water hardness vs. limestone marble

[beat]

Hey all,
I was just running through ph issues in my head..no my head does not have ph issues although I do have my dull days and spicy days :D ..I just got to thinking that if vinegar removes hard water deposits and therefore some types of stone, and soft water from a water conditioner slowly would remove them also due to soft water being slightly acidic. Is one better off with hard water when it comes to a marble bathroom? My water here is at a 10-11 ph and anything less than 7 is considered acidic, right? If vinegar is 2-3 I am nearly as basic as vinegar is acidic. I just got to thinking as I was cleaning my new bathroom trying to stick to just water as much as possible. I'm curious to see how it wears. For the record, we live at the base of a granite mountain which is probably why the water is so hard here.

PS, just to set myself up for some laughs from low maintenance- big priority folks check this out... as if marble doesnt already need special attention... leather countertop, walnut trim..yeah, you guessed it, we dont have kids yet. :rolleyes:

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[Maurizio Bertoli]

Dear Beat:
I really don't quite understand your question. If you have a softner in your water, why do you have an accumulation of hard water deposits? :confused:
At any rate, you do NOT want to use anything acidic to clean your marble tiles from hard water minerals. Not vinegar, not anything else with a pH lower than 7. And even on the alkaline side you may have issues of non compatibility, if the formula of the chemical is not balanced in a way that the various components won't get dissociated by the Calcium Carbonate of the stone. ;)
If - and I enphasize if - what you have are really hard water mineral deposits, I do make a product that would remove them and be safe on the stone.
However, I have to use a few words of caution here: all too many times I saw situations that the homeowver had defined to me over the telephone as hard water mineral buildup, but to a closer inspection it turned out to be nothing but severe etching! :(
Before you run into my website and order the product I mentioned above, I would suggest you to consult with a bona fide stone restorantion contractor in your area to assess the situation. ;) :shades:
Ciao and good luck,
Maurizio Bertoli

www.mbstone.com

MB Stone - Education before any sale!

[beat]

Maurizio,
I didn't mean to pose a question about a cleaning product. I was just wondering about ph of water and its effect on stones like limestone and marble. I don't have any sort of build up of anysort or a water softener but my stone is only a couple months old also. To rephrase and put it more simply, could soft water etch? If so, and hard water could build up, isnt one better off with build up than etching? Then if water is super hard like mine is, what is going to happen a few years down the line? Of course we want to always clean with ph7 products, does that mean that most stone is ph7?
Thanks for sharing,
beat

[Maurizio Bertoli]

Beat:
I reckon I misunderstood you! :(
Stone does not have a recognizable and constant pH value. However, calcite based stones - such as travertine, marble limestone, etc. - are all on the alkaline side (Calcium Carbonate).
Cleaning stone with alkaline products is all right, for as long such products are formulated solely with bases, or in a way not to de-bond, in the case of an alkaline salt, where the predominat part is a base mixed with an acid.
That said, all in all, if your travertine tiles are polished, I think that you're better off with your hard water, rather than an acidic softened one. If you clean your shower stall often you shouldn't have much of an accumulation of mineral deposits. :)
10-11 pH on your tap water seems a bit high, though... what's in it to make it so alkaline, besides the usual traces of Sodium Hypochloride? :shades:
Ciao and good luck,

[beat]

thanks maurizio,
For the info on stone. Regarding our water ph, I am not sure what is in our water...I can only assume it has to do with the well from which it came. It is snuggly nestled between two peaks of a granite mountain. Maybe I can post a pic. I will consult you and your website more in a couple weeks here when the rest of the bath is completed. What you said about the hard water and routine clean up makes sense to me regarding limiting any buildup and confirms my assumptions.
I thank you sir,
ciao

[KChurch1]

Are you sure soft water is acidic? I always thought the conditioners added to the water to soften it brought the pH balance back to neutral. Hard water deposits are bad bacause you need to remove them with an acidic product.

[Maurizio Bertoli]

HA-HAAA, Karen!! I gotcha this time!!
(In more than one occasion I said that that woman is always right! And if you don't believe me, ask Jim, her husband!!;) :D :D)
There are alkaline products that remove mineral deposits quite well, thank you! ;) :D
You're right about the water-softner theory, though. However, that would work in a perfect world. Most of the time it happens that the water-softner takes the pH factor beyond the neutral point into the lower side of the scale. :(
Ciao and good luck,