911

[Rd Tile]

Please take a moment today to remember those who are no longer with us due to tragic events 3 years ago.


Thank you, Richie.

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[Splinter]

My Captain at the local volunteer fire department was also FDNY. He was one of the first on scene, and was last heard from while on the 81st floor of the north tower... I think of him all year, not just 9-11....

[Rd Tile]

I'll never forget, lost 2 good friends working in construction that day, spent the next 2 months there cleaning up.

[opiethetileman]

Well god bless and best wishes to the new tower.



My wifes family lost 2 people in the towers they had 11 in there total.

[tileguytodd]

A very Sad event in the annals of History that affected not only the USA but all of Humanity.

[John K]

Very sad indeed.

In a short time approx 3000 souls vanished from earth. Imagine what the little Islamic extremist can do with a nuclear device. :think:

Mohammed must be proud! :twitch:

By the way, what ever happened to Jeremy from Q8? I never see his all inspiring threads anymore?

[Unregistered]

Very sad indeed.

In a short time approx 3000 souls vanished from earth. Imagine what the little Islamic extremist can do with a nuclear device. :think:

Mohammed must be proud! :twitch:

By the way, what ever happened to Jeremy from Q8? I never see his all inspiring threads anymore?

What do you mean by "Mohammed" must be proud?

Is Jesus proud of us for killing some innocent Iraqis too?

[jjwq8]

Still here John, just got home yesyerday after 4 very uninspiring months split equally between the US and the UK. I have kept an eye on things but felt too blahed to be blahed if you follow. I will attempt to take up the cudgels once more but I still feel as though I have been sucking sh*t through a sweaty sock for too long :cry:

Neither Prophet nor Messiah advocated death in his own name. It is the apostates to religion who lay claim to such achievements.

[e3]

well said.

[John K]

Hey unregistered,

Don't get so excited. I was being sarcastic! Its funny how people twist religion around to conform to their twisted thinking. :)

[Shaughnn]

John K,
3000 dead on September 11th is a huge tragedy, but it's hardly the hundreds of thousands of civilians who died at the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. It's not even the tens of thousands who died overnight at Bhopal, India. We have every right to be outraged by this attack on us and we should seek to prosecute every person involved. But shouldn't we also look at and address the reasons that such an attack took place? Comments like yours, even if meant to be humourous, about the conflict between Christians and Muslims do not serve to end this conflict. They only prolong it and make those 3000 of three years ago, the vangard of much more death to follow.
It's done and we will hunt down those who have done it. But we have to also work to diffuse the situation which WILL produce similar tragedies in the future. And the first step in disarming our enemies is demonstrating to them that we have the willingness to cease to be enemies. Um, I think a carpenter may have said something about that a long long time ago?
Shaughnn

[Bill Vincent]

Shaughnn-- I follow the same carpenter. But let me ask you-- would you then advocate turning the other cheek? You know damn well, they're gonna slap it, and slap it hard. They don't WANT to be friends. PERIOD.

[Shaughnn]

Bill,
I'm actually a scholastic atheist. Baptised in the evangelical tradition and left to wander the world and find my own way out of trouble. :D That's not to say that I don'[t find an awful lot of good-living advice in the New Testament and many other works of religious authority.
I agree with you that we can expect another assault. What I tried to express was that I feel that we should hunt down every LEGITIMATE participant in the September 11th trajedy and execute them without remorse. And simultaneously, we desperately need to work to convince those fledgeling terrorists and other's who dislike us for our policies and our legacy, that we are willing to meet with them and address their complaints which have inspired them to take these desperate steps of barbarism.
But I think also that you've missed the point of the parabel. When Christ advocated turning the other cheek, in no way was it ever implied that the violence being commited against you would end. In fact, it is highly likely that you will be struck again, and again, and again until the example of your determination to refrain from violence wins over your assailant. In some cases, the violence may lead to death, and the lesson will remain unlearned. And THAT is the true road of martyrdom. A lesson which is also taught in Islam, though it is currently not enjoying the public relations campaign that bigotry and intollerance are. Ironically, the same misguided vices have poisoned our own (American Fundementalist Christian) religious agenda. When we stop seeing a persons personal set of beliefs as a reason to persecute them, we MIGHT be on our way to getting back on track with that whole "love thy brother" trip that so many people hawk t-shirts over. When asking yourself "what would Jesus do', is your first answer, "bomb those bastards out of the stone age"? Probably not, but here we are fighting a war in the name of the American Chrisitan identity and there doesn't seem to be a real Christian ideal anywhere in sight. But not to rag on monotheism too much. The Hindus in India can't seem to get along with anyone else either. Dunno, maybe the Buddists have an answer? :wave:
Shaughnn

[jjwq8]

Too many sarcastic atheists parading themselves as good men and true for there ever to be a resolution :bang:

[Bill Vincent]

Well, I refuse to be a martyr if that means that my kids, grandkids, and great grandkids will have to live in fear of these people. They want two of three things. First, they want Israel obliterated. Now whether or not I agree with the whole promised land thing, I don't agree with destroying a whole race of people. Second, they want everyone in the world to be muslim, and third they want those not willing to be muslim, dead. Period. They don't WANT to sit down to any table want work out our differences. For them, there's nothing to work out. Be a muslim, or be dead. Period. So my reply to that is stay the F&^^&*@ out of my country, or be dead. Period. Anyone who preaches their kind of garbage, I'd rather just as soon put a bullet in em as look at em, and given the chance, I would. And before you get up on the bigot soap box, I'm not saying that I'm out to kill anyone with a middle eastern background. Who I'd be after are those who preach that the nation of Islam is all about killing those who are not like them.

Believe it or not, except when the Koran is taken out of context, the Islamic religion is probably one of the more peaceful religions of the world.

[Shaughnn]

Believe it or not, except when the Koran is taken out of context, the Islamic religion is probably one of the more peaceful religions of the world.

Bill,
The same can be said for the Bible unfortunately.
Shaughnn

[Bill Vincent]

I agree, but you have to go all the way back to the Spanish Inquisition, or the Crusades to find wholesale examples of where people were killed simply because they weren't Christians.

We're now talking today's society, where we're supposed to be a little more civilized.

[Shaughnn]

Bill,
This week the Smithsonian opened it's Museum of American Indians. I think you would find an opposing opinion there.
Shaughnn

[Bill Vincent]

Shaughnn-- Point is Christians as a whole left that behind hundreds of years ago. I don't think you'll find a REAL Christian organisation that's looking to kill those who don't believe as they do.

One other thing. I find it curious that out of that whole post, that's the only thing that you got out of it.

[tileguytodd]

Extremists can be found in all societies and not just religion based.
Its the Extremists that tend to cause the most problems.Most extremists are not also fueled by martyrdom.
Martyrdom is one key to the Extremists of the Muslim religion and the extremist leaders of the differant movements use it to forward thier ideals.
Christianity has had its instances of martyrdom being used also to forward specific ideals.One of these instances caused a civil war within the USA.
Most Muslims are not extremists.Most Christians are not extremists.
Unfortunatly,those Muslims who are extremists have the ears and the backing of many of the political leaders and have throughout History.
The Barbary Coast Pirates were government sanctioned terrorists extracting payment to travel the waters of the mediterainian sea.
This of course infuriated US leaders who refused to pay tribute money and caused the first US invasion of foreign Soil.Why did we invade?
Over 300 US citizens were taken Hostage by Tripoli(now Libya).
There is more to this story but suffice it to say that terrorism is not new to that region,weve been dealing with it for 200 years.

The idea of hostage taking and the killing of innocent business people in this day and age is barbaric and needs to be stopped.
Unfortunatly , stopping it falls in the lap of the stronger countries which includes the USA.
Do you actually believe that any nation should allow the continuation of terrorism?Do you believe that modern man should enslave populations and treat females as property just because it is what thier culture has done for thousands of years?
This is a power and control issue with religion being used as a catalyst to drive the masses(and these masses are men not woman).
Men in absolute Power who want to remain that way and see the western evil americans as an end to thier way of life which was barbaric 2 thousand years ago and remains the same today.
Its not the Muslim religion,its those in power that use that religion as a means to remain in control and absolute power and use martyrdom to insure they stay where they are.o you see these leaders rushing out to become Martyrs??
If you think there is more to it than that id like to hear it.
Most serious problems that cause wars can generally be reduced to this basic issue.Power and Control!!

[e3]

The problem is "they and them" is to inclusive....it is not Muslims ,it is a few radical groups....like skin heads , not everyone with their head shaved is a racist..not everyone who rides a motor bike is in the hells angels..(no offence to the angels just a example)