Why "artists" need supervision

[Shaughnn]

Hi all,
Here's a link to a story about a mosaic artist who's just recently installed a large mosaic in the lobby of a local library. The "artist' completely skrewed the pooch here and I can't believe that the city is going to PAY HER to fix her mistakes. :bang: She got paid $40,000 and she couldn't even transcribe the names that she was given accurately? People like this make me want to stand in their face and SCREAM! All the puiblic is going to see is "tile = bad", and we will have yet one more preconception to overcome when plying our trade. Crap, I think anyone who calls themselves an "artist" needs to be kept on a very short leash! Real artists just make their art and don't make bones about it. It's the pretentious twits that give black berets and soft cheese a bad name.
::tirade off::
Shaughnn

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2004/10/06/state1835EDT0229.DTL

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[Bri]

There's a link to her site on your link. Her stuff isn't really what I'd call mosaic..the hand painted peices are quite large...not little peices made to create a bigger picture. Interesting though. :twitch:

[Shaughnn]

The center-piece of the mis-spelled mural is listed in her "Ceramic Installations" section as "Livermore Civic Library". Maybe I'm just jaded having grown up with Robert Arnesonand Judy Chicago as neighbors, but Alguilar's work is pretty vain and self-congradulatory in my opinion. Either way, I'ts my opinion that when an artist accepts a commision for work, he or she ceases to be an "arteest" and becomes a contractor, with all the obligations that entails.
Shaughnn

[Bri]

She should at least, cut of an ear and mail it to them. ;)

[thevillageinn]

I think there's a difference between artists and primadonas, unfortunately it's not widely understood

[John Bridge]

Philistines!

;)

[Steven Hauser]

:uhh:
Her stuff looks neat on the website.

[smee]

Okay Okay - wait a cottonpicken second.


I resemble that remark....I am an arteeeest.


However, I do take exception to the generalizing tone on the lameness of artists.

I agree the girl isn't bright - and that was so lame it boggles the mind. Mosaics? I don't know. I've never seen her work. And yes, that was El Dumbo Grande.

I would certainly have liked that job....and I can spell - and hey - I even know enough about laying tile to pass the "arteeest tile layer" test from Shaughnn...I think.

[Steven Hauser]

Linda,

Are you asking me to supervise your installations?

:D

[COBALT]

Part of her artisan toolkit should probably be a Dictionary. I've seen enough misspellings on signs, gravestones, statues, and streets to know it would be a bad idea to simply assume I spelled it right.

[smee]

Well, according to the artist catagory I am in -
I am in need of supervision.

Or a spelling bee :laugh2:

[Westie]

[
I agree the girl isn't bright - [/QUOTE]

Well lets see she got $40,000 to do the job and then another $6,000 to fix it. Sounds like she is brighter than those that hired her to do the work in the first place.

Edited for spelling mistakes LOL

[Davestone]

I like her excuse though,maybe i'll try it next time i make a $6,000.00 boner! :rolleyes:

[flatfloor]

So...was Michaelangelo a contractor or an artist? :)

Just sent her an email, told her she was full of crap.

[Shaughnn]

Linda,
You've got us to look after your work. I think you'll do fine. :rofl:

Michaelangelo was an EXTREMELY talented contractor, in my opinion. His client-list WAS the most powerfull and the most demanding of the time, and he served them all well. But he also had monumental headaches when negotiating his contracts and time schedules.
Shaughnn

[flatfloor]

Had a hard time getting paid too.

[smee]

yes, he did. That Pope Julius - he was something else wasn't he. I wonder what people today would say if Pope John Paul got an army together and marched into Iraq and took over....it's akin to what ole julie did in his time - they didn't call him the warrior pope for nothing. And it's true, they did drive eachother crazy. Michaelangelo was so angry and upset and paranoid that he fled Rome for two years - the pope practically had to beg him to come back and continue working. Have you heard of the statue of the pope Michaelangelo (spelled Michaelangelo ) did in bronze? The largest ever cast since antiquity...Michealangelo had never even done bronze work before - Julius didn't care - he said do it anyway. It could have been a HUGE disaster - failure would have ruined his career or worse...however it wasn't.

Sadly, it was later destroyed by a rival family of the pope.

The man was a genius. no doubt.

It would have been nice if she (the arteeeest) could have got his name right....hello.

It's in the paper today Shaughnn - not good for us mosaic-issttes. Especially where the money angle comes in - makes it seem we are over paid...not always the case.

I can't believe she doesn't just say she was smokin' crack or something while she was spelling - and take the talk down another road. :crazy:

[jjwq8]

Sheeeooooooot

She must be bad if Americans are criticizing her spelling :D

[Shaughnn]

Jeremy,
It get's even more pathetic. Check out this latest installment in the continuing comedy.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2004/10/08/state1245EDT0047.DTL

Shaughnn

[Raymond S]

I wonder if she cashed the check for the other 6 grand.

[LonnythePlumber]

I think she will end up getting more money for her work because of the name recognition she has established. Her position is that word accuracy is not important to the overall affect of the art. Stupid to us may be profitable for her. And she didn't need to cut off an ear.

[Jason_Butler]

I'd hire her.....as long as there were no names involved. I wonder if she screwed up her own name when she signed it? :uhh:

Jason

[jjwq8]

The mayor has no cojones.

Reep id oud and soo da beetch.

Note the correct spelling :D

Alternately permanently pile a bunch of builders rubble over it and tell the world that the "artist chose the response", slag to accurately reflect what she is.

Does this woman not understand that in spelling the names incorrectly she is insulting those she seeks to celebrate?

Blame yourselves America. You are responsible for the "dumbing down" (another apalling phrase) of educational standards.

[jvcstone]

Have stayed out of this one, but after reading that the "artist" is now refusing to fix the work since people have been calling her names, (does she still get the additional 6 grand?) , I had to say something. As an "artist" who on occassion does some signage, I would be mortified if something went out misspelled. Even though I am generally supplied with templetes and wordage it is still my job to check and double check everything prior to putting chisel to stone. In fact, I am more confident in my own layouts than those provided by clients since I do use a dictionary when in doubt, and I have on two occassions returned templates because of misspellings. Obviously this gal is too important ( I haven't figured out how to get $40,000.00 commissions yet, and not sure I want too) to check her work before putting it together. Maybe she's so good that she doesn't need to lay out her work prior to installation.
Bottom line though, If something goes out of my shop that isn't right, it's my responsibility, and my nickle that fixes it. However, I think part of this is the responsibility of the Livermoor library and city council. Did they not approve drawings of some sort? Or did they just hand over some cash and tell her to do something nice? And why did they pay the contract in full before inspecting the work?
The "artist" may well be an idiot, but the city of Livermoor isn't much better. :bang:
JVC

[Steven Hauser]

Sod off Jeremy!!!

You guys started it by deporting your weirdos over here in the first place. We'll get it taken care of. ;)

:D


JVC-- That is why I have immense respect for you as an artist as well as a man.

:)

[Shaughnn]

JVC-- That is why I have immense respect for you as an artist as well as a man.

:)

Wow Steve! :laugh2: Did you just proposition John? I'm at a loss for words! :eek:
Shaughnn

[alygal]

Sheesh, where did this woman get her "artist" credentials?
People's Park in Berzerkely?

Can't stand the "I'm too sexy for my shirt" attitude of some self-styled arteeests.

Shame on her and shame on the city officials.

[jjwq8]

Steve
Now you know there is no sod in the desert, not even in oasisisisisisisese.

John is of course right.

Caveat Emptor

Leave us just hope that the city will properly reward its officials come the next election. Due diligence however demands that the contractor accept the liability and the council share the blame.

As to shame being on the lot of them....fine provided it emanates from a rectal sphincter.

[Steven Hauser]

:wtf:

Shaughnn,

Are you asking for an ass kicking? :sick:

[Shaughnn]

Steve,
Ass kicking?!? No, thank you. I don't like those sorts of "riendeer games". But I do appreciate being asked. :tongue:

Here's yet another in the saga of "art for art's saak"

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/10/09/MNGSK96KS21.DTL

Shaughnn

[cx]

Blame yourselves America. You are responsible for the "dumbing down" (another apalling phrase) of educational standards.

Yep, we are. :shades:

[RandyL]

Get a room you too. :noid: Who's pitching and who's catching? HA :yeah:

You spelt :rudolph: wrong. HAAAAAAAAAA!

[Bill Vincent]

Have stayed out of this one, but after reading that the "artist" is now refusing to fix the work since people have been calling her names, (does she still get the additional 6 grand?) JVC

DOES SHE STILL GET THE 6 GRAND???? Rather than paying her ADDITIONAL money, they should have been threatening her with fraud charges and suing her for the original 40!! I don't see where she gets off having a choice in this matter!! Jeremy's right in one respect-- the mayor needs to find him a sac with some nuts in it!!

[John Bridge]

And because of this we now have a Brit in exile telling us we don't know how to spell, a fellow who routinely places extra vowels in adjectives, adverbs and nouns and who uses esses in verbs when zees are clearly indicated. ;)

I think Ms. Alquilar must have a hell of a time getting her head through her door each evening. :)

But then again, have you ever been to Livermore? Not exactly a haven for art critics. :D

[alygal]

"No, I will not return to Livermore for any reason," Alquilar, of Miami, told The Associated Press in an e-mail. "There seems to be so much hatred within certain people. They continuously look for a scapegoat. I guess I am the sacrificial goat."

Oh good grief, my teenage kids understand weaseling out is not acceptable. :rolleyes:

I don't see what is so fabulous about her work, regardless of the errors. Not my cuppa tea as far as public art goes.

[Bill Vincent]

Well taste is one thing. Technically incorrect is another. If it were me, I'd have lawyers all over her a$$!!

[jjwq8]

Throw in some fire ants and you got a deal! :D

[jd77]

Just saw this "artist" and her situation on the national news. She didn't seem too bright.

Me thinks she will be doing the repairs for free :D

[Bill Vincent]

Obviously, she's not too bright, if she's going to do a piece of work like this that's this public, causing this big of a public outcry, CHARGING to fix it, and then getting thick about it and refusing to do anything about it at all. I have a feeling she's going to be looking for different work real soon.

[flatfloor]

If I were Smee, I might offer to fix it free of charge but then I'm not Smee.;)

[smee]

There was another article on this yesterday - seems the arteest will be fixing it after all....and getting 6 big ones to do so, if you can believe it.
However, she wants to let things die down before she comes out here.

oh, and flatfloor - I did actually offer to do a new piece for them - free. No bites. I'm sure others offered as well, and they were motivated to get this fixed, as it's already in the ground.

I can't believe her whole artistic interpretation crappy explanation.

I wonder how many websters she'll get in the mail.

[jjwq8]

None.
Self evidently she cannot read! :D

[John Bridge]

I think we ought to elect Smee as the official JB Forums delegate to go over to Livermore and kick her ass when she gets there. What do y'all think?

;)

[flatfloor]

I second that! :)

[jjwq8]

My quarry boots are in the post Linda :D

[Shaughnn]

Linda,
I'll drive you over AND help with the bail money. Just let me tell her personally what a hack she is before you get started. :D
Shaughnn

[kkowal]

i can't believe the city would even offer to pay her to fix her mistakes!!!! that is appalling. we truly are turning into a blameless society. :bang:

[cx]

Na, Linda don't need to be kickin' no ass, we need her to fix the mosaic. :)

I say let Shaughnn administer the ass kickin' and Linda can bail him out with monies we collect here for that purpose. I will be a generous contributor. :D



And I agree with kkowal. :(

[Bill Vincent]

So do I. It's absolutely pathetic.

[smee]

Well, to segue, I recently applied for a public commission for the city of SF (a huge lightrail project.) The process for applying is so involved. I hope I spelled everything correctly (ha ha). One good thing is if she applied I've got one less person to compete against.
Cross all ya'lls fingers for me on that one - I understand it's very hard to get public commissions - but once you do - things can start happening -

Of course, I'd rather have offers than have to resort to pugilism :bonk:

Problem is she didn't have this group - you guys would never have let me get away with 'enstein'. Jeeze louise.

I've heard that she'll likely wait until next year to come out to fix it. She obviously wants to let things die down a bit.

I'm still floored (no pun intended) by the fix it paycheck.

[jvcstone]

Good luck to you Smee in your quest for puplic art money.
It is a complicated and drawn out proceedure that often does not award the commission to the best applicant. :rolleyes: I gave it up many years ago when my proposal made the final cut, and was the one the project architect and contractor wanted. The final choice , unfortunately became very political, and the project suffered the consequences of that choice. :bang: Don't have the time for that sort of nonsense any more.
JVC

[jjwq8]

Linda,
Shame on you!

Enstein is a well known figure. He invented the ruben sandwich garnished with listerine on a crusty Italian Roll. This of course led to the famous equation E=MC squared. where E= Eatability and MC= Moistened Ciabata. He then trimmed and squared the sandwich to fit more easily into his childrens Mickey Mouse lunch box. It was a great success. His children never again lost their lunches to the school bully.

Jeez I despair of the edumakashunnal standards on this forum. :shake:

[Bill Vincent]

Good luck to you Smee in your quest for puplic art money.
It is a complicated and drawn out proceedure that often does not award the commission to the best applicant. :rolleyes: I gave it up many years ago when my proposal made the final cut, and was the one the project architect and contractor wanted. The final choice , unfortunately became very political, and the project suffered the consequences of that choice. :bang: Don't have the time for that sort of nonsense any more.
JVC

It's pretty pathetic when even tilesetting gets political, but I know what you mean. When my family's company was around, a good share of our work was government contract.

[John Bridge]

Never having been an artist, publicly or privately, I can only guess at the political ramifications of the Livermore thing. On the other hand, having indeed been a pugilist in some of the better bars around the world, I can attest that that approach, while it will often land one in the pokie, does cause everyone to sit up and take notice. :D

Linda,

I wish you every bit of luck in the universe on your quest for notoriety-I-mean-fame. ;)

[jjwq8]

Wash your mouf out wid coon stew gravy John.

Linda is already famous:D

[Shaughnn]

Well, I suppose this is a sort of ending. "Happy" or "Unhappy" will be decided after a few years of foot traffic have taxed the artiste's low-fired glazes. :crazy:
Shaughnn
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2005/08/09/BAspelling09.DTL

[Bill Vincent]

It's about damn time.

[cx]

I still think Shaughnn-Bob shoulda throwed some whup-ass on'er. :D

[Dog paws]

Don't look like she's paying her bills.
www.maria-alquilar.com/