Sealed or not sealed, that is the question

[Roger3125]

My bathroom (see John's bath pics) was done in tumbled travatine. It was sealed with HD's TileLab sealer guaranted for 20 years (Yeah, right!). Many of you on this site express dissatisfaction with this sealer and offer better brands, which I will look for in the future. For now though, how do I test to see if indeed my travatine is truly sealed?

My own test: I took 2 extra tiles from the job. One I sealed with the TileLab and one I left as it is. The next day I poured water over both tiles and saw virtually no difference. What does that tell me.

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[Davestone]

I've never used that sealer,but my guess is it's cheap,any good sealer will be upwards of $100 a gal.Tumbled is hard to read on sealing,but if you didn't enhance it i would get a small amount of good penetrating sealer, clean the tile good,let dry 24 hrs. and seal it again before it gets too dirty.

[John Bridge]

Roger,

The reason no one speaks highly of the product is because it is cheap and doesn't work well. It's mostly carrier with very little of the good stuff in it. I think it WILL work if you apply enough coats.

On the other hand, you can go spend more money and come up with a better product.

[KChurch1]

Spray the tile and grout with water, if it gets wet, apply more sealer when it dries. If the sealer is keeping the stone/grout dry you are good to go. When you start noticing wetting of the stone/grout it's time to apply more.

[Jim Cuviello]

As Maurizio always says: travertine seldom needs to be sealed! That sealer is just going to sit on top of the stone and cause more problems in the future. Although, travertine will etch if exposed to acid based soils because it is a calcite-based stone let me give you an example of how sealers can cause problems on other stones. We just honed and polished a floor that was sealed and did not need to. The sealer sat on top and when they spilled juice, etc. on it the sealer reacted and left the stone with what appeared to be an etch. In fact what etched was the sealer. We honed and polished the floor to remove the sealer. Then spilled viniger, juice and katchup and guess what? No reaction, problem solved. We did another job that where sealer had been applied. It look like crap. Again a hone and poilsh solved the problem. At this point you should worry about the routine cleaning and the products you use to clean it. If you want some good guidelines, e-mail me. MB Stone products have some very unique characteristics that other manufacturers don't. When you have someone in the stone trade with over 40 years of experience and has studied petrography who developes maintenance chemicles you get products backed by real world use and not a lot of marketing hype. These products have specificly been designed with stone in mind and contain ingredients that only someone with extensive field work would understand. A color enancher is totally useless. Light colored travertine shows no sign of darkening with a color enhancer. jim@floor-care.com

[Steven Hauser]

:D

Thanks Jim,

Now, even Maurizio would tell you that tumble tiles marble or travertine will benefit from the application of an impregnating sealer.

The brand relevency is best addressed by what is available to the consumer in their market.

Tile Your World will soon be releasing a new brand of cleaning chemicals and sealers.

They are market tested.

People will be satisified with the results.

For the benefit of all consumers,

I have completed the same petrography studies that Jim refers to.

If there are any questions about stone characteristics just ask them in this forum.

We'll answer them.

:)

[Roger3125]

Gentelmen, I don't mean to sound argumentative but I seem to be hearing from two camps. One that says you MUST seal enhanced tumbled travatine and one that says travatine of any kind never needs to be sealed, just kept clean.

Can anyone straighten this me out on this matter? Thnaks guys

[doitright]

Hi Roger :)

Karen summed it up best. If you would like, do a test with a quality impregnator on your extra tiles.

Hi Jim :)

What brand name and sealer did you have problems with, and hone down?

I have never had such problems with the impregnators that I've been using. Anytime the customer created an etch, I have been able to address the etch, without redoing the entire floor. There has never been a single solution for any one problem.

As always test first! :shades:

[Jim Cuviello]

Steve,

I think you would hear Maurizio say that the application of the stone will determine weather it needs to be sealed or not.

John,

I does not matter who's sealer it is. If it is applied, the stone does not absorb it, if it does not get wiped off and allowed to dry you end up with dried sealer on top of the stone. This usually happens when a homeowner does the application. I am not going to bash anybodys product because there is nothing wrong with the product it's self. If you want to know who's they were e-mail me and I will tell you. In both applications the customer was told by installers and stone/tile reatilers to rip it out. Both jobs the homeowner tried to clean the floor with an impropper cleaner.

[John Bridge]

Well, I'm going to step in here for a moment. :)

About the worst thing that can happen around a place like this is to confuse visitors with a load of conflicting opinions, and I can't allow that to happen. Dialogs such as this belong in the Pro Hangout. That's what it's there for.

As has been stated, there is plenty of knowledge right here on these forums, and the fact is that many people in the maintenance and restoration business don't agree with MB on whether sealers should be applied to certain species of stone. Our moderators here have been chosen because of their expertise and because their views tend to be the least controvesial.

I think we can all agree that honed or rough sawn travertine (to included tumbled stone) will benefit from an impregnating sealer. Arguing that most homeowners don't do the job correctly is counter-productive to what we are trying to do here. We are trying to teach homeowners and do-it-yourselfers how to do the job correctly. Let's please stick to that mission. :)

P.S. Everyone is welcome in the Hangout, so those newbies who thrive on controversy can get their fill over there, too. ;)

[Jim Cuviello]

First, John I apologize. I did not know there was a Pro fourm and yes I agree we should not confuse homeowners. It is my ignorance not to realize that the fourm was directed towards homeowners.

At the same time I belive all homeowners should be given all views and let them do the thinking for themselves. If they become confused then thats okay they just need to do a little more reasearch and gain some more education. We would all agree that there is a misconception that stone is easy and it is as basic as 1-10. The fact of the matter it is not.

My statments come form a belief that I use in my business everyday. Don't sell a customer something they do not need.


"I think we can all agree that honed or rough sawn travertine (to included tumbled stone) will benefit from an impregnating sealer."

John, I will agree that an impregnating sealer will not hurt in this situation. I do not belive it is needed. To say that it is needed will be telling the customer to do something they do not need. In a sense they will be spending money they do not need to. This is what the customer needs to know. The customer applied an impregnating sealer and it did nothing for the stone, not one thing. Bottom line is that most impregnating sealers on the market are flourocarbon based and if you buy a name brand one it will do the job. The person asking the question used a name brand product. He did not see a benifit.

People don't agree on a lot of things. At one time everyone thought the world was flat.

[LonnythePlumber]

I also apologized :cry: not realizing the pro's forum is preferred for some remarks :tongue: . And the world is flat :yeah: .

[cx]

Geeeez, Lonny, you're a plumber, you're sposta say the world slopes an inch in ten feet. :rolleyes: