Laying Travertine

[Rcircle]

I purchased a new small home in Las Vegas and am considering laying travertine tiles. I would cover about 1,000 sq. ft. of a 1,700 sq ft house including a kitchen but no baths. Tiles would be 18" x 18" x 1/2" on concrete slab floor on earth. I have laid many 12x12 ceramic tile floors in the past as well as 5 countertops and 3 showers. I have never worked with travertine. What should I look for in differences between installing ceramic tile and travertine. Also, I would like to make the joints as small as possible. Can traverine tiles be butted to each other with a glue (or nothing at all) and sealed rather than grouted later? Finally, is there a concern, or precautions to be taken, to prevent the more porous stone from absobing moisture or chemicals and causing discoloration during the installation process.

Thanks for any advice and insight.

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[Davy]

Hi Rcircle, welcome.
First off don't butt the joints, give yourself 1/16-1/8 for grout.
Go over the slab with a six ft straight edge and mark the low areas and go back and fill them in with thinset. Make the thinset thinner than usual and burn it into the slab with a trowel before rodding off the excess. The slab needs to be as flat as you can get it, you'll be glad you spent the extra time. Seal the stone after the grout has dried a few days.

[Trask]

I would use an isolation or uncoupling membrane like Ditra or Noble. I would also employ movement joints to allow for expansion/contraction within the field of tile itself.

Travertine is really nothing that different. Like any stone it is imperative to get 100% contact between the back of the tile and the substrait. Travertine, in particular, larger travertine will be riddled with holes and veins that could be weak and break if unsupported .

I agree that the floor should be as flat as possible and I would still use a large notched (like1/2") trowel. I usually use a medium bed thinset mortar when combing this much thinset around. I also flatback (comb a thin layer of thinset on the back with the flat side of my trowel)each piece befor setting it into the bed of thinset.

[John Bridge]

Welcome aboard. Please give us a first name. :)

There are a number of travertine discussions. Check out the search at the top right. The information is quite extensive. :)

[Rcircle]

Thanks for the response! My first name is Roy.

After reading through all the threads I could fnd (thanks for the direction to the search tool) my wife has decided that I will have someone else lay the travertine. May be best, as the mind is willing but the body may revolt half way through.

I note with interest several things to make sure are accomplished by the "professional" installer. Floor leveling of course, but some people seem to prefer "sealing" the tiles prior to setting, some set the tiles but seal them before grouting, some use grout realease some don't. And if you seal a tile before grouting doesn't that prevent the grout from adhearing to the tile? Also if you seal, then grout, don't you have to use the same sealer as at the end. I would probably want to use an "enhancing sealer" for the final step.

Also, this tile is going over a 3 year old concrete slab. Why would I want to put down a seperating membrane instead of thinsetting directly to the concrete. Seems one couldn't get a better base for setting the stones than a concrete slab in a climate that NEVER freezes (but does get hot).

As you can see I am a bit confused with these steps (none of which are necessary with ceramic or porcelain tile that I am used to working with) and would appreciate some clarification.

ps: Your web site is awesome. Who is responsible for it?

[John Bridge]

Hi Roy, :)

Pre-sealing seems to be up to the installer. I don't, but some do. I would trust the installer if he wants to do it. However, if you do intend to use an enhance, I would not allow him to pre-seal. The sealer might inhibit the enhancer. Did I say that I don't pre-seal? ;)

Yes, the floor has to be very flat for large format stone tiles.

Using a membrane is the ultimate in slab tile installations. Bonding tiles to concrete is not the best thing in the world to do, even though we do it all the time. Tile and concrete are never close when it comes to their coefficients for expansion (and contraction). Using the membrane gives the installation a bit of elasticity, which is good. :)

[Rock polisher]

Hey Roy, if you dont have anyone to do it for you yet Art in stone( his name is Ramon) posts here and hes in vegas. He sets all his stone in mud and it doesnt get any better than that:)

[gridmeister]

Hi Roy, this is Ken. I live in Vegas and have the responsibility of inspecting concrete slabs and sub-floors prior to install of carpet, tile, vinyl etc. To my knowledge there are a few concrete companies operating in Vegas. Campbell, Kukurin and MS concrete are the ones I've dealt with. Make sure that you check the floor for humps and low spots... especially if the area that your setting did not have tile before. if there was vinyl then it's a plus for you because vinyl shows up every shadow and imperfection of your slab. travertine could be applied directly to the slab substrate, but without a preventative measure like an anti fracture, you run the risk of a force transfer (stone shearing off the thinset due to movement in substrate and other factors or even worse, a crack in the slab telegraphing a crack across your pricey travertine. Try to use a 1/2" by 1/2" bead trowel, and back butter the travertine. make sure you use a medium bed thinset for the extra body that will keep the stone from slumpping ( mix it thick). I hope this helps.:D

[gridmeister]

I agree with Rock polisher Ramon from Art In Stone is amazing, I trained under him and he can set like glass. he is in high demand so be patient and keep trying to get a response. ;)

[JDiaz]

hi, I am new to the site and have been scouring the internet for any detail info on the mechanics of preping, cutting and installing travertine floor...

I have a similar scenrio to RCircle in that I have about 1100 Sqft of 16 x 16 creme colored travertine floor tile that I wish to lay...having some ceramic tile experience I am a little concerned since installing stone on a floor is usually for life...I guess you sort of "adopt" natural stone when you install it in your home...

My current floor is the standard polished terrazo you may find in South Florida homes...the home is 1963 concrete slab with terrazo flooring through out the house...

Any advice on how to approach the prepartion of the floor and the tiles...should I score the terazzo floor and will that ensure that the travertine adheres better?...what product brands are recommended for thinset & grouting the travertine?

Originally I was looking for any detailed documentation...sort of like a "How to Lay Natural Stone Flooring For Dummies." Guide book...but any advice would be great...

I'll be hanging around the site looking for more info. since I have this floor project I want to do and the 2 bathrooms I also want to travertine...

any help would be great!!! :bow:

[Davestone]

The terrazzo down here has aged quite awhile but may still have a polish or sealer on it, i would test with a cap full of muriatic acid. Drop a couple drops in a couple spots,if it bubbles up you can apply thinset if it doesn't you need to run a grinding stone on it just enough to take off the top coating.I would also tap around with a hammer for hollow spots.Then i would use a membrane-your choice-and beware, that floor is probably like a roller coaster as far as flat goes.

[John Bridge]

Hi Gridmaster. Welcome aboard. Drop by the Pro Hangout and introduce yourself so we can take pot shots at you like everyone does to me. :D

And welcome to you, J. Please cough up the first name. ;)

A big thing with an installation that large is going to be expansion joints (movement joints). First figure out whether your terrazzo is sealed. :)

[Unregistered]

thanks guys...the name is Juan Diaz...the latino version of John Smith down here in Miami...

yeah, the terrazo fairly old and I believe it has not been recently sealed...the floor is still very smooth due to the previous owner of the house being a single retired lady..no kids or pets...

even with the muriatic test..I'm still a little wary of laying the travertine over such a smooth surface...also, what kind of membrane are we talking about?...name?

you talked about check the floor to see if it's flat...I guess I can use a 6ft metal level layed across the floor...will the mambrane help level any uneven parts of the floor or do I need to use an additional leveler?

guys, thanks for the info!

[John Bridge]

Hi Juan,

To avoid having to strip the floor you need to sand or scarify it to get the surface off. Then you can begin installing tile using a modified thin set mortar. The membrane mentioned would be one of many designed to minimize the risks involved in installing tiles directly to a concrete base. The membrane is optional. :)

[Steven Hauser]

:yeah:

Hi Juan,

I'm with John on this one. Scarify it and since you don't see any cracks, just go ahead and lay the travertine to it.

:)

My .02

[Unregistered]

thanks guys for the replys...well I got some advice from a local installer about laying the travertine over the terrazzo...first he says to 'roughen" the terrazzo floor with Muriatic Acid wash...then after that is done, the basic technique to laying the travertine is to coat the floor and the back of the travertine tile with a coat of bonding agent...like the blue or white one they sell at home depot...then sandwich in between the coated floor ans tile is the specialized "thinset"...what type of thinset I do not know...

how does this sound to you guys???

[JDiaz]

sorry guys...that last post was me...

Juan

[Davestone]

I wouldn't use the bonding agent,i would use the multipurpose thinset,if you've checked and fixed all low spots.You have to see if the acid bubbles,then you can use it, if it doesn't you'll have to use a wax stripper to get to the cement to open the surface with acid so the thinset will stick.Bond-it will actually weaken your installation to any moisture,and you definitely don't want to put bondit on the stone,use thinset. You can use a thick thinset install, or a thinset small notch trowel on terrazzo,stucco mud mix1/2 to 1 inch then small notch trowel the back of the stone and tap them level.I haven't seen many terrazzo floors here i could thinset stone level on though. :bang:

[Unregistered]

Hi,

This is Scott from down in South Florida (Pompano Beach) and I'm about to embark on a similar travertine cobblestone over terrazzo project this weekend. I wanted to find out how your project is going (or went) and see if you have any advise before I get started.

The only major difference is that the areas I'm tiling were previously tile over terrazzo and I have pulled up all the old tile and mastic/thinset.

Thanks!