what to do...... [Archive] - Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile

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mtnbob
08-02-2004, 03:01 PM
Hi guys I've been reading two forums with projects simillar to my remodel project and I believe this is the right place to be:). I have many questions and will provide pictures of progress of this thread.

I too have a shower requiring a 4 x 5 custom pan on a concrete floor. I have already had the drain installed and the floor repoured. Walls are framed and the threshold has not been installed yet.

My q's are:

1) The drain was installed out of level on the 5 ' length by 1/4" fat. On the 4" width it's level and sets 5/16" above the floor. Is this a problem?

2) the plumber who install the drain used a Plumbing Products 2 pc drain prt#S34P. Do you know of anyway to convert it to a 3 pc or am I ok to continue?

3) The floor has non-structural spider cracks and seams from the new to old floor. Does this require isolation?

4) what material to use for the preslope?

5) My intentions are to have a non-return openning. I have been searching for curb patches but here in oregon nobody knows of them.

Today I am a general contractor (4 years), before that I was a machinist for ten years and then 11 years as an outside salesman in industrial sales before being a contractor. I'm thinking with my background tile is where I should put my efforts, hence my reasons to do this shower myself.

I am struggling here in the NW to get educated correctly. God forbid you ask another contractor. They don't want to tell you anything or they aren't updating their education to the new products. Most of these guys a unwilling to infom you for fear of training a competior. I feel very different about this as education is the only way to lower our liability costs and to stay competitive. So far I been reading books by micheal berne, Hd (say no to home depot) and anybody who'll answer. This forum by far has been the best. If there was a way to get educated here I will be sigining up!

Please help me out , thanks

MtnBob

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bbcamp
08-02-2004, 03:11 PM
Hi, Bob!

1) Yes. Your tiles will look funny and your floor won't drain right.

2) No, you need a clamping type drain. Oaty makes one that the big box stores carry. You will have to dig out your old drain fitting, but it will give you a chance to fix the out-of-level problem.

3) The seam from old to new concrete is a cold joint. If that's where the walls go, you are in luck. Just bond the preslope to the slab.

4) Deck Mud. 4 to 5 parts sand to 1 part portland cement. Check out Liberry for the shower construction thread. There's a post giving the mud recipe.

5) You can order dam corners from www.noblecompany.com Remember that the dam corners, liner and glue have to be compatible, so don't try to mix and match.

mtnbob
08-02-2004, 03:36 PM
My fear is realizied. Bummer. I gotta ask; can you think of a way to make it work? and; the seams from old to new concrete run accross the floor to the drain and back under the walls. The new concrete is several months old. More thoughts please.



1) Yes. Your tiles will look funny and your floor won't drain right.

2) No, you need a clamping type drain. Oaty makes one that the big box stores carry. You will have to dig out your old drain fitting, but it will give you a chance to fix the out-of-level problem.

3) The seam from old to new concrete is a cold joint. If that's where the walls go, you are in luck. Just bond the preslope to the slab.

John Bridge
08-02-2004, 08:12 PM
Hi Bob, Welcome aboard. :)

You probably have a two-piece clamping drain, which is fine. There is a way to get the top level, but it means not clamping the shower pan in tight. (I can see the Tile Ranger on the horizon. :D ) You have to cement the liner to the lower flange with gutter caulking or butyl. You then shim the upper flange/drain level and snug the three bolts. It works, but it's not approved by anyone. :)

Bonding the preslope to the slab with the cold joint is okay. Gravity will take care of everything. The liner will act as a cleavage membrane between the pre-slope and the actual shower floor mortar, so there won't be any problems there.

mtnbob
08-03-2004, 12:08 PM
Hey guys,

I have an idea :idea: and that is to us an inside pipe cutter ( mandrell with a 1 1/2 abrasive wheel) and cut out the flange, then install a coupling and reinstall it level. I figure if it needs to be fixed and concrete has to be cut then this is worth a try first.

After more thought I relized what bbcamp means by it not draining right. With the sloped flange and for the water to drain it would have to run to the low side of the flange and then down the drain. Now being the machinist I am I went back to the shower and measured the slope. It's not out by a 1/4" fat as I earler stated It's really about 1/8 + out. It's not as much but it is still out. I sayith to you "To leave or to chip that is the question"

What do you guys recommend for shower wall backer board? hardie, wedi, easyboard, verdie, durarock, I reviewed the schulter system it seems pretty good but I notice it's layered differently than what is outline in the TCA handbook. Is that a problem?

I met Micheal Berne at a JLC live show and have purchased his book. I read in Micheal Bernes book to use mesh on the preslope and mesh in a second layer (middle) of the final pan concrete. Is that over kill or necessary? I also noticed he installed the wall tile before the final floor float. Maybe it time to read JB's book.

Fortunately this is my project and not a customers.

Also do you guys know of any tile schools in the NW?

I appreciate your help. Thanks, Bob

bbcamp
08-03-2004, 12:27 PM
If you have a drain fitting with a flange to clamp a membrane to, then I think you could leave it alone. However, I don't think that is the case. If you have to replace the drain fitting, then fix the slope. A Fernco fitting would allow you to flex the drain to be level, even if the drain piping is not.

Schluter's Kerdi system is entirely different from any backerboard shower. It is a proprietary system, so you follow their instructions, not the tile handbook.

Residential showers rarely need reinforcment in the final slope. Showers on slabs never do. The problem with reinforcement is that by the time you get a layer of mud spread, packed and in plane, it begins to set. When you add the wire then the rest of the mud, you end up with a cold joint, with the wire acting as a cleavage plane. Two thin layers of mud are not the same as one thick layer.


Yes, it is time to read JB's book. :D

Bob