Iraq

[John K]

Why is it that we can't get AlSadr and Zarqawi( or however you spell it)?

Can't Delta force or other special ops find theses guys? Or is there just not enough troops to handle the job?

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[skyshark]

John
Being a retired special Forces A team member, I can tell you this, If their exact loction where known, they would not be walking the earth today.
Same goes for Bin laden.
It all comes down to intell. If its not there, then it is guessing.
Remeber those people are really 2 faced, you dont really know who is real and who is telling the truth, you end up chasing your tail.
Cause thats what they want you to do.

[tileguytodd]

Besides, dont all them muslim terrorists look alke?
2 eyes glowing in the dark out of a cave mouth :D :D :D

[skyshark]

THats about the size of it LOL
I have abunch of friends that are still over there (SF types) and they have been searching their butts off.
Just when they think they have a location, they get there, and everything is gone.

[cx]

Remeber those people are really 2 faced, you dont really know who is real and who is telling the truth C'mon, Mac, don't be changing the subject, this thread ain't about the political campaigns. :D

[jvcstone]

Hi all,
The following arrived in my mail box. Thought that since this thread was about Iraq, this would be an appropriate post. I am not familiar with the author, nor his politics, but I feel it is worth a read no matter what yours might be.
JVC



I have been reading Thomas Friedman as almost scripture ever since I was introduced to his book, The Lexus and the Olive Tree, by a colleague. I use an epigraph from this book in HUMN 432 syllabus; he has always struck me as a centrist. I was stunned and amazed by the force of this editorial. Unlike me, this economist and foreign policy expert who has won the Pulitzer Prize, is no wide-eyed liberal.



Please pass this along to others who need to read it.




October 3, 2004
OP-ED COLUMNIST

Iraq: Politics or Policy?
By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN





Sorry, I've been away writing a book. I'm back, so let's get right down to business: We're in trouble in Iraq.

I don't know what is salvageable there anymore. I hope it is something decent and I am certain we have to try our best to bring about elections and rebuild the Iraqi Army to give every chance for decency to emerge there. But here is the cold, hard truth: This war has been hugely mismanaged by this administration, in the face of clear advice to the contrary at every stage, and as a result the range of decent outcomes in Iraq has been narrowed and the tools we have to bring even those about are more limited than ever.

What happened? The Bush team got its doctrines mixed up: it applied the Powell Doctrine to the campaign against John Kerry - "overwhelming force" without mercy, based on a strategy of shock and awe at the Republican convention, followed by a propaganda blitz that got its message across in every possible way, including through distortion. If only the Bush team had gone after the remnants of Saddam's army in the Sunni Triangle with the brutal efficiency it has gone after Senator Kerry in the Iowa-Ohio-Michigan triangle. If only the Bush team had spoken to Iraqis and Arabs with as clear a message as it did to the Republican base. No, alas, while the Bush people applied the Powell Doctrine in the Midwest, they applied the Rumsfeld Doctrine in the Middle East. And the Rumsfeld Doctrine is: "Just enough troops to lose." Donald Rumsfeld tried to prove that a small, mobile army was all that was needed to topple Saddam, without realizing that such a limited force could never stabilize Iraq. He never thought it would have to. He thought his Iraqi pals would do it. He was wrong.

For all of President Bush's vaunted talk about being consistent and resolute, the fact is he never established U.S. authority in Iraq. Never. This has been the source of all our troubles. We have never controlled all the borders, we have never even consistently controlled the road from Baghdad airport into town, because we never had enough troops to do it.

Being away has not changed my belief one iota in the importance of producing a decent outcome in Iraq, to help move the Arab-Muslim world off its steady slide toward increased authoritarianism, unemployment, overpopulation, suicidal terrorism and religious obscurantism. But my time off has clarified for me, even more, that this Bush team can't get us there, and may have so messed things up that no one can. Why? Because each time the Bush team had to choose between doing the right thing in the war on terrorism or siding with its political base and ideology, it chose its base and ideology. More troops or radically lower taxes? Lower taxes. Fire an evangelical Christian U.S. general who smears Islam in a speech while wearing the uniform of the U.S. Army or not fire him so as not to anger the Christian right? Don't fire him. Apologize to the U.N. for not finding the W.M.D., and then make the case for why our allies should still join us in Iraq to establish a decent government there? Don't apologize - for anything - because Karl Rove says the "base" won't like it. Impose a "Patriot Tax" of 50 cents a gallon on gasoline to help pay for the war, shrink the deficit and reduce the amount of oil we consume so we send less money to Saudi Arabia? Never. Just tell Americans to go on guzzling. Fire the secretary of defense for the abuses at Abu Ghraib, to show the world how seriously we take this outrage - or do nothing? Do nothing. Firing Mr. Rumsfeld might upset conservatives. Listen to the C.I.A.? Only when it can confirm your ideology. When it disagrees - impugn it or ignore it.

What I resent so much is that some of us actually put our personal politics aside in thinking about this war and about why it is so important to produce a different Iraq. This administration never did. Mr. Kerry's own views on Iraq have been intensely political and for a long time not well thought through. But Mr. Kerry is a politician running for office. Mr. Bush is president, charged with protecting the national interest, and yet from the beginning he has run Iraq policy as an extension of his political campaign.

Friends, I return to where I started: We're in trouble in Iraq. We have to immediately get the Democratic and Republican politics out of this policy and start honestly reassessing what is the maximum we can still achieve there and what every American is going to have to do to make it happen. If we do not, we'll end up not only with a fractured Iraq, but with a fractured America, at war with itself and isolated from the world.

[LadyGodiva]

Besides, dont all them muslim terrorists look alke?
2 eyes glowing in the dark out of a cave mouth :D :D :D


Mr. Todd, I resent that. I think my eyes look great! :D

[Steven Hauser]

:nod: Friedman's assessment, Political maneuvering and not focusing on what the politician is supposed to do. They all are focusing on personal gain. That kills it for all of us simple Americans. :rolleyes:

[Davestone]

It is not the critic who counts,not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled,or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred dust and sweat and blood,who strives valiantly,who errs and comes short again, and again, who knows the great enthusiasms,the great devotions,who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement,and who at worst if he fails while daring greatly,so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who never know neither victory nor defeat. He would in a few years rally support in America to fight Germany in ww1,which did almost nothing but get millions killed.But it stopped an aggressor for 20 years.

[jjwq8]

So now that Rumsfeld has fessed up about the bogus Saddam-Al Qaeda connection, how is Cheney going to handle his side of the debate given that he is supposed to tub-thump in favour of the "war on terror"?

Any chance he could fess up too and tell the truth behind the reasons for going to war? Like the amount his personal fortune and those of his Carlyle Group cronies has increased in the past 18 months?

[jd77]

Nice post, Dave :D Very relevant to today.

Jeremy - do you know something about Cheney that you can back up with fact or was that just a drive by shot :confused:


JD

[John K]

Here is a fact. Yesterday I paid 2.03 per gal for diesel fuel. Pay it or walk. Now that stinks! :cry:

[tileguytodd]

yep, Just got my Waste management Bill for my construction dumpster.They added a Fuel Surcharge.

Looks like every business is headed that way.

And LG, I'm sure your eyes look great,but then,your not a terrorist are you ;)

So, been hidin in any caves lately :D

[Scooter]

JD, Jeremy said:
So now that Rumsfeld has fessed up about the bogus Saddam-Al Qaeda connection, how is Cheney going to handle his side of the debate given that he is supposed to tub-thump in favour of the "war on terror"?

Dumbsfeld, when asked about the Al-Qaidea connection to Iraq stated this morning that he knew of no solid evidence linking the two. This of course, is contrary to Bush's doctrine, Cheney's doctrine, and the general reasons for war. Wow.

Dumbsfeld, in another stroke of genius, then told reporters 4 hours later that his comment was "misunderstood". Not misquoted. Not taken out of context, but misunderstood. I understood him perfectly, and quite frankly agreed with him for the 1st time in many months.

These guys are such spin doctors.

[Bill Vincent]

One thing the debate cleared up tonight-- it wasn't that there was no clear connection between Al Queda and Saddam, because Cheney illustrated during the debate that there was, in fact, a very clear connection, and showed what the connection was. What was said, was that there was no Saddam- 9/11 connection.

[LadyGodiva]

yep, Just got my Waste management Bill for my construction dumpster.They added a Fuel Surcharge.

Looks like every business is headed that way.

And LG, I'm sure your eyes look great,but then,your not a terrorist are you ;)

So, been hidin in any caves lately :D

Todd, Some might call me a terrorist... take hubby for instance, he has to paint the house or I will terrorise him :D

[Bill Vincent]

Well, along those lines, EVERY woman is a terorist!! :D :D :D

[tileguytodd]

And when he's done send him over here to paint my greenhouse and shed will ya,Ive got far more important things on my agenda like practicing my Pro Lounging Skills ;)

[LadyGodiva]

Lets set up an exchange system Todd. He'll come over to paint your shed if you come over to fix my bathroom. I'd say that's a FAIR deal, wouldn't you? ;)

Am I terrorising you now? :D

[tileguytodd]

Not a bad trade, I hate painting ;)
Fixing bathrooms is something i think i can handle :D