WWII History enthusiasts?

[Borsig]

New here and noted this forum. Im personally into ww2 history..

Not the politics, but more over the men who fought it, and the decisive battles, and mistakes and right decisions made by boith sides, particularly on the european theater..

I suppose I have the unique distinction of having two grandfathers, one who served in the US 29th infantry, and the other who fought for germany. ( I dont care to name the unit here. Sometimes, well it starts flamefests). The answer to the first usual question is they got along just fine. :)

Its interesting hearing accounts from both sides of the line, however, unfortunately, they have both passed away. I suppose it also leaves one with a unique collection of memorabilia....

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[Steven Hauser]

I'd love to here more about the differing perspectives.

What battles do you find most decisive?

[Davestone]

Count me in,when i get back later,we can yak about the insanity of the German Eastern front, the destruction of the Luftwaffe, the beautiful B17,B24Corsair andP52. I was in Landau in germany in the Army and got to climb inside a Sherman tank left behind by Patton,still on the battlefield. I'm gettin giddy just thinkin about it! :crazy: :)Oops, to be fair,The Tiger and the deadly 88.

[John Bridge]

I'm interested, too. I know mostly what I've seen in movies through the years and everything they've run on the History Channel. :) Like Dave, I had the pleasure of being stationed in Germany (I spent six months in Kaiserslautern, not far from Landau). I also spent a year at Mannheim and a year in France. While in France, I visited the Normandy battlefields including Omaha, Utah, and the town of Dieppe where the Canadians went ashore and suffered severe loses.

I had three brothers who served in the Pacific war, one in the Army, one in the Navy (Pearl Harbor survivor), and a Marine. All have passed into a higher order. :)

[Davestone]

I was in Mannheim too, 272nd m.p. co.,i used to love the barracks, were from WW2 and had swastikas on the knewel posts on the stair handrails.

[Borsig]

as for a differeing perspective.....

Watch the movie "stalingrad"...

According to my grandfather, it was the most accurate account of life on the east front ever recorded.

[Davestone]

Saw it, very good,most of us Americans never considered the brutality the Russians received,lost what,50, million people?Unbelievable! I think the scariest was those screaming rockets.

[John Bridge]

MP, huh?

Naw, I won't start. :D

[lazybumranch]

"I suppose I have the unique distinction of having two grandfathers, one who served in the US 29th infantry, and the other who fought for germany."

Pretty interesting situation. You should write your recollections for your future generations, and maybe mine! The job where I set my first real tile was a set of apartments in Vernon CT. Hans Hackner Sr. (Pops) was a great guy who was drafted to the German Infantry. For a short period, we also had a plumber on site who was US Infantry, and they figured out that thier units fought each other in some of the same battles. They too got along. It was an amazing thing to see them talk about the old days. Too much is lost when these great men go on to bigger and better things.

[John Bridge]

Jim,

No sense carrying a grudge, eh? :) I don't harbor any ill will toward the Vietnamese who were set on my destruction years ago. Soldiers just do as they're told. It's the politicians that ought to be shot. :D

[jjwq8]

Amen

[branty1uk]

My Grandfather spent 3 years in a Japanese prison of war camp, they did some terrible things to those men, he hardly ever talked about it, the experiance made him a very hard man. He came back from the war weighing only 98lbs, that was after some time in Canada convaleseing. He came back riddled with stomach ulcers, they finally killed him in 1982 when he died of stomach cancer, mind the 60 cigaretes a day didnt help, that was Grandad scared of nothing, not even dieing. He hated the Japanese till the day he died. He hated anything to do with the war, didnt watch war movies, said they were unrealistic, hated memorial celebrations, always said there was nothing to celebrate. He served in a regiment known as the 'Middlesex Braves', Dont know there official name, as I said he never talked about it much. All I know as 11 year old when he died I was very proud of him and I still am, I also still miss him, especially when my kids were born.

[lazybumranch]

I just finished reading "Flyboys", by James Bradley. James is the son of a Marine who was among the Men who raised the Flag on Iwo Jima. I will next be reading "Flags of Our Fathers", Mr. Bradley's first book. "Flyboys is the story of the battle for the tiny island next to Iwo Jima, Chichi Jima. Also mentioned in the book is G.H.W. Bush's rescue during the war. Like him or not, it is worth reading.

branty1uk- I would recomend this book as a start to understand Japan and the Hell your Grandfather went through. It is a real eyeopener to see what created the Monster that was pre war Japan, and it also tells the horrific story of the Pilots and Soldierswho fought the war.

As a WW2 buff, Pacific in particular, I am really interested in what the "Middlesex Braves" were-please keep us posted. I know of several Marine Divisions that were from my area. Almost like Gaurd Units, many Units were comprised of people from the same towns.

[Airborne]

Interesting to have kin on both sides of the front. No comparison to WW2, but I had cousins in the Royal Marines and Argentinian navy during the Faulklands skirmish. I was knee high to a Deuce-and-a-Half at the time so didnt really understand it.

[branty1uk]

Managed To find out a little history about them. My Grandad served in the 1st battalion of the the Middlesex regiment, known as the 'Die Hards', not the Middllesex Braves. Middlesex Regiment (http://www.prole.demon.co.uk/middlesex/middlesx1.htm#World%20Warii)

[lazybumranch]

Interesting to have kin on both sides of the front. No comparison to WW2, but I had cousins in the Royal Marines and Argentinian navy during the Faulklands skirmish. I was knee high to a Deuce-and-a-Half at the time so didnt really understand it.

I know what you mean by no comparison, I guess, but as someone who never had the experience, I am thinking if it was two people shootin' at each other, that is big enough to get my attention!

Do the cousins get along?

[Airborne]

They've never met, and I've never made a point of bringing up the connection.

[branty1uk]

Good job. Not the best of relationships, the British and the Argentinians

[branty1uk]

branty1uk- I would recomend this book as a start to understand Japan and the Hell your Grandfather went through. It is a real eyeopener to see what created the Monster that was pre war Japan, and it also tells the horrific story of the Pilots and Soldierswho fought the war.

As a WW2 buff, Pacific in particular, I am really interested in what the "Middlesex Braves" were-please keep us posted. I know of several Marine Divisions that were from my area. Almost like Gaurd Units, many Units were comprised of people from the same towns.
Just Ordered the book. He was in a the 1st battalion of the Middlesex regiment which was known as the 'die hards' which is apparrently where the expression comes from, the middlesex regiment.
His name was Earnest Cole, just a private but is ever an expression fitted a man ( the die hards) it fitted him, he grew up on the streets of London as an orphan and joined the army in 1936, to get out of going to jail at the age of 15, he lied about his age.

[branty1uk]

Its actually quite a cathartic experiance talking about my old Grandad after all these years.

[lazybumranch]

branty1uk-I went to the link you provided- pretty intense Unit History. I think we, as a whole, have become complacent in this up to recently secure world that Guys like your Grandfather helped to ensure. I see generations to come facing similar challenges as the world takes another spin out of control.

I am on the hunt for Flag of Our Fathers next. Let me know what you think of "Flyboys".

[branty1uk]

Im gonna have to get some more background info from my Grandmother, because I'm sure my Grandad didnt end up in Japan, I think he was in Burma or some such place.

[Airborne]

I think we, as a whole, have become complacent in this up to recently secure world that Guys like your Grandfather helped to ensure. I see generations to come facing similar challenges as the world takes another spin out of control.

I can really relate to being taken aback by the hardships of our forebearers. When I was stationed at Ft. Bragg, North Carolina my barracks was across the street from the US Army Airborne Museum. I thought I was all tough and bad until I wandered through the museum. It was mind boggling the "primitive" equipment and tactics used just during WW2 not to mention WW1. A stroll through there really changed my perspective on how hard I thought I was and built serious respect for my predicessors. :shake:

I wonder how we can pass on to the next generation how critical it is to preserve and enhance the freedoms afforded us through the struggle and sacrifice of those before us.

[lazybumranch]

Those that are willing to learn thru History already know. :yipee:
The rest will only learn the hard way. :cry:

[John Bridge]

"Those that are willing to learn thru History already know.
The rest will only learn the hard way. "

Tacitus?

:D

[Davestone]

One of my wifes' uncles was in Burma,must have been bad, cause he wouldn't say a word about it. You know usually a guy will say something,or let something slip,but Joe wouldn't say a word, even when i asked him straight out. He would just say where they were,and such,and he lost some buddies. His sister told me when he got to a Navy medical ship he weighed about 120 lbs.Her other Uncle was in the Army in ww2,Marines in Korea,and Viet Nam,had a christmas tree on his chest a foot wide,but boy get a couple beers in him and he thought he was Kerry! :D :D :D

[Davestone]

Eatin in a hot dog joint yesterday, i noticed an old guy sittin by himself fighting his meal,he was pretty feeble.I was sittin at the counter next to the cash register when he got up to pay. I noticed he put on a cap,on the front it said ww2 veteran. He also had about 8 citations across the front,most i didn't recognize,but i did notice the purple heart,and one with 4 bronze stars across it.I wanted to say something,but didn't,i kind of wish i had, now. :)

[John Bridge]

I've still got one living WW2 vet alive in my family. I have a brother-in-law who was at Pearl Harbor during the attack. He's 80.

[Davestone]

Yeah, my wifes uncle was at the Citadel,i still don't know where that was,or even which war,he was in all of them,he says :crazy: I read the actor Charles Durning was at DDay,and in Korea...highly decorated too,and says he'll never be in a war movie acting a hero,cause he lived it :)

[John Terry]

Im gonna have to get some more background info from my Grandmother, because I'm sure my Grandad didnt end up in Japan, I think he was in Burma or some such place.


If you dont mine me interjecting here, but my Grandad was out in Burma during the war. He fought under General Windgate, with a group called the Chindits (which is take on a Burmese word for Chinthe or the gauardians of the pagodas). I understand they were Special Forces - jungle warfare, operating independantley deep behind enemy lines.


http://www.chindits.info/

[jjwq8]

I had a great uncle came back from WW2 so messed up that he murdered his childhood sweetheart and then turned the gun on himself. I only learned of this a few months back. Family scandal etc.; hard to get enthusiastic about anything that can cause a person to do that.

Pop left Oxford and enlisted in the RAF ahead of hostilities thereby to ensure that he got a posting to his liking. Mesopotamia, Trans-Jordan, Palestine, North Africa. To believe his tales he spent the war as tourist visiting all the historic sites and regions that held him in such thrall his entire life.

I guess this affinity with the Arabs must be in my blood. Just one more wonderful gift from a man I will never measure up to or be able to re-pay.

[smee]

PBS in my area ran a two hour show about vets of WWII - I believe from the 28th - tho I could be wrong about that point.

the battle of Huerten forest? Again - not overly familiar - however this show was a documentary both with american soldiers and german soldiers. the were organizing a trip to meet eachother. It was a very compelling show. Very sad too. Apparently in this battle the US lost 33,000 men and the German army lost 30,000. I believe it was a six month seige and there were tales in this show about men going bonkers because of the incessant shelling - it was chilling.
I'm sure some WWII history enthusiasts could further educate me.

[Hobbit]

Good thread.. :)

Like most American servicemen (Dave and John, et al.) I spent a few years in Germany. My last tour there took place at an interesting time in the development of the modern Germany. I was last there in 1979 which, if you recall, was before the fall of the Iron Curtain and the Wall. I was an Army pilot stationed outside of Mainz at a small German airfield. Our "border mission" was to act as observers and to attack and delay the OPFOR armor as they attempted to move against the "free" Germany. I took an interest in the history of the area and discovered that our aircraft hangers were WWII vintage--the proof was in the holes still in the metal. All of the external sheet metal had been replaced of course, but the steel I-beam support structure was original. There were several locations in the hangers where AP rounds had blown sizeable holes through the beams. These from Allied aircraft attacks I later learned.

Just a few short miles away (by air!) the abuttments of the bridge at Remagen still stood as testament to what had occured forty years ealier.

Dave..I have a few stories about the beautiful F4U Corsair and one of the pilots who flew them. Haven't seen him in 25 years so I assume he has passed into a better place, although I would like to believe he still walks among us. A true hero in body and spirit.

:) :)

[John Bridge]

Interesting, Howard.

One of the places I was staioned in Germany was an old German cavalry barracks in Mannheim. This one was circa WW1. I was a truck driver at the time, and our tire shop was in a portion of the old stables. The living quarters and administration area was somewhat quaint. The buildings surrounded a central "quadrangle." We had a little chapel, a mess hall, a small PX and cafeteria -- also an enlisted club. Johnny Cash was there one night, even. :)

All this was a bit before your time, Howard. About 1963.

[jjwq8]

Next you'll be claiming that date is Anno Domini.:D

[John Bridge]

Maybe it was my spelling that threw you off. I've just changed Calvary to cavalry. No I wasn't at the cruxifiction. :)

[Hobbit]

Well it wasn't before my time, John. But I'll admit to not being old enough to be in the military in Germany in 1963. I was too busy hunting and fishing and carrying on out on the left coast. Didn't join up until 1968--right before I was drafted.:eek:

Germany was a good duty station. Of course, many natives there considered us the "Ugly Americans." And I guess, there was some truth to it in some cases. But they didn't hate us enough to ask us to leave! They knew they couldn't protect their borders. We were the only thing that separated them from Big Red.

John, tell me you visited in Luxembourg while you were over there...?? They are the friendliest people in Europe (towards the U.S.) without a doubt. Great little country. If you are a U.S. serviceman in uniform, they will give to you anything they have or get for you anything they can. I truly enjoyed my two trips there.

:) :)

[John Bridge]

Did the whole country of Luxembourg over a weekend. :D

Sat. night in Luxembourg City. Made the rounds of a few pubs. Ended up they thought I was a Norwgian because of my accent. As you know, the folks there speak about four and a half languages: French (official), German, English, Norwegian and "Luxembourg." :) I ordered beers in three of those languages in the same bar. Finally, the bar maid pegged me as Norwegian (which I don't speak). I was very pleased that she didn't accuse me of being American. :D

On the way back to Germany I visited the American Cemetary where General Patton is laid to rest. His grave is no different from those of ordinary G.I.s, just a white cross in the middle of one of the rows. You need directions to find it. :)

Yes, an eye-opening little country. Makes one feel real ignert. ;)

[jjwq8]

Didn't it make you want to take lessons to learn English as a foreign language?:D

[John Bridge]

Yeah. :) Another interesting area is around Strassbourg on the curren border between France and Germany. Those people switch languages in mid sentence. The might start out in French, do a little German and finish up in English.

And I was always impressed by announcers on Radio Luxembourb (which used to run hours and hours of American and British music. All the announcements were made by the same person in four languages -- flawlessly. :)

[jjwq8]

AM 208
Now you are talking about the station that furnished the sonic backdrop to my school days; tuned in on a tiny transistor in my bedroom trying my damndest and failing to ignore james marshall hendrix, deep purple and king crimson and black sabbath and zep of course to concentrate on study. To my eternal shame I cannot remember the DJ who played this magical mix of energy I suspect it may have been the late John Peel before he joined the BBC. Together with Alan Freeman and whispering Bob Harris from the "Old Grey Whistle Test" they are responsible for the musical education of an entire generation. Giants among men:D

[Hobbit]

Well Jeremy, we can agree on the music of the era, that's for sure. Who cannot fail to be thankful that Mr. Hendrix picked up a guitar when he did. Some of his early work was his best technically (IMHO). His later works were more showmanship and very affected. Black Sabbath and Led Zeppelin (and Eric Clapton and Bob Dylan I might add) are the true rock Icons of the age. Anyone who listened to music in the late 60's and early 70's could not help but stop to listen.

:) :)

[larleb]

To add my two cents, my Dad was in the 20th Airforce stationed in Saipan in WWII. He was on a B-29 Bomber crew that flew 36 missions over Japan (they were only required to fly 25).

He wont talk about the missions much but more about the plane and the overall effort. Very modest about the whole thing.

They flew on the first bombing mission over Tokyo and then the remaining 35 after that.

[LadyHilde]

I too had family fight on both sides in WWII. On my fathers side I had an Uncle that was shot down by friendly fire and my Mother was in the German womans air corp. She would help to spot enemy planes. She never would go to the air shows because part of the exhibition at that time was that they would drop a bomb and she said she had had enough of that growing up and didn't care to go watch it. I went with her to Germany a year after the wall came down to visit family. It was amazing. On the east side there were city blocks that still hadn't been rebuilt from the war and people were living in buildings that half of them were destroyed. The difference in going from west to east was like leaving Oz and going back to b&w Kansas in the Wizard of Oz. It was so colorful & clean in the west but as soon as you crossed to the east it was colorless, dark and depressing. There were few spots of color and those were the windowbox's full of flowers.

We went back again a few years later and the reconstruction was incredible. She passed away back in 2001 but I'll never forget her face when we visited her home town and she looked at me and said she never thought she would be able to go home in her life time, and she smiled.

[Bruce H]

Just saw this thread.

I have an uncle (now 92) who was a Marine and was captured on Wake Island. No one has ever been able to get him to talk about his experience, either on Wake or in the prison camp. I recorded a show on the History Channel a while back and couldn't even get him to watch it; I has hoping to get him to talk about his experience.

I finally got information on the battle from a new book titled "Wake Island: Alamo of the Pacific". After reading that book I began to understand why he might not want to talk about it. What a horrible thing those men went through. Makes my time in Vietnam seem like a vacation.

Bruce

[Bruce H]

Oops; book is titled "Given Up For Dead" (I think!). The "Alamo of the Pacific " was the show on the History Channel.

[Taylor]

Had the opportunity to see Patton again (the GC Scott movie) the other night....great movie....read his biography years ago, claims he could have ended the war in 44 if Monty had not drawn away resources.... The more I hear about Eisenhower, the less impressed I am, some Brit general complained in private correspondence that he seemed to spend all his time on the golf course.... Bradley seems to have been another great general, in a very different way, the antithesis of Patton and Monty....

"Damn it, Brad, I'm a prima donna, I admit it! The problem with Monty is, he won't admit it!"

And of course, not to take away anything from Zhukov, who managed to destroy the Nazis in the East while avoiding getting shot by Stalin....

[metalroofer]

Hi guys I followed one of your tile guys to this site. I am a history buff and couldn't resist looking. I'm originally from the city of Kitchener Ont which used to be called Berlin before WW1, it's a very ethnic german place still to this day. To piss-off one of my high school buddy's grandfather who was in WW2 (the other side) we would go to his house to watch the TV show Hogans Heroes' after school. Well he would rant and rave, start yelling in german at us. Seems he just did not appreciate the humor one bit. We would get kicked out and come back the next day to repeat same scenario all over again like it didn't ever happen the day before. We were lucky we didn't give the old guy a stroke...kids can be so cruel. Later met.