so if the guy started bugin us we just pretend to talk to eachother, then hed leave us alone because wwe'd look like he was inturupting us, ive had to tell people "look i enjoy talking to you but im here to do my best job possible and in order to do that you must leave me to my work, if you have any ?'s or comments please let me know but once weve talked and i start i need my full attention, that usualy works, ive also actually gone to the efort of coving the entrAnces/ doors with plastic drop cloth, then tape it sealed so they cant come back and forth in your area, plus it looks like your consious about dust prevention and theyre respitory health lol

ive also found wearing hearing protection or even "ipod" earplugs from a walkman etc, even if its not turned on the customer still usualy gets the hint that you cant hear them or whatever,

i even know a guy who used to pretend to speak broken english LOL

say you just had dental surgery or a bad tooth cant talk unless its nesesary cuz of pain.

lol ive even tried eating a everything bagel with herb and garlic cream cheese LOL (breathe on custy) lol

that last one was a joke lol. ive dun it tho non incedentally :)

i find a helper or parter with you minimizes inturuptions,

if all else fails you could start a conversation about religion or something, depends on the person.

lets hear how you guys have set customers straight,
i have a countertop with benissimo granite system to do 6 feet long,
i checked it monday aranged to be there tues morn beetween 830-9

i phoned b4 9 and said that the weather looks like its not going to stop
the guy had attitude and said WEVE BEEN WAITING FOR YOU SINCE 830
(when i awoke at 630 it wasnt bad just atarting to acumulate snow on ground like a half inch by 730. i figured it wouldent last once it got a bit warmer by 9 i figured it be fine but it contined to snow bad without any sign of stopping

i had the old retired azzhole expect me to use my wetsaw to cut britle granite outdoors in the hard blowing snow...and plywood, i said id have reschequele, he got mad said he emptied out all his counters etc he said,

the previous day it was raining and called for rain/drizzle the day of the job, i told him that i have an 4 post canopy style gazebo type awning, i use sometimes when its raining to cut under. ( MY DAD SAID THAT I SHOULD OF NOT SAID SO MUCH THE FIRST DAY AND NOT TO BE SO EAGER TO GO OUT OF MY WAY TO WORK IN THE ELEMENTS, HE SAID JUST SAY WE CAN START TOMOROW., "WEATHER PERMITTING") That is what i will say next time,.

i told him if it was spiting rain i could get away with it without the awning and simply keep the sawcovered with a plastic tarp..but we didnt expect snow in april lol, ps he has no garage or covered area to cut at, plus my wet saw is a huge one.
then he wondered why i couldent just come in and do the ripout of existing countertop.. what an idiot.. i said well theres not much point , i usualy do the ripout, install plywood and tile all in the 1st day with a countertop that small.

the shop opens at 930 so i told him id phone the shop and then get back to him well she shop agreed its not safe or smart to be cutting granite in sub 0 temps outside in the snow with electricity and a wetsaw for safety/even insurance reasons, what do you guys think, how would you react/ respond.
thanks Steve

[pooky]

not only do they cut dangerous noise levels but are pretty much
like a giant do not disturb sign on top of my head when I have them on.

they always work to discourage any conversation without offending:cheers:

stephen

[Clay Clemmer]

Leave a can of Acetone or polyester resin open at all entrances to the work sight, guaranteed to limit customer involvement. Better yet open some Latepoxy 310 rapid set, smells like sewer water:loaded:

[dhagin]

Clay, i likes the way you think. ;)

[lati_cz]

Had a customer. He was from Russia. Really nice house, good taste, loaded with $. I did bathroom remodel for him. He wanted complicated Grohe plumbing in shower. On one side he asked for shower head and jets, on opposite wall (next to the toilet) he asked for bidet. I was looking at him, told him he can’t have bidet in the shower. He wanted flexible shower hose on the wall, he said “when my wife gets bleeding, she can pull the hose from shower and wash her vagina on the toilet”. I was red like Russian flag, my helper run away. I wanted to laugh sooo bad but I did not want to loose the job.
He got it